Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

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Parlox
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by Parlox » 17 Sep 2017 21:44

An idea i had,

/n ŋ/
/p t d t̪ d̪ ʈ ɖ k g/
/s z sʷ zʷ sʼ/
/f v ɹ/
/ɓ ɗ̥ ɗ ᶑ̥ ᶑ ʄ̥ ʄ ɠ̊ ɠ/
/ǃ ǃʷ t͡ǃ ǃ˞ /

/i ɪ ɯ/
/ɤ/
/a ɑ/

The syllable structure is (C)V(P), where C is any consonant, V is any vowel, and P is a consonant that isn't an implosive.
  • :con: Cajun, a descendant of French spoken in Louisiana.
  • :con: Bàsupan, loosely inspired by Amharic.
  • :con: Oddúhath Claire, a fusion of Welsh and Arabic.

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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by Ashtăr Balynestjăr » 17 Sep 2017 22:16

I'm not sure if syllable-final clicks are even possible, let alone attested anywhere...
[ˈaʃt̪əɹ ˈbalɨˌnɛsʲtʲəɹ]

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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by Frislander » 17 Sep 2017 22:23

Ashtăr Balynestjăr wrote:I'm not sure if syllable-final clicks are even possible, let alone attested anywhere...
They're perfectly pronounceable syllable-finally, and I've said elsewhere that I believe the only reason they're not found is because the click languages are found in coda-phobic Sub-Saharan-Africa.
Last edited by Frislander on 17 Sep 2017 23:05, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by Creyeditor » 17 Sep 2017 23:00

In the sense that they are found in the part of Africa that is coda-phobic, right?
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by Frislander » 17 Sep 2017 23:04

Creyeditor wrote:In the sense that they are found in the part of Africa that is coda-phobic, right?
Indeed, probably should have said "Sub-Saharan Africa" instead.

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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by DesEsseintes » 18 Sep 2017 02:34

Frislander wrote:
Ashtăr Balynestjăr wrote:I'm not sure if syllable-final clicks are even possible, let alone attested anywhere...
They're perfectly pronounceable syllable-finally, and I've said elsewhere that I believe the only reason they're not found is because the click languages are found in coda-phobic Sub-Saharan-Africa.
If coda ejectives can occur, I don't really see any reason for coda clicks not to occur. Hmm, Salishan with clicks...

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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by LinguoFranco » 18 Sep 2017 14:23

/t d k g c/
/m n ɲ/
/s z f v h ɦ/
/l ɾ/
/j/
/ts tʃ dʒ/

/i u/
/e o/
/æ ɑ/

I might make a few tweaks as I am somewhat unsatisfied with the fricative inventory, and I am uncertain whether I like /h/ or /x/ better. I'm also debating whether or not to include /ɟ/ as an independent phoneme.

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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by gach » 18 Sep 2017 14:53

Frislander wrote:They're perfectly pronounceable syllable-finally, and I've said elsewhere that I believe the only reason they're not found is because the click languages are found in coda-phobic Sub-Saharan-Africa.
Typical Khoesan phonotactics isn't even that fond of word medial consonants, so it's no wonder that the attested distribution of clicks is strongly weighted towards the start of the word.

Speaking of clicks, I started toying last week with the idea of giving some of my more ejective happy Seic languages a couple of scattered clicks that occur in a handful of ideophones in free variation with ejectives. That would be to see what sort of things you can do with onomatopoeic clicks in a linguistic environment which otherwise lacks them as speech sounds. The clicks would be glottalic and freely nasalised so that the alternation with ejectives sometimes includes an /n/ before the ejective and sometimes not,

/(ŋ)ǀ' ~ ts' ~ Vnts'/ – ǀ' ~ c' ~ Vnc'
/(ŋ)ǁ' ~ tɬ' ~ Vntɬ'/ – ǁ' ~ ƛ' ~ Vnƛ'

Hence, you could get words like

ǀ'is ~ c'is, ideophone for "a little", and
ǁ'ap ~ ƛ'ap ~ anƛ'ap, "the sound of squelching mud"

The other side of this idea is to work out how much will I let the ideophones participate in the regular sentence morphosyntax. C'is sounds like a perfectly good adverb for "a little" but this could go as far as allowing ƛ'ap ~ anƛ'ap to be used as an inflected verb meaning "to wade in mud". The two click allophones would normally be restricted to the ideophones used outside normal sentences, but maybe there could be some rare cases of them sneaking within a sentence. Especially letting the allomorph ǁ'ap be used as a stem for inflected verb forms would be an interesting case of clicks approaching the status of regular phonemes.

