Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

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Shemtov
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by Shemtov » 04 Jun 2018 07:40

/u:ⁿǂàma/, a distant relative of Eroki Gǂama, spoken on an island of the coast of the island where the latter is spoken.
/p pʰ ⁿp t tʰ ⁿt t͡ɬ t͡ɬʰ t͡ɕ t͡ɕʰ ⁿt͡ɕ k kʰ ⁿk ʔ/
/m n ɲ ŋ/
/s ɬ ɕ h/
/ɾ/
/w l j/

/ʘ ʘʰ ⁿʘ ǀ ǀʰ ⁿǀ ǀˀ ǃ ǃʰ ⁿǃ ǃˀ ǂ ǂʰ ⁿǂ ǂˀ/

/i u ɛ ɔ a/
/i: y: u: ɯ: e: o: ɛ: ɔ: a:/
/ɔʊ ɛɪ əu əi/

/˧ ˩/
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by Creyeditor » 04 Jun 2018 11:34

LinguoFranco wrote:
04 Jun 2018 02:49
I was also going to have /k/ be a coda, and it still does occur as a word-final coda, but is altered when it precedes /t/, so a word like /mak.ta/ becomes /mat.ta/
I really like this part [:)]
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by wintiver » 05 Jun 2018 03:30

Shemtov wrote:
04 Jun 2018 07:40
/u:ⁿǂàma/, a distant relative of Eroki Gǂama, spoken on an island of the coast of the island where the latter is spoken.
/p pʰ ⁿp t tʰ ⁿt t͡ɬ t͡ɬʰ t͡ɕ t͡ɕʰ ⁿt͡ɕ k kʰ ⁿk ʔ/
/m n ɲ ŋ/
/s ɬ ɕ h/
/ɾ/
/w l j/

/ʘ ʘʰ ⁿʘ ǀ ǀʰ ⁿǀ ǀˀ ǃ ǃʰ ⁿǃ ǃˀ ǂ ǂʰ ⁿǂ ǂˀ/

/i u ɛ ɔ a/
/i: y: u: ɯ: e: o: ɛ: ɔ: a:/
/ɔʊ ɛɪ əu əi/

/˧ ˩/
I am especially a fan of the prenasalized unvoiced stops. Is the prenasalization voiceless? If/when the prenasals occur intervocalically are they voiced? I just think the stops are lovely as hell.

I'm not great at reproducing clicks though I try. I'm absolute trash at reproducing aspirated v. non-aspirated distinction on clicks consistently but I do like the phonaesthetic of it. Your vowel system is a gem too. I am a sucker for a back unrounded vowel.

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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by wintiver » 05 Jun 2018 04:18

Current language idea - it's been bouncing around and changing form.

Code: Select all

Vowels:
i   ɯ u
e   ɤ o
ɛ   ʌ ɔ
  a
Vowels can be short or long and they carry tone.

Using <a> /a/ as an example:

Code: Select all

Tone on Short Vowels:
a˥ a˥˩ a˨˥ a˩
Tones for Long Vowels:
a˥ a˥˩ a˨˥ a˩ a˩˧˩ a˥˧˥ a˧˥˦
Notably there will be phonation affecting some of these tones as well, I suspect the low peaking tone /˩˧˩/ will also involve creaky voice as will most long low-tone vowels. I need to determine this a bit more. I may also utilize breathy voice but some more thought will need to go into this.

Despite the intense tonal system I would still like words to be longer than monosyllables. Ideally, most words would be either mono- or bisyllabic with an extremely small few being trisyllabic.

Code: Select all

Consonants:
m n̪       ɲ ŋ
p t̪ ts tɬ tʃ k q
    s  ɬ  ʃ  x χ h
ꞵ            ɣ
    r  l  j
Diachronically /w/ and /ɰ/ were lost though the latter is a common allophone of /ɣ/ between unrounded vowels, and /w/ occurs in some dialects between rounded vowels.

Making an orthography for this would be nightmarish though. I'd probably end up using the IPA characters for much of (if not all of) the vowel system.

