Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

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Porphyrogenitos
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by Porphyrogenitos » 10 Mar 2018 06:01

It's...really weird, but I could scrounge up at least tenuous precedents for all of its gaps/outliers from various languages around the world. It actually seems a bit Iroquoian.

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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by DesEsseintes » 10 Mar 2018 06:34

Porphyrogenitos wrote:
10 Mar 2018 06:01
It's...really weird, but I could scrounge up at least tenuous precedents for all of its gaps/outliers from various languages around the world. It actually seems a bit Iroquoian.
I agree re the Iroquoian feel. Tuscarora with a Cheyenne-inspired v instead of w. I could definitely get behind this.

It is definitely a workable phonology. Missing a /p/ is common as muck (almost a conlanging cliché these days), the vowels are spread out nicely, and it’s not ridiculously small. Go for it! And show us what you come up with. [:D]

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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by DV82LECM » 10 Mar 2018 18:49

Porphyrogenitos wrote:
10 Mar 2018 01:40
A language with the following permissible syllables:

Code: Select all

mi mʷy mɨ mʷu me mʷø mə mʷo mæ mʷɒ
ni nʷy nɨ nʷu ne nʷø nə nʷo næ nʷɒ
pi pʷy pɨ pʷu pe pʷø pə pʷo pæ pʷɒ
ti tʷy tɨ tʷu te tʷø tə tʷo tæ tʷɒ
ki kʷy kɨ kʷu ke kʷø kə kʷo kæ kʷɒ
   βʷy    βʷu    βʷø    βʷo    βʷɒ
si sʷy sɨ sʷu se sʷø sə sʷo sæ sʷɒ
hi     hɨ     he     hə     hæ
ɾi ɾʷy ɾɨ ɾʷu ɾe ɾʷø ɾə ɾʷo ɾæ ɾʷɒ
ji     jɨ     je     jə     jæ
Edit: Maybe with nasalization, or a permissible final /N/, or tone or pitch-accent. Yes, rather Japonic, I know. There may or may not be some kind of harmony process.
I find this wonderful. PLEASE make this into something.

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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by cromulant » 10 Mar 2018 19:01

9 consonants:
p t ʔ s m n l j w

10 vowels:
a ə e ɛ i ɪ o ɔ u ʊ

19 tones:
Level: L à, M ā, H á

Rising: LM à̄, LH à́, MH ā́

Falling: ML ā̀, HL, á̀ HM á̄

Peaking: LML à̄̀, LHL à́̀, LHM à́̄, MHL ā́̀, MHM ā́̄

Dipping: MLM ā̀̄, HLH á̀́, HLM á̀̄, MLH ā̀́, HMH á̄́

Most languages have more consonants than vowels, and more vowels than tones. This language presents an exception to both of these tendencies.

Syllable structure is hard CV.

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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by Porphyrogenitos » 10 Mar 2018 22:10

DV82LECM wrote:
10 Mar 2018 18:49
I find this wonderful. PLEASE make this into something.
Thanks! I wanted it to be a kind of thing where you couldn't know whether the labialized consonants were phonemic, or the rounded-unrounded vowel contrast was phonemic. Although I realized I forgot to include a series of syllables with no initial consonants - but that would kind of reveal my hand. So I decided the equivalent of a consonantless onset would be a series with onglides [j w]. But then I realized [w] is way too close to [βʷ]. So I think I will switch [βʷ] to [ɸʷ] and add [w]. Maybe I should also add a glottal stop series, thus creating a contrast between initial onglides, glottal stops, and other consonants. I almost want to add in a velar nasal, too, but I think I'll refrain from that for now.

Code: Select all

mi mʷy mɨ mʷu me mʷø mə mʷo mæ mʷɒ
ni nʷy nɨ nʷu ne nʷø nə nʷo næ nʷɒ
pi pʷy pɨ pʷu pe pʷø pə pʷo pæ pʷɒ
ti tʷy tɨ tʷu te tʷø tə tʷo tæ tʷɒ
ki kʷy kɨ kʷu ke kʷø kə kʷo kæ kʷɒ
ʔi ʔʷy ʔɨ ʔʷu ʔe ʔʷø ʔə ʔʷo ʔæ ʔʷɒ
   ɸʷy    ɸʷu    ɸʷø    ɸʷo    ɸʷɒ
si sʷy sɨ sʷu se sʷø sə sʷo sæ sʷɒ
hi     hɨ     he     hə     hæ
ɾi ɾʷy ɾɨ ɾʷu ɾe ɾʷø ɾə ɾʷo ɾæ ɾʷɒ
ji     jɨ     je     jə     jæ
   wy     wu     wø     wo     wɒ
Obviously you can think of [j w] and [ɸʷ h] as being allophonic pairs, since they're in complementary distribution, and would obviously be reconstructed to a single proto-phoneme, but for speakers since they're so perceptually distinct they'd likely be thought of as separate consonants. And I kind of want to have maybe an initial j > h shift, like in Armenian, at least at a certain stage. Still not sure about, say, vowel length or possible codas or stress/tone.