I'll have to continue by reading what this paper has to say about the click /ŋǀ/ in Digo ideophones but I'd also appreciate if anyone knows of any more literature on clicks used in ideophones in otherwise non-click languages.

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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by Porphyrogenitos » 18 Sep 2017 17:31

A phonology based on a hypothetical extension of vowel trends in my own variety of AmEng. (The consonant stuff is kinda made up.)

Syllable structure:

Code: Select all

     (C)
     / \
   /     \
  V       R
 / \     / \
C  R    C   V
   |       / \
   C      C   R
              |
              C
I got too confused trying to display this with parentheses. You can go down any one pathway as far as you like to define the structure of a syllable. If that makes sense?

Obstruents: (C)

/p t tʃ k/
/b d dʒ g/
/f θ s ʃ/
/v ð z ʒ/

Glides: (R)

Glides may begin a syllable or follow an obstruent. (However, /j/ may not follow a palatoalveolar, /l/ may not follow an alveolar, and nasals may not follow a homorganic stop or affricate.) However, after a vowel, glides always form a coda offglide. Glides may be syllabic; however, syllabic /w j/ merge with the vowels /i u/, and syllabic /m n l r/ merge with the dipthongs /əm ən əl ər/.

/m n/
/r l/
/w j/

Vowels: (V)

There are seven vowels and five corresponding series of dipthongs, formed with the glides. The second ("tense" or "extended") series is formed by adding /w/ to back vowels and /j/ to non-back vowels.

/i ij il ir in im/
/e ej el er en em/
/æ æj æl ær æn æm/
/ə əj əl ər ən əm/
/ɑ ɑw ɑl ɑr ɑn ɑm/
/o ow ol or on om/
/u uw ul ur un um/

A sampling of words:

thnuiel /θnuj.(ə)l/
badn /bæd.(ə)n/
eláiens /(ə)l.ɑj.(ə)ns/
shuélch /ʃweltʃ/
iui /juj/
ualaii /wæl.æj.i/
dmerdi /dm(ə)r.di/
termenel /t(ə)r.m(ə)n.(ə)l/
ket /kət/
teit /təjt/

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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by Parlox » 19 Sep 2017 22:22

I've reworked the phoneme inventory that i posted further up this page,

/n ŋ/
/p t d t̪ d̪ ʈ ɖ k g/
/s z sʷ zʷ sʼ/
/f v ɹ/
/pʼ tʼ ʈʼ kʼ t͡ʃʼ/

/i ɪ ɯ/
/ɤ/
/a ɑ/
  • :con: Cajun, a descendant of French spoken in Louisiana.
  • :con: Bàsupan, loosely inspired by Amharic.
  • :con: Oddúhath Claire, a fusion of Welsh and Arabic.

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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by Frislander » 22 Sep 2017 12:38

/p t̪ k ʔ/
/s ç~ʃ ħ/
/m n̪/
/w ð̞ ɾ j ɣ/

/i y ɯ u/
/ɛ ʌ ɔ/
/a/

A major dialectal isogloss can be found in the outcome of the proto-phoneme *e, where it merged with either /i/ or /ɛ/ depending on the variety.

Syllable structure is (C)CV(C), where initial clusters may be any cluters, with the exception that initial geminates are not found and glides/flap do not occur as the first member of a cluster. The stops are realised as fricatives when they follow another stop, and are voiced inter-vocaliclly and when adjacent to sonorants and nasals. Additionally any consonant may appear in the coda.

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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by Parlox » 24 Sep 2017 06:01

An idea i had,

/m n ŋ/
/p b t d k g q/
/s z ʃ ʒ/
/t͡ɹ̥ d͡ɹ/
/w f v θ ɹ j h/
/ʀ/
/l ʟ/

/i ø ɯ u/
/ɤ/
/ə ɵ̞/
/ɛ ʌ ɔ/
/a ɑ/

The phonotactics for H̱ěrkxaas̱ǐ are (C)(F)V(C), where C is any consonant, F is any fricative, and V is any vowel
Stress is placed on the first syllable of a word.

