Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

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Zekoslav
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by Zekoslav » 02 May 2019 15:58

I've read many times that /ɢ/ and /ɴ/ are rare, but otherwise I don't see anything unusual. It's very "regular" in that there's not many gaps in the inventory - nearly everything fits into a place x manner x phonation grid.
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LinguoFranco
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by LinguoFranco » 04 May 2019 16:00

DesEsseintes wrote:
30 Apr 2019 04:22
Here you go:

ᵐb ⁿd ᶯɖ ᶮɟ ᵑɡ
Thank you!

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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by Porphyrogenitos » 05 May 2019 07:06

Something obnoxious - a tongueless phonology. Well, a tongueless consonant inventory:

/m/
/p ʔ/
/f h/
/v ʕ/

/ʕ/ is variously [ʕ~ʕ̝~ɦ~ɑ̯]

Syllable structure is (C)V(C), with any consonant permitted in coda position, but with some degree of historic and synchronic simplication and assimilation nonetheless taking place in that position, e.g. /f.h/ > /h.h/ or /ʔ.ʕ/ > /h.ʕ/. Stress is word-initial.

The vowel inventory is /i a~ə o/, with /i/ being the only significantly tongueful element in the language. /o/ involves a little bit of tongue retraction but is not extremely back - just very rounded. /a/ tends to shift to [ə], in order to compensate for the fact that /aʕ/ tends to be realized as [ɑː], especially in rapid speech and unstressed positions.

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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by DV82LECM » 06 May 2019 13:05

I remember posing this on a board, years ago. Made one guy go kinda nuts thinking about what he could do with this: tone, suprasegmentals, etc.

Better question is, can you survive without a tongue? I'm sure you can, but I imagine it would be aesthetically dull and rather hard. Thankfully, that one a-hole in The Mummy died soon after having his removed.

Baahm uuuu, Aahm-hoh-paahp! ("Damn you, Imhotep!")

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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by Birdlang » 09 May 2019 21:36

/p t c k q/ p t č k ķ
/f s ʃ x X h/ f s x q h
/ʦ ʧ/ j c
/m n ɲ ŋ ɴ/ m n ñ ŋ ṅ
/β̞ ð̞ j ɥ w ɰ ʁ̞ ʕ̞/ b d j ÿ ẅ w g ḥ
/l ʎ/ l ł
/r ʀ/ r ṙ

/i u e o a/ i u e o a
Ꭓꭓ Ʝʝ Ɬɬ Ɦɦ Ɡɡ Ɥɥ Ɫɫ Ɽɽ Ɑɑ Ɱɱ Ɐɐ Ɒɒ Ɓɓ Ɔɔ Ɖɖ Ɗɗ Əə Ɛɛ Ɠɠ Ɣɣ Ɯɯ Ɲɲ Ɵɵ Ʀʀ Ʃʃ Ʈʈ Ʊʊ Ʋʋ Ʒʒ Ꞵꞵ Ʉʉ Ʌʌ Ŋŋ Ɂɂ Ɪɪ Ææ Øø Ð𠌜 Ɜɜ Ǝɘ

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Frislander
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by Frislander » 14 May 2019 15:34

/pʰ tʰ kʰ/
/pː tː t͡s kː/
/s/
/sː/
/m n l j w/
/mː nː lː/

/i u/
/e ə o/
/a/

Syllable structure is (C)(G)V(N), where C is any consonant, G is a glide, and N is one of /m l/, where /m/ assimilates to the POA of a following obstruent. Onset-less syllables are restricted to word-initial /a/, with other vowels being found with homeorganic glides and schwa being entirely absent from this position. /i u/ in particular appear to pattern as if they are always found with a glide /j w/, i.e. they're always found as /ji wi ju wu/.