Maximum syllables are (C)V(:)(C), except codas cannot have /ꞵ ɣ/ in them

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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by Shemtov » 05 Jun 2018 06:29

wintiver wrote:
05 Jun 2018 03:30
Shemtov wrote:
04 Jun 2018 07:40
/u:ⁿǂàma/, a distant relative of Eroki Gǂama, spoken on an island of the coast of the island where the latter is spoken.
/p pʰ ⁿp t tʰ ⁿt t͡ɬ t͡ɬʰ t͡ɕ t͡ɕʰ ⁿt͡ɕ k kʰ ⁿk ʔ/
/m n ɲ ŋ/
/s ɬ ɕ h/
/ɾ/
/w l j/

/ʘ ʘʰ ⁿʘ ǀ ǀʰ ⁿǀ ǀˀ ǃ ǃʰ ⁿǃ ǃˀ ǂ ǂʰ ⁿǂ ǂˀ/

/i u ɛ ɔ a/
/i: y: u: ɯ: e: o: ɛ: ɔ: a:/
/ɔʊ ɛɪ əu əi/

/˧ ˩/
I am especially a fan of the prenasalized unvoiced stops. Is the prenasalization voiceless? If/when the prenasals occur intervocalically are they voiced? I just think the stops are lovely as hell.

I'm not great at reproducing clicks though I try. I'm absolute trash at reproducing aspirated v. non-aspirated distinction on clicks consistently but I do like the phonaesthetic of it. Your vowel system is a gem too. I am a sucker for a back unrounded vowel.
Thanks. The Language has its own thread: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=6684. I took Eroki Gǂama and reversed engineered the proto-lang, which had voiced stops (plain and prenasalized) voiced and voiced nasal clicks (Tone indicates original voicing, though intervocal /d/ with the first vowel being /i/ or /i:/ became /ɾ/.). The stops also had an ejective series, which all fused into /ʔ/ (In Eroki Gǂama they became voiced) The vowel inventory was pretty much the short vowels here, but with length and LOADS of diphthongs, which mostly resolved
into /y: ɯ: e: o:/
Many children make up, or begin to make up, imaginary languages. I have been at it since I could write.
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by Frislander » 06 Jun 2018 16:17

/t t͡s k/
/ɬ~l s h/
/n j w/

The lateral is generally pronounced voiced only when intervocalic, before a glide or when geminated (though some speakers realise this last one as a single intervocalic voiceless fricative).

/i/
/e o/
/a/
/eo/

The vowels and the diphthong come in long and short.

Phonotactics are fairly simple. Syllable structure is CV(C), where all consonants other than /j/ can occur in the coda, though with some restrictions on intervocalic clusters. In particular the clusters /ln/ and /tn/ assimilate to /ll/ and /n/ respectively, while geminate obstruents (other than /ll/) are degeminated.

Stress is rigidly penultimate, however there are three accent patterns that can occur over the final two syllables; high on the penultimate/low on the ultimate, low on the penultimate/high on the ultimate and rising on the penultimate/falling on the ultimate.
Last edited by Frislander on 10 Jun 2018 17:14, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by LinguistCat » 06 Jun 2018 23:26

Frislander wrote:
06 Jun 2018 16:17
/t t͡s k/
/ɬ~l s h/
/n j w/

The lateral is generally pronounced voiceless only when intervocalic, before a glide or when geminated (though some speakers realise this last one as a single intervocalic voiceless fricative).
This seems a little weird to me. Is it attested anywhere irl? In any case it is an interesting detail.

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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by Omzinesý » 06 Jun 2018 23:50

p' k' q' k͡p' q͡p'
p k q ʔ k͡p q͡p
ɸ x χ h x͡ɸ χ͡ɸ
m̥ ŋ̥ ɴ̥ m͡ŋ m͡ɴ
ʙ ʟ̥
ʘ

u, o, ɑ

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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by Frislander » 07 Jun 2018 01:09

LinguistCat wrote:
06 Jun 2018 23:26
Frislander wrote:
06 Jun 2018 16:17
/t t͡s k/
/ɬ~l s h/
/n j w/

The lateral is generally pronounced voiceless only when intervocalic, before a glide or when geminated (though some speakers realise this last one as a single intervocalic voiceless fricative).
This seems a little weird to me. Is it attested anywhere irl? In any case it is an interesting detail.
Which bit, the devoicing of the geminate or the lateral? Cause the geminate lateral is devoiced in Greenlandic as well (as part of a general process of devoicing geminate voiced fricatives).