Some examples with a possible orthography,

dɑmʀjan; daamẖxan
mɛsŋjʌt; mesṉxǐt
tʌsimjɑvə; tǐsimxaavě
θəɹfjɛtɤ; ṯěrfxeto
  • :con: Cajun, a descendant of French spoken in Louisiana.
  • :con: Bàsupan, loosely inspired by Amharic.
  • :con: Oddúhath Claire, a fusion of Welsh and Arabic.

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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by Creyeditor » 24 Sep 2017 12:18

Porphyrogenitos wrote:Syllable structure:

Code: Select all

     (C)
     / \
   /     \
  V       R
 / \     / \
C  R    C   V
   |       / \
   C      C   R
              |
              C
I really like this way of representing your syllable structure.
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by Auvon » 24 Sep 2017 20:00

/m n ɲ ŋ/ <m n ń ǹ>
/p t t͡ʃ k q ʔ/ <p t c k q h> maybe add voicing/aspiration distinction
/f s ʃ x χ/ <f s ś x x̀> maybe add /ħ/ (probably not) and /h/ (perhaps)
/l j w ʁ ʕ/ <l y w g 3>

This was supposed to look something like Indonesian with pharyngeals, then I added uvulars and got rid of voicing, who knows.

Edit: alternatively, /x χ/ <j x> or <g x> (for the latter, /ʁ/ is then <r>).

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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by Porphyrogenitos » 26 Sep 2017 02:31

Creyeditor wrote: I really like this way of representing your syllable structure.
Thanks!

A thing I came up with:

/m n/ m n
/p t s tʃ ʔ/ p t s c q
/β ð h j ʀ/ v d h y r
/l/ l

In an earlier stage, voiceless obstruents were lenited intervocalically. Geminate obstruents were lost, restoring intervocalic voiceless obstruents. Velars (and maybe others, idk) were palatalized before front vowels and maybe in other environments. Remaining velars were then backed to uvulars, and the uvular stop backed to a glottal stop.

Syllable structure is relatively permissive. Geminate nasals and /l/ still exist. Word-initial voiceless stops lenite in certain mutation environments as an aftereffect of earlier intervocalic lenition.

EDIT: Uh and the vowels are something, idk, that can be figured out later

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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by Auvon » 26 Sep 2017 04:21

Porphyrogenitos wrote:
Creyeditor wrote: I really like this way of representing your syllable structure.
Thanks!

A thing I came up with:

/m n/ m n
/p t s tʃ ʔ/ p t s c q
/β ð h j ʀ/ v d h y r
/l/ l

In an earlier stage, voiceless obstruents were lenited intervocalically. Geminate obstruents were lost, restoring intervocalic voiceless obstruents. Velars (and maybe others, idk) were palatalized before front vowels and maybe in other environments. Remaining velars were then backed to uvulars, and the uvular stop backed to a glottal stop.

Syllable structure is relatively permissive. Geminate nasals and /l/ still exist. Word-initial voiceless stops lenite in certain mutation environments as an aftereffect of earlier intervocalic lenition.

EDIT: Uh and the vowels are something, idk, that can be figured out later
This is quite nice and unique, I like the lack of velars. The mutations would be interesting too.

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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by Vlürch » 26 Sep 2017 22:41

Something random influenced by Japanese, Mandarin, Mongolian, Tangut and Persian.

/m n ŋ/
/p b t̪ d k g q ʔ/
/pʰ~ɸ t̪ʰ~θ kʰ~x/
/t͡s t͡ɕ d͡ʑ~ʑ/
/t͡sʰ~sʰ t͡ɕʰ t͡ʂʰ/
/s ɕ ʐ/
/ʋ j ɣ h/
/ɾ~ɺ/