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Tuyono
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by Tuyono » 21 May 2019 14:42

I keep changing my mind about the phonology of this not-so-new project. Right now I have:

/m n/
/p t t͡s k q/
/tʼ t͡sʼ kʼ qʼ/
/s h/
/l/
/j w/

/i u/
/e o/
/a/

/e o/ might actually be [ɛ] and [ɔ].
/w/ is [ʍ] before voiceless consonants and at the end of a word.
Syllable structure is (C)(wj)V(S) where S is one of /s h m n l w j/. Coda /h/ can only appear word-finally. Not sure about /j/. Any sequence of two or more vowels is pronounced as separate syllables.
I'm still trying to figure out which clusters are allowed.
Stress is usually word-initial, but there are some exceptions because of specific prefixes that cannot take stress.
Frislander wrote:
11 Apr 2019 17:36
languages with both ejectives and affricates tend to be more likely to have only ejective affricates than non-ejective ones (see the Salishan family, which universally has /t͡ɬ’/ but almost as universally lacks its non-ejective counterpart), as well as many others such as Sandawe in Africa.
This makes me want to have /t͡sʼ/ without /t͡s/, but I'm not sure. Maybe having no /pʼ/ is breaking the symmetry enough already?
If anyone has any thoughts or comments, I'd love to hear them!

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LinguoFranco
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by LinguoFranco » 23 May 2019 01:42

/m n ŋ/
/p t k ʔ/
/pʰ tʰ kʰ/
/s h/
/l r/
/j ʋ/
/t͡s/

/i iː ʊ uː/
/e eː/
/a aː/

It has a CV(C) syllable structure, with the allowed codae being /ŋ ʔ k l t/

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DesEsseintes
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by DesEsseintes » 23 May 2019 03:11

Tuyono wrote:
21 May 2019 14:42
This makes me want to have /t͡sʼ/ without /t͡s/, but I'm not sure. Maybe having no /pʼ/ is breaking the symmetry enough already?
If anyone has any thoughts or comments, I'd love to hear them!
Those are both good ideas. Having only an ejective affricate is fine (as Frislander had pointed out), and /p’/ is the most likely gap in an ejective series. Some languages that feature glottalisation have implosive rather than ejective stops at the labial, and sometimes also dental/alveolar, PoAs.

As for the symmetry, you can arrange your inventory like this:

/m n/
/p t s k q/
/t’ ts’ k’ q’/
/h ʔ/
/l j w/

Only one gap. And now glottals are their own category. Oh wait, you didn’t have a glottal stop in your original inventory. Add one?

I’ll stop interfering now. [:)]

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Tuyono
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by Tuyono » 23 May 2019 19:26

DesEsseintes wrote:
23 May 2019 03:11
As for the symmetry, you can arrange your inventory like this:

/m n/
/p t s k q/
/t’ ts’ k’ q’/
/h ʔ/
/l j w/

Only one gap. And now glottals are their own category. Oh wait, you didn’t have a glottal stop in your original inventory. Add one?

I’ll stop interfering now.
No, don't [:D] I asked for opinions and this is very helpful, thanks!
I did originally have a glottal stop but dropped it out in order to have tons of vowel hiatus everywhere. I really like having /ts’/ correspond to /s/,although I feel like the phonotactics will have to change a lot if I do this.

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DesEsseintes
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by DesEsseintes » 26 May 2019 12:29

I like this a lot:

/m n/ m n
/m’ n’/ m̌ ň
/p t t͡s t͡ʃ k ʔ/ p t c ch k ’
/p’ t’ t͡s’ t͡ʃ’ k’/ p’ t’ c’ ch’ k’
/s ʃ x h/ s sh x h
/z ʒ ɣ/ z zh g
/j w/ y w
/j’ w’/ y̌ w̌

/a e i o u/ a e i o u
/aː eː oː/ á é ó
/ãː õː/ ã õ

There’s just so much about this that’s so not me:
- five vowels (five!)
- nasal vowels
- acutes for length
- /p/
- no tone
- no lateral fricative

I feel all fresh.

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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by Auvon » 31 May 2019 07:34

/t t͡ʃ k ᵐb ⁿd m n ŋ s x ɾ j w i u e o ɛ ɔ a/ with (C/Cl)V(C)
Cl is an onset cluster, the permissible ones being most Cy except *cy ty* (which>c), all Cw, and *br dr tr kr*

in dialetto 1: coda *t c k b d s h* impart high tone (the first five from an intermediate stage of checking the vowel), all codas to zero with compensatory lengthening only on final vowels. *br dr tr kr* merge into *by dy ty ky* (so only historic tr is distinguished still).