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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by Shemtov » 07 Jun 2018 02:30

Omzinesý wrote:
06 Jun 2018 23:50
p' k' q' k͡p' q͡p'
p k q ʔ k͡p q͡p
ɸ x χ h x͡ɸ χ͡ɸ
m̥ ŋ̥ ɴ̥ m͡ŋ m͡ɴ
ʙ ʟ̥
ʘ

u, o, ɑ
Kitchen Sink and Minimalist. I like the idea.
Many children make up, or begin to make up, imaginary languages. I have been at it since I could write.
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by wintiver » 07 Jun 2018 19:28

Omzinesý wrote:
06 Jun 2018 23:50
p' k' q' k͡p' q͡p'
p k q ʔ k͡p q͡p
ɸ x χ h x͡ɸ χ͡ɸ
m̥ ŋ̥ ɴ̥ m͡ŋ m͡ɴ
ʙ ʟ̥
ʘ

u, o, ɑ
I was toying around with a hyper-strange and smaller inventory too. I like this a lot actually.

The sheer number of labials is staggering. I'd like to think dialects diverging and daughters of this language generating weird back-only vowel systems that have either /u o ɒ/ and then some of the other siblangs would have /ɯ u ɤ o ɑ ɒ/.

(I also love/hate the idea of a phonemic unvoiced uvular nasal. I keep gagging when I try to pronounce it (obviously I'm doing it wrong haha)

I was tinkering and I thought it would be fun to make an exceptionally harsh sounding language:

t̪ ʈ͡ʂ t͡ɕ k ʡ ʔ
t̪ʰʰ ʈ͡ʂʰʰ t͡ɕʰʰ kʰʰ
ɗ̪ ᶑ ʄ ɠ
h̪͆ ʂ ɕ x ʜ h
r̪ ɽ j ɰ ʕ

i̝ ɯ̝
e̞ ɤ̞
æ ɑ

Notes:
  • The aspirated voiceless stops are powerfully aspirated with a much, much greated VOT then we have in English.
  • There is an entire phonemic series of epiglottal/pharyngeals distinct glottals.
  • r̪ can function as a syllabic consonant
  • The high vowels are produced with audible friction, but just short of being a fricative.

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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by Frislander » 08 Jun 2018 17:23

/t k̟ k̠ ʔ/ <t c q ‘>
/ɓ ɗ/ <b d>
/t͡s’ k̟’ k̠’/ <t' c' q'>
/f s ħ/ <f s h>
/m n ɣ̟ ɣ̠/ <m n y g>

The advanced dorsals as palatalised to varying extents depending on adjacent vowels, with the greatest degree of palatalisation being seen between two front vowels. Similarly, the retracted dorsals are most uvularised between two back vowels.

/i u/ <i u>
/iə uə/ <ie ue>
/ɛ œ ɔ/ <e oe o>
/a/ <a>

Syllable structure is CV(C), where the coda C is restricted to /ʔ s ħ m n ɣ̟ ɣ̠/. After front vowels /i ɛ œ/ the advanced velar approximant is generally realised as lengthening of the vowel, while after other vowels it is the retracted velar that is so realised. The diphthongs /iə uə/ are never so lengthened.

Roots are either vowel- or consonant-final, with only a restricted set of consonants /t k̟ k̠ s ħ m n/, and where before consonants/word-finally the /t/ is debuccalised and the dorsal stops are lenited to approximants.

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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by Random8k » 08 Jun 2018 21:38

This is from Qianshogo, a protolang that I want to use to derive a conlang from.

/m n ŋ/
/b t d k g q/
/tʃ /
/s z ʃ ʒ x h/
/ɹ/

/i ɯ/
/e o/
/ɛ/
/a/

There's also a few other diphthongs: /ai ou/

Syllable structure is (C1)V1(C2)(V2)(F). Consonants always have to come with a vowel, and F indicates a group I call "Finals" (n, ng, zh, sh, and ch).
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by LinguistCat » 08 Jun 2018 23:29

Frislander wrote:
07 Jun 2018 01:09
LinguistCat wrote:
06 Jun 2018 23:26
Frislander wrote:
06 Jun 2018 16:17
/t t͡s k/
/ɬ~l s h/
/n j w/

The lateral is generally pronounced voiceless only when intervocalic, before a glide or when geminated (though some speakers realise this last one as a single intervocalic voiceless fricative).
This seems a little weird to me. Is it attested anywhere irl? In any case it is an interesting detail.
Which bit, the devoicing of the geminate or the lateral? Cause the geminate lateral is devoiced in Greenlandic as well (as part of a general process of devoicing geminate voiced fricatives).
I meant the lateral between vowels. I didn't know that about Greenlandic though in Japanese, geminates are almost always devoiced unless they're recent borrowings.

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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by eldin raigmore » 09 Jun 2018 00:13

I’m more used to an /f/ phoneme (for instance) being voiced [v] only between vowels, and suchlike things. Intervocalic devoicing is a new idea to me.