/ɑ e̞ i o̞ u~ɯ/
/ɑː~ɒː eː ɵ̞ː/
/ɚ~ɻ̩~ɭ̩/

/ɑ/ is [a] following /t͡ɕ d͡ʑ t͡ɕʰ ɕ j/
/ɑː~ɒː/ is [æː] following /t͡ɕ d͡ʑ t͡ɕʰ ɕ j/
/e̞/ is [ɘ̟] following /t͡ɕ d͡ʑ t͡ɕʰ ɕ j ɾ/
/eː/ is [iː] following /t͡ɕ d͡ʑ t͡ɕʰ ɕ j ɾ/
/e̞/ is [ɝ] following /t͡ʂʰ ʐ/
/ɵ̞ː/ is [ʉ̟ː] following /t͡ɕ d͡ʑ t͡ɕʰ ɕ j/
/u~ɯ/ is [ʉ~ɨ] following /t͡ɕ d͡ʑ t͡ɕʰ ɕ j/
/ɚ~ɻ̩~ɭ̩/ is [ʝ̩~ɹ̩~ɮ̩] following /t͡ɕ d͡ʑ t͡ɕʰ ɕ j/

/t͡s/ is [t̻͡s̪] before /ɑ e̞ o̞ u~ɯ/
/t͡sʰ/ is [t̻͡s̪ʰ] before /ɑ e̞ o̞ u~ɯ/
/t͡s/ is [d̻͡z̪] before /ɑː~ɒː ɵ̞ː/
/t͡sʰ/ is [t̻͡s̪] before /ɑː~ɒː ɵ̞ː/
/n/ is [n̠ʲ~ɲ] before /i eː/
/ŋ/ is [ŋʲ] before /i eː/
/t̪/ is [t̪ʲ] before /i eː/
/d/ is [ðʲ] before /i eː/
/k/ is [kʲ~c] before /i eː/
/g/ is [gʲ~ɟ] before /i eː/
/q/ is [k͡ʟ̝̊] before /i eː/
/kʰ~x/ is [c͡ç~ç] before /i eː/
/t͡s/ is [t̻͡s̪ʲ] before /i eː/
/t͡sʰ~sʰ/ is [θʲ] before /i eː/
/s/ is [s̪ʲ] before /i eː/
/ʋ/ is [ɥ] before /i/
/h/ is [ç] before /i/
/ɾ~ɺ/ is [ɾ̠ʲ~ɺ̠ʲ] before /i eː/

All syllables are CV(X)
C = any consonant
X = /m ŋ d q t̪ʰ~θ kʰ~x ɕ ʐ j ɣ ɾ~ɺ/

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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by Frislander » 27 Sep 2017 22:42

I've been thinking about revisions for Proto-Muyan and this is what I came up with for the phonology.

/t s ʈ k kʷ q/ <t s tr k kw q>
/tʰ t͡sʰ ʈʰ kʰ kʷʰ qʰ h/ <th sh trh kh khw qh h>
/t’ t͡s’ ʈ’ k’ kʷ’ q’ ʔ/ <t' s' tr' k' kw' q' ‘>
/n j ɺ˞ w ʁ/ <n y l w r>

/i u/ <i u>
/ə/ <e>
/æ ɒ/ <a o>

Additionally there is a pitch-accent system. Each content word has at least one accented syllable (most words have only one accent, which wis on the root, though compounding and one or two affixes can produce words with multiple accents) and that syllable may take one of three tones/phonations: /á a̤ a̰/ <á à ã>.

Syllable structure is CV(n, l, r).

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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by cedh » 28 Sep 2017 17:52

Frislander wrote:I've been thinking about revisions for Proto-Muyan and this is what I came up with for the phonology.

/t s ʈ k kʷ q/ <t s tr k kw q>
/tʰ t͡sʰ ʈʰ kʰ kʷʰ qʰ h/ <th sh trh kh khw qh h>
/t’ t͡s’ ʈ’ k’ kʷ’ q’ ʔ/ <t' s' tr' k' kw' q' ‘>
/n j ɺ˞ w ʁ/ <n y l w r>

/i u/ <i u>
/ə/ <e>
/æ ɒ/ <a o>

Additionally there is a pitch-accent system. Each content word has at least one accented syllable (most words have only one accent, which wis on the root, though compounding and one or two affixes can produce words with multiple accents) and that syllable may take one of three tones/phonations: /á a̤ a̰/ <á à ã>.

Syllable structure is CV(n, l, r).
You could also write /ʁ/ as <g> and the retroflex stops as <r rh r'>, in parallel with the sibilants. Another alternative would be to write the sibilant affricates as either <ts tsh ts'> in parallel with the retroflexes, or as <c ch c'>. Both of the latter are in danger of suggesting a mistakenly shibilant pronunciation of what should be /tsʰ/ though.

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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by Vlürch » 28 Sep 2017 21:25

Something pretty minimalistic.