in dialetto 2: ê ô merge into e o. onset clusters resolve to just the second C in the cluster. any sequences of two occlusive consonants assimilate to a geminate of the second. *s h* to /h/ initially

both written <t c k b d m n g s h r y w i u ê ô e o a>

a historic /f/ was banned by the 38th edict of daemyêkahki araô (daemyêkáki araô; daeyekakki arao) abt 400 year-eqs ago, after his aunt, a leading member of a rebellion in cuêrkya (cuêkya; cuerya) to the north, was executed (historic mergers of a good amount of consonants (occlusives labial, labiovelar, and some dental) to f in the lect of cuêrkya, related to this lect, made them a common target for mocking). this was ineffective outside of a few areas but /f/ was already in decline, merging to h>0 almost completely by 300YeqA.

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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by holbuzvala » 01 Jun 2019 15:12

So I have this phonology for a proto-lang.

Code: Select all

                        lbl	alvlr	pltl	vlr	glttl
stop	plain	        p	t		k	
	labialised	pʷ	tʷ		kʷ	
	palatilised	pʲ	tʲ		kʲ	
(af)fricative	plain	ɸ  β	t͡s  s	ç	ɣ	h
	labialised		t͡sʷ sʷ			
	palatilised		t͡sʲ sʲ			
nasal		        m	n		ŋ	
liquid			        l	j		
trills			        r̥ r
I was wondering: should I include a voiceless velar fricative /x/ and a voiceless lateral fricative /ɬ/ to complement /ɣ/ and /l/ in the same way that /r̥/ currently complements /r/?

Options:
1. Leave it as it is.
2. Add /ɬ/
3. Add /ɬ/ and /x/

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DesEsseintes
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by DesEsseintes » 03 Jun 2019 16:43

What I have so far on a consonant inventory I’m assembling this evening; I’m aiming for a very large number of continuants with a minimal amount of occlusives.

/m n ŋ ŋʷ/
/t k kʷ ʔ ʔʷ/
/s̪ s̠ ɕ h hʷ/
/ɸ θ ɻ̊/
/β ð ɻ/
/ɬ̪ ɬ̠ ʎ̥/
/l̪ l̠ ʎ/
/j w/

I originally thought I’d just do five vowels, but I’m having doubts. We’ll see.
Edit: Decided to make a table, because it's so much more satisfying:

Code: Select all

     m   n  ⁿɖ  ⁿd͡ʑ  ŋ   ŋʷ
         t           k   kʷ  ʔ   ʔʷ
         s̪   s̠   ɕ           h   hʷ
     ɸ   θ   ɻ̊
     β   ð   ɻ
         ɬ̪   ɬ̠   ʎ̥
         l̪   l̠   ʎ
                 j       w
A wild prenasalised stop and its affricate friend also somehow managed to sneak their way in there.

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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by Birdlang » 05 Jun 2019 20:16

A language orthographically inspired by West African languages.
/m n ɲ ŋ/ m n ɲ ŋ
/p ƥ b ɓ t ƭ d ɗ c ƈ ɟ ʄ k ƙ g ɠ/ p ƥ b ɓ t ƭ d ɗ c ƈ j ƴ k ƙ g ɠ
/ɸ β s z ʃ ʒ x ɣ h ɦ/ f v s z ʃ ʒ x ɣ h ɦ
/ʧ ʤ/ ꞔ ʝ
/j w/ y/i w/u
/l/ l
/r/ r

/i ɨ ʉ u ɪ ɪ̈ ʊ̈ ʊ e ə ɵ o ɛ ɜ ɞ ɔ a ɶ ɑ ɒ/ i ɨ ʉ u ɩ ɪ ꞷ ʊ/ʋ e ǝ ɵ o ɛ ɜ ꞝ ɔ a ɞ ɑ ɒ
Long vowels, indicated by doubling,
/a˩ a˧ a˥ a˩˥ a˥˩/ à a á ǎ â