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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by Frislander » 10 Mar 2018 23:55

OK, Here we go, another diachronic post, this time focusing just on a consonant inventory (the vowels aren't completely sussed yet).

Old-X

**p **t **k **kʷ
**b **d
**ɸ **s **ç
**m **n **ɲ **ŋ **ŋʷ
**ɾ **j **w

Syllable structure was CV(n), where A coda nasal assimilated to the POA of a following consonant; **nj and **nw clusters coalesced as **ɲ and **ŋʷ respectively.

Middle-X

*p *t̼ *t~k *ʔ
(*b) *d̼ *d~g
(*ɸ) *θ̼ *s *ç
*m *n̼ *n~l *ɲ *ŋ
*β *ɾ *j

Syllable structure remained CV(n).

Phones in parentheses only occured before rounded vowels.

Sound changes:
  • Bilabials became linguolabials except before rounded vowels
  • Labiovelars became bilabials
  • Plain**k was debuccalised to a glottal stop
  • It is possible that at this point the alveolar stops were already in free variation with the velars and the alveolar nasal **n (when not in the coda) was already in free variation with the approximant *l
Modern-X

/p t k ʔ/
/b d ɖ ɟ g/
/s ʂ ç/
/m n ɳ ɲ ŋ/
/w l/

Syllable structure is C(w)V(C), where /w/ may appear after any consonant other than itself and any consonant may occur in the coda. /ɳ/ does not occur word-initially. Some roots cause the initial consonant of a suffix to mutate, like so:

Code: Select all

b, w > m
d, l > n
ɖ > ɳ
ɟ > ɲ
g > ŋ
These same roots also insert a schwa /ə/ before any voiceless consonant, while non-mutating roots do not.

Sound changes:
  • Alveolar stops finally all became velar, and **n before a vowel changed completely into /l/, except when after another *n. *s retracted to /ʂ/
  • Linguolabials became denti-alveolar, with *θ̼ further becoming a sibilant
  • The sonorants *β *ɾ *j underwent fortition to /b ɖ ɟ/ respectively
  • Remaining *ɸ lenited to /w/. Postconsonantal /w/ arose after some further sound changes to the vowels.
  • Nasal + voiced stop/aprroximate clusters and geminate nasals simplified to a single nasal (this included historical *nn clusters which would have otherwise come into the language as *nl clusters).
  • Remaining coda *n was lost word-finally.
  • Vowel reduction and elision produced some clusters of the form CNC, where the second C was a voiceless consonant. These were simplified by converting the nasal into a schwa ə.

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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by Creyeditor » 11 Mar 2018 01:16

cromulant wrote:
10 Mar 2018 19:01
9 consonants:
p t ʔ s m n l j w

10 vowels:
a ə e ɛ i ɪ o ɔ u ʊ

19 tones:
Level: L à, M ā, H á

Rising: LM à̄, LH à́, MH ā́

Falling: ML ā̀, HL, á̀ HM á̄

Peaking: LML à̄̀, LHL à́̀, LHM à́̄, MHL ā́̀, MHM ā́̄

Dipping: MLM ā̀̄, HLH á̀́, HLM á̀̄, MLH ā̀́, HMH á̄́

Most languages have more consonants than vowels, and more vowels than tones. This language presents an exception to both of these tendencies.

Syllable structure is hard CV.
Another solution to the same problem.

/p t k ʔ/
/w r j/
/i ɪ ə ʊ u/
/e ɛ a ɔ o/
/˩ ˨ ˦ ˥/ or /L M1 M2 H/
/˨˩ ˦˩ ˥˩ / or /M1L M2L HL/
/ ˩˨ ˩˦ ˩˥/ or /M1L M2L HL/
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by DesEsseintes » 13 Mar 2018 09:26

Something nice and symmetrical, based on a gleb phonology (the retroflexes are my own).