/n/ <n>
/p/ <p>
/s/ <s>
/ʋ x/ <v h>
/l/ <l>

/ɑ i u/ <a i u>

/p/ is [ʔʷ] word-initially
/n/ is [m] before /p/, [ŋ] before /x/, [ɲ] in contact with /i/, [◌̃ɴ] word-finally
/x/ is [kʰ] following /n/, [ç] before /i/, [ɦ] intervocalically with /ɑ u/, [ːØ] before consonants
/ʋ/ is word-initially
/s/ is [ɕ] in contact with /i/, [z] intervocalically with /ɑ u/, [ʑ] intervocalically with /i/, [t̪] word-finally after /ɑ u/ and [ɕ] after /i/
/l/ is [ʎ] before /i/, [ɫ] before /x/, [t͡ɬ] word-initially before /ɑ u/ and [c͡ʎ̝̊] before /i/, [ɮ] intervocalically, [ɬ] word-finally after /ɑ u/ and [ʎ̝̊] after /i/
/nxi/ is [ɲc͡çʰi]
/nsi/ is [ɲt͡ɕi]
/nni/ is [ŋʲɲi]
/hɑu/ is [ʕɔː]
/ɑu/ is [ɑʕʷu]
/ɑix/ is [æː]

/ɑ/ is [ʕ] before /u/, [æ] following /i/
/i/ is [j] before and following /ɑ/, [ɥ] before /u/
/u/ is [w] before /ɑ/, [ɥ] before /i/
/u/ is [y] following /i/
/u/ is [ɔ] following /ɑ/
/ʋuɑ/ is [wɔː]
/ʋui/ is [ɥiː]

If a word has /iɑ/ or /ɑix/, every following /ɑ/ is [æ] and /u/ is [y].

Syllables are (C)V(X).
C = any consonant
V = any vowel
X = /n s x l/

Random meaningless words:
nusuhpahuan [nuzuːpɑxwɑ̃ɴ]
hiuhlavi [çɥyːɮɑʋi]
vuasvana [wɔːsʋɑnɑ]
vulavivui [buɮɑʋiɥiː]
unhapisa [uŋkʰɑpiʑɑ]
panhinpa [ʔʷɑɲc͡çʰimpɑ]
huavan [xwɑʋɑ̃ɴ]
auhahis [ʕɔɦɑçiɕ]
vilnilva [bilɲilʋɑ]
hassavi [xɑssɑʋi]
saisiva [sɑjɕiʋɑ]
pahauvina [ʔʷɑʕɔːʋiɲɑ]
alhunisalu [ɑɫxuɲizɑɮu]
piapa [ʔʷjæpæ]
nahanni [nɑɦɑŋʲɲi]
punusaus [ʔʷunuzɑʕʷut̪]
puhinava [ʔʷuçiɲɑʋɑ]
lalhuan [t͡ɬɑɫxwɑ̃ɴ]
allilusuhuhi [ɑlʎiɮuzuɦuçi]
nilhahiaih [ɲiɫxɑçjæː]
sisahvisau [ɕiʑɑːʋiʑɑʕʷu]
alaihsus [ɑɮæːzyt̪]
linuhnsi [c͡ʎ̝̊iɲuːɲt͡ɕi]

[hr][/hr]

Something really minimalistic.

/m/ <m>
/t k/ <t k>
/l/ <l>

/ə ɚ/ <a e>

/m/ is [p] after /ə/, [m] before
/t/ is [θ] after /ə/, [t̪ʰ] before
/k/ is [q] after /ə/, [kʰ] before
/l/ is [l̪ʲ] after /ə/, [ɫ̪] before
/m/ is [ɳ] after /ɚ/, before
/t/ is [ʈʰ] after /ɚ/, [t̪] before
/k/ is [ʔ] after /ɚ/, [kʰ] before
/l/ is [ɫ̠] after /ɚ/, [ɭ] before

/ə/ is [ɑ] before /m k/
/ə/ is [ɐ̟] before /l/
/ɚ/ is [ɤ̞] before /l/

Vowels are nasalised before /m/.

amtal [ɑ̃pt̪ʰɐ̟l̪ʲ]
etem [ɚʈʰɚ̃ɳ]
metelkak [bɚʈʰɤ̞ɫ̠kʰɑq]

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