@DesEissentes
I think for vowels you could do /i e o a/ or /e o a/ and I love the contrast between dental and lowered/retroflexish sibilants (or whatever the line under them is), laterals, and lateral fricatives.
Ꭓꭓ Ʝʝ Ɬɬ Ɦɦ Ɡɡ Ɥɥ Ɫɫ Ɽɽ Ɑɑ Ɱɱ Ɐɐ Ɒɒ Ɓɓ Ɔɔ Ɖɖ Ɗɗ Əə Ɛɛ Ɠɠ Ɣɣ Ɯɯ Ɲɲ Ɵɵ Ʀʀ Ʃʃ Ʈʈ Ʊʊ Ʋʋ Ʒʒ Ꞵꞵ Ʉʉ Ʌʌ Ŋŋ Ɂɂ Ɪɪ Ææ Øø Ð𠌜 Ɜɜ Ǝɘ

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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by Porphyrogenitos » 06 Jun 2019 06:34

Initials:
/m n/ <m n>
/p t̪ ts tʃ k ʔ/ <p t ts ch k ∅>
/b d̪ dz dʒ g/ <b d dz j g>
/f θ s ʃ x h/ <f th s sh kh h>
/v ð z ʒ ɣ/ <v dh z zh gh>
/l̥ ɾ̥ j̊ w̥/ <lh rh yh wh>
/l ɾ j w/ <l r y w>

Finals:
/i e a o u ə/ <i e a o u ea>
/ai̯ au̯/ <ai au>
/eŋ aŋ oŋ əŋ/ <en an on ean>

Been a long time since I messed around with a larger inventory with European-like voiced fricative series, but (in a variation on a different idea I may have posted about here) I want to do a thing where each lexeme is basically just C+rhyme, no tone, though with a number of paradigmatic alternations, like C+e/ai̯/i or C+eŋ/aŋ. Currently this gives me 384 possible phonological words, meaning there will have to be fewer roots. I might add a bit more to the initials inventory - maybe an ejective series? Or retroflex? Or maybe permit a very limited number of clusters? I'll also probably have to rework the finals a little bit.

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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by DesEsseintes » 06 Jun 2019 08:01

Birdlang wrote:
05 Jun 2019 20:16
@DesEissentes
I think for vowels you could do /i e o a/ or /e o a/ and I love the contrast between dental and lowered/retroflexish sibilants (or whatever the line under them is), laterals, and lateral fricatives.
Thanks for the suggestion. Yes, you may be right that /a e o/ would work well here.

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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by Omzinesý » 08 Jun 2019 21:25

p t k <p t k>
b d g <b d g>
f s <f s>
z ɹ̝ <z r>
ʋ ɣ~ʁ <v q>

y i u
yø ie uo
ø e o
ä

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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by Porphyrogenitos » 09 Jun 2019 20:42

Posted something very similar to this a while back but oh well:

Code: Select all

ma  me  mi        mə mɨ
mʷa mʷe mʷi mo mu
na                nə nɨ
    ɲe  ɲi        
nʷa nʷe nʷi no nu
pa  pe  pi  po pu
ta                tə tɨ
    tʃe tʃi       
tʷa tʷe tʷi to tu
ka  ke  ki        kə kɨ
kʷa kʷe kʷi ko ku
ʔa  ʔe  ʔi        ʔə ʔɨ
sa                sə sɨ
    ʃe  ʃi        
sʷa sʷe sʷi so su
ɾa  ɾe  ɾi        ɾə ɾɨ
lʷa lʷe lʷi lo lu
wa  we  wi  wo wu
ja  je  ji        jə jɨ

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DesEsseintes
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by DesEsseintes » 10 Jun 2019 00:02

Porphyrogenitos wrote:
09 Jun 2019 20:42
Posted something very similar to this a while back but oh well:

Code: Select all

ma  me  mi        mə mɨ
mʷa mʷe mʷi mo mu
na                nə nɨ
    ɲe  ɲi        
nʷa nʷe nʷi no nu
pa  pe  pi  po pu
ta                tə tɨ
    tʃe tʃi       
tʷa tʷe tʷi to tu
ka  ke  ki        kə kɨ
kʷa kʷe kʷi ko ku
ʔa  ʔe  ʔi        ʔə ʔɨ
sa                sə sɨ
    ʃe  ʃi        
sʷa sʷe sʷi so su
ɾa  ɾe  ɾi        ɾə ɾɨ
lʷa lʷe lʷi lo lu
wa  we  wi  wo wu
ja  je  ji        jə jɨ
Quite enjoying the evolution of your syllable inventories. [:)]

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