/m n ɲ/
/ᵐb ⁿd ⁿd͡ʑ ⁿd͡ʐ ᵑɡ/
/b d d͡ʑ d͡ʐ g/
/p t t͡ɕ t͡ʂ k/
/ɸ s ɕ ʂ x/
/r l j w/

/a i u ɯ/ + length
or
/a i ɨ u/ + length

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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by Porphyrogenitos » 14 Mar 2018 03:48

Initials:

/m n/ m n
/p t t͜ʃ k/ p t ch k
/b d d͜ʒ g/ b d j g
/f s ʃ h/ f s sh h
/w z j/ w z y
/l/ l

Rimes:

/ij ih in iŋ/ [iː ɪ(h) ɪn ɪŋ] ii ih in ing
/ej eh en eŋ/ [ei̯ ɛ(h) ɛn ɛŋ] ei eh en eng
/aj aw ah an aŋ/ [ai̯ au̯ a(h) an aŋ] ai au ah an ang
/oj ow oh on oŋ/ [oi̯ ou̯ ɒ(h) ɒn ɒŋ] oi ou oh on ong
/uw uh un uŋ/ [uː ə(h) ən əŋ] uu uh un ung

All syllables must have an initial. Both initial and coda /h/ are frequently dropped, appearing mainly as a linking/intrusive consonant.

Voiceless stops are aspirated, especially in stressed syllables. Voiced stops may be only weakly voiced or even fully devoiced in some contexts.

/z/ may sometimes be [ʐ] or even [ɻ]. /w/ and /j/ are true semivowels, but in many contexts pattern as the voiced counterparts of /f/ and /ʃ/.

/a/ is a true front [a], just a little less high and front than English [æ].

As can be seen, all non-low vowels have a lax allophone that appears before non-glide codas. One may take a more superficial analysis of the vowel system as phonemic, with a set of vowels appearing in closed syllables and a set appearing in open syllables:

Closed:

/ɪ ɛ a ɒ ə/

Open:

/iː ei̯ ai̯ au̯ ou̯ oi̯ uː/

There is no tone, though stress may be phonemic.

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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by Creyeditor » 14 Mar 2018 08:51

DesEsseintes wrote:
13 Mar 2018 09:26
(the retroflexes are my own).
All your retroflex are belong to us.
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by DesEsseintes » 26 Mar 2018 19:20

Consonants for something still in its earliest conception:

/m n ŋ/
/m̥ n̥ ŋ̊/
/ᵐb ⁿd ⁿd͡ɮ ᵑɡ/
/p t k/
/ʰp ʰt ʰk/
/ɸ θ ɬ h/
/l j/

To be served with 5 to 7 vowels and their manifold diphthongoid spawn.

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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by Parlox » 26 Mar 2018 21:15

DesEsseintes wrote:
26 Mar 2018 19:20
Consonants for something still in its earliest conception:

/m n ŋ/
/m̥ n̥ ŋ̊/
/ᵐb ⁿd ⁿd͡ɮ ᵑɡ/
/p t k/
/ʰp ʰt ʰk/
/ɸ θ ɬ h/
/l j/

To be served with 5 to 7 vowels and their manifold diphthongoid spawn.
I love it! Could I use a modified version? (I would be adding more nasals and removing the preaspirated stops)
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  • :con: Bàsupan, loosely inspired by Amharic.
  • :con: Oddúhath Claire, a fusion of Welsh and Arabic.

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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by Davush » 26 Mar 2018 21:50

DesEsseintes wrote:
26 Mar 2018 19:20
Consonants for something still in its earliest conception:

/m n ŋ/
/m̥ n̥ ŋ̊/
/ᵐb ⁿd ⁿd͡ɮ ᵑɡ/
/p t k/
/ʰp ʰt ʰk/
/ɸ θ ɬ h/
/l j/

To be served with 5 to 7 vowels and their manifold diphthongoid spawn.
That is a nice phonology! But the question is...what happened to Núta? [:D]

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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by CarsonDaConlanger » 27 Mar 2018 03:56

Plosive /p b mb ɓ t d nd ɗ tʂ dȥ k ŋg/ p b m ƀ t d n đ c j k g
Fricative /f s z z̃ ʂ ȥ ȥ̃ x h/ f s z zn ś ź źn ḥ h
Approximant /l ɻ j w/ l ḍ y w
Trill /r/ r

vowel
i u
e o
a
+nasal

The only consonants allowed in the coda are /mb nd ŋg/ which collapse to m n ŋ and /j w/
Last edited by CarsonDaConlanger on 27 Mar 2018 12:37, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by DesEsseintes » 27 Mar 2018 04:56

Parlox wrote:
26 Mar 2018 21:15
DesEsseintes wrote:
26 Mar 2018 19:20
Consonants for something still in its earliest conception:

/m n ŋ/
/m̥ n̥ ŋ̊/
/ᵐb ⁿd ⁿd͡ɮ ᵑɡ/
/p t k/
/ʰp ʰt ʰk/
/ɸ θ ɬ h/
/l j/

To be served with 5 to 7 vowels and their manifold diphthongoid spawn.
I love it! Could I use a modified version? (I would be adding more nasals and removing the preaspirated stops)
[<3] Glad you like it! I don’t really mind you using a modified version (or unmodified for that matter), but I’d be interested to see what you come up with then.
Davush wrote:
26 Mar 2018 21:50
That is a nice phonology! But the question is...what happened to Núta? [:D]
What is Núta?
Spoiler:
Jokes aside, I haven’t shelved Núta entirely, but its creation precipitated new ideas for literally all my older conlangs so I’ve been frantically adding bits and pieces to Híí, Proto-Híí, Apwapɨrɨng, and TLFKAT. I was then going to start tweaking old Nınuıntı but decided to use the ideas I came up with for a new lang and leave Nınuıntı be.