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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by Birdlang » 09 Jun 2018 00:17

My conlang from the challenge

/m n̪ n ŋ/ <m nh n g> or m ñ n nh or m ṋ n g
/p t̪ t k ʔ/ <p th t k q> p th t c/qu h p ṱ t k ɂ
/f s̪ s x h/ <f sh s j h> f x s/c g/j gh/jh f z s x h
/l̪ l w j/ <lh l w y> ll l w y ḽ l w j
/ɾ̪ ɾ/ <rh r> rr r r̭ r

/iː yː ʉː ɯː uː/ <ii üü ųų ïï uu> ī ȳ ǖ ǡ ū ii ûû üü ūū uu
/ɪ ʏ ʊ̈ ɯ̽ ʊ/ <i ü ų ï u> i y ü ȧ u i û ü ū u
/eː øː ɵː ɤː oː/ <ee öö ǫǫ ëë oo> ē ȱ ȫ ȭ ō ee ôô öö ōō oo
/ɛ œ ɞ ʌ ɔ/ <e ö ǫ ë o> e ȯ ö õ o e ô ö ō o
/æː ɑː/ <ää aa> ǣ ā ââ aa
/æ ə/ <ä a> æ a â a
My own orthography is a mix of Spanish style consonants with my own signature style vowels plus doubling for length. The h represents a different pronunciation based on an earlier aspirated consonant. The other one is based off of my own spelling systems.
Ꭓꭓ Ʝʝ Ɬɬ Ɦɦ Ɡɡ Ɥɥ Ɫɫ Ɽɽ Ɑɑ Ɱɱ Ɐɐ Ɒɒ Ɓɓ Ɔɔ Ɖɖ Ɗɗ Əə Ɛɛ Ɠɠ Ɣɣ Ɯɯ Ɲɲ Ɵɵ Ʀʀ Ʃʃ Ʈʈ Ʊʊ Ʋʋ Ʒʒ Ꞵꞵ Ʉʉ Ʌʌ Ŋŋ Ɂɂ Ɪɪ Ææ Øø Ð𠌜 Ɜɜ Ǝɘ

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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by Frislander » 09 Jun 2018 16:28

eldin raigmore wrote:
09 Jun 2018 00:13
I’m more used to an /f/ phoneme (for instance) being voiced [v] only between vowels, and suchlike things. Intervocalic devoicing is a new idea to me.
Oh shit just read over and I mistyped that, it should say "voiced when intervocalic", sorry.

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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by eldin raigmore » 09 Jun 2018 23:22

So, @Frislander, how would you correct this post?
Frislander wrote:
06 Jun 2018 16:17
....
The lateral is generally pronounced voiceless only when intervocalic, before a glide or when geminated (though some speakers realise this last one as a single intervocalic voiceless fricative).
....
The vowels and the diphthong come in long and short.

Phonotactics are fairly simple. Syllable structure is CV(C), where all consonants other than /j/ can occur in the coda, though with some restrictions on intervocalic clusters. In particular the clusters /ln/ and /tn/ assimilate to /ll/ and /n/ respectively, while geminate obstruents (other than /ll/) are degeminated.

Stress is rigidly penultimate, however there are three accent patterns that can occur over the final two syllables; high on the penultimate/low on the ultimate, low on the penultimate/high on the ultimate and rising on the penultimate/falling on the ultimate.
BTW what’s a long diphthong?

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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by shimobaatar » 09 Jun 2018 23:37

eldin raigmore wrote:
09 Jun 2018 23:22
BTW what’s a long diphthong?
Exactly what it sounds like.

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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by eldin raigmore » 10 Jun 2018 05:55

shimobaatar wrote:
09 Jun 2018 23:37
eldin raigmore wrote:
09 Jun 2018 23:22
BTW what’s a long diphthong?
Exactly what it sounds like.
I don’t remember ever seeing one in a natlang.

Some have long vowels, and some have diphthongs, but I’ve never seen a natlang vowel inventory that had both phonemic short vowels and phonemic long vowels, and also had both phonemic monophthongs and phonemic diphthongs; much less long diphthong phonemes. (Nor even long diphthongs that aren’t phonemes.)

Is, for instance, [a:i] or [ai:] or [a:i:] likelier? Does any natlang have two of them?
How about two or all three of [a:u] or [au:] or [a:u:]?
Etc.

If these things occur only in conlangs, that’s fine; but I still can’t imagine what they sound like.
Think you could post a link to a recording?

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