And so this was born.

I plan to continue working on Núta in the next relay.

Glad you liked the phonology! [:)]

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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by Davush » 27 Mar 2018 13:43

DesEsseintes wrote:
27 Mar 2018 04:56

Spoiler:
Jokes aside, I haven’t shelved Núta entirely, but its creation precipitated new ideas for literally all my older conlangs so I’ve been frantically adding bits and pieces to Híí, Proto-Híí, Apwapɨrɨng, and TLFKAT. I was then going to start tweaking old Nınuıntı but decided to use the ideas I came up with for a new lang and leave Nınuıntı be.

And so this was born.

I plan to continue working on Núta in the next relay.

Glad you liked the phonology! [:)]
I'll let you off then, since Híí is so charming. [;)]

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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by Vlürch » 30 Mar 2018 11:11

Some ugly minimalism:

/b̥ˀ/ <p>
/h̃/ <n>
/ɺ/ <l>

/a i u/ <a i u>

/b̥ˀ/ is [ɓ] word-initially, [◌̰w̰] intervocalically and [◌̰pʼ] word-finally
/h̃/ is [h] word-initially, [◌̃n] intervocalically and [◌̃h] word-finally
/ɺ/ is [l] word-initially, [ɾ] intervocalically and [◌̠ɭ] word-finally

[a̰w̰a ḭw̰a ṵw̰a] -> [ɑ̰w̰ə ɪ̰ɠʷə ʊ̰ʔʷə]
[a̰w̰i ḭw̰i ṵw̰i] -> [æ̰ʄʷɪ ḭʄʷɪ ʉ̰ʄʷɪ]
[a̰w̰u ḭw̰u ṵw̰u] -> [ɑ̰w̰ʊ ɨ̰ɓʊ ʊ̰ɓʊ]
[ha hi hu] -> [ħæ çi xu]
[ãna ĩna ũna] -> [ɑ̃ŋɑ ẽɲæ õnə]
[ãni ĩni ũni] -> [ãɲi ẽɲi œ̃ɲi]
[ãnu ĩnu ũnu] -> [ɑ̃ŋu ẽɲu õnu]
[ãh ĩh ũh] -> [æ̃ħ ẽç õχ]
[la li lu] -> [lə ʎi ɫ̪u]
[a̠ɭ i̠ɭ u̠ɭ] -> [ɑɭ ɯɭ uː]

panilup ipin lap lil palanupan nul [ɓãɲiɫ̪ṵpʼ ḭʄʷẽç lə̰pʼ ʎɯɭ ɓɑlɑ̃ŋʊ̰ɠʷæ̃ħ xuː]

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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by DV82LECM » 30 Mar 2018 14:05

Wow.

If I were the type to take offense (*other me* "I promise that he's working on it..."), I would think you were poking fun at my current project. :P

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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by Creyeditor » 30 Mar 2018 14:07

Why ugly? No kidding, the IPA notation here: [a̰w̰a ḭw̰a ṵw̰a] looks very aesthetically pleasing [:)]
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by Zekoslav » 30 Mar 2018 15:54

This is a phonology I came up with this week:


consonants: /p t s k b d z g m n ŋ/ <p t s k b d z g m n ng>

vowels: /i u ə a əi̯ əu̯ ai̯ au̯/ <i u ä a äi äu ai au>

syllable structure: (C)V(C)

Morpheme-internally, only the following clusters are allowed: /mp nt ŋk mb nd ŋg tk sk dg zg/ <mp nt ngk mb nd ngg tk sk dg zg> Any combination of consonants is allowed in compound words, reduplicated words and with clitics.

Allophony:

/t/ /d/ and /n/ are apical alveolar, while /s/ and /z/ are laminal.

/b/ and /g/ sporadically become [β] and [ɣ] when preceded by a vowel.

/d/ and /n/ regularily become [ɾ] and [ɾ̃] when intervocalic.

/tk/ and /dg/ are pronounced [ɾ̥k] and [ɾg].

Word finally, the opposition of voicing is lost. Voiceless consonants appear in front of a pause and in front of another voiceless consonant, while voiced consonants (with their appropriate allophones) appear in all other positions.

/ə/ exists both when stressed and unstressed, and is rather high.

Vowels may become nasalized when surrounded by nasals.

I'm waiting till I get grammar ideas to flesh this out into a proper conlang. [:D]
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