Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by xinda » 13 Feb 2011 06:15

I don't actually use it, but it is fun to play with.
力在公蝦米????

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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by roninbodhisattva » 13 Feb 2011 08:41

The generator really doesn't seem to like asymmetrical vowel systems.

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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by Micamo » 13 Feb 2011 16:50

It also is way, way too fond of prenasalized consonants.
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by Golahet » 13 Feb 2011 18:48

A sample of what size do you base that claim on? Prenasalized consonants are rarely generated for me (but I don't know exactly how frequent it is for natlangs). However, it seems that it barely recognizes the existence of mid /e̞ o̞/ and insists on using mid-high /e o/ or mid-low /ɛ ɔ/.


Here's a challenge:

Generate ten phoneme inventories. Those ten inventories are the inventories of the ten most widely spoken languages in a conworld. Now, how would an ideal auxlang's inventory look like for that conworld?

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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by Micamo » 13 Feb 2011 18:57

I'd have to run some exact statistics for you but it feels like at least a third of them have prenasalized consonants. And those that don't have creaky voice stops.

The top N most common (in lexemes, not in presence) consonants/vowels from all the inventories pulled together, where N is the median number of consonants/vowels of a language considered individually.

The adjacent occurrence probabilities (like, say, the probability of /t/ appearing immediately after an /s/, compared to /k/ being there instead) should be the same as a pooled cross-linguistic sample.
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by roninbodhisattva » 13 Feb 2011 19:09

I'd have to run some exact statistics for you but it feels like at least a third of them have prenasalized consonants.
I've found this to be the case too. The presence of prenasalized consonants is definitely higher than what you get cross-linguistically.

But while I'm here, yet another. This time, based on Qiangic:

Image'

Vowels: /i u e ø ə ɚ o a/

Syllable structure (Fricative)(C)(Glide)V(V)(C)

Pre-initial fricatives assimlate in voicing and come from the set /s ɕ χ/. Vowel clusters are of the form /i u/ + /ə ɚ a/. The possible final consonants are: /p t k m n ŋ l s ɕ χ/.

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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by Ceresz » 13 Feb 2011 19:54

Oh, that one was very nice. It's just my type of phonology.

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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by cybrxkhan » 15 Feb 2011 08:12

This is an extremely rough draft for Proto-Beseric, which will be the proto-language for a whole crapload of languages in my conworld, ranging from Indic-inspired languages to Russian-inspired and Semitic and Berber inspired languages, as well as a trademark evillang of my conworld (spoken by a West Africa + Mordor hybrid of people).

Anyhow, here it is (I'll probably change the vowels depending on how I want the sound changes to work):

Code: Select all

CONSONANTS:
/p pˤ b t tˤ d k kˤ g/ <p ph b t th d k kh g>
/f fˤ v s z ʃ ʒ X~h/ <f fh v s z sh zh h>
/m n ɲ ŋ/ <m n nh ng>
/ʍ w l L r ʁ~ʀ j/ <wh w l lh r rh y>

VOWELS:
/a a: e e: i i: o o: u u:/ <a aa e ee i ii o oo u uu>

SYLLABLE-INITIAL CLUSTERS:
Non-Pha​ryn​gealized non-approximant consonant + approximant
/s/ or /ʃ/ + nasal (+ approximant)
/s/ or /ʃ/ + Non-Pharyngealized stop (+ approximant)

SYLLABLE-FINAL CLUSTERS:
Non-Pha​ryn​gealized non-stop + Non-Pha​ryn​gealized stop
Non-Pha​ryn​gealized non-fricative + fricative
Approximant (+ nasal) (+ stop or fricative)

Example words:

Dwhenz
Vralnh
Mwaakh
Trhofk
Khirh
Zheemh
Slhungzh
Ngashp
Therhn
Byiiksh
Myongk
Fhiwhv
Rhuk-h
Noobs
Nhlhak
Shrezhb
Yolhng
Whuutz
Gulf
Phiym
Zwaafs
Hyeelns
Lhuurmv
Thiiwhn-h
Froogf
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by Omzinesý » 15 Feb 2011 08:28

roninbodhisattva wrote: But while I'm here, yet another. This time, based on Qiangic:

Image'

Vowels: /i u e ø ə ɚ o a/

Syllable structure (Fricative)(C)(Glide)V(V)(C)

Pre-initial fricatives assimlate in voicing and come from the set /s ɕ χ/. Vowel clusters are of the form /i u/ + /ə ɚ a/. The possible final consonants are: /p t k m n ŋ l s ɕ χ/.
This is a nice phonology, something own, but nothing odd. Retrofex are fine, seldom seen in conlangs. Do unvoiced nasals appear only in some positions, like in Celtic languages? Dentals are always dentals, never alveolar?

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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by roninbodhisattva » 15 Feb 2011 08:30

Omzinesý wrote:This is a nice phonology, something own, but nothing odd. Retrofex are fine, seldom seen in conlangs. Do unvoiced nasals appear only in some positions, like in Celtic languages? Dentals are always dentals, never alveolar?
Thanks! Unvoiced nasals appear in simple onsets and after a voiceless fricative in onsets. They're not the result of morphophonology or anything like that if that's what you're asking. Dentals would probably vary somewhat with alveolars, but I haven't thought about that much.

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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by Omzinesý » 15 Feb 2011 08:37

[quote="roninbodhisattva]Thanks! Unvoiced nasals appear in simple onsets and after a voiceless fricative in onsets. They're not the result of morphophonology or anything like that if that's what you're asking. Dentals would probably vary somewhat with alveolars, but I haven't thought about that much.[/quote]

Well, in Caelic unvoiced dentals appear word initially and in the beginnig of stressed words, I remember. I quess there are no languages where they appear everywhere. Dental-alveolar is not necessary. I had studied English ten years until I myself remarked, not in school, English t is alveolar, not dental like in Finnish.

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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by roninbodhisattva » 15 Feb 2011 08:39

I know it's not necessary, it's just something that I like when I have dental phonemes.

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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by Omzinesý » 15 Feb 2011 08:52

I made one.

velarised plosives: pf [pf] z [ts] k [kx]
normal plosives: p [p] t [t] c [k/s]
extra short plosives: b [p/b] d [t/d] g [k/g]
nasals: m [m]n[n] ng' [ŋ]
liquids: r[ɾ] rr[r]

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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by roninbodhisattva » 15 Feb 2011 09:02

Omzinesý wrote:velarised plosives: pf [pf] z [ts] k [kx]
Those aren't velarized plosives, they're affricates. Velars plosives would be [pˠ tˠ kˠ].

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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by Omzinesý » 15 Feb 2011 09:35

ups I used wrong term. First I wrote 'aspirated' in brackets. Then i realised they are fricated, that was the word, maybe they could be considered africates as well. After all the idea was that aspirated consonants are not rellay 'aspirated'. To consider German pf as a form of p.

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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by roninbodhisattva » 15 Feb 2011 14:51

Omzinesý wrote:ups I used wrong term. First I wrote 'aspirated' in brackets. Then i realised they are fricated, that was the word, maybe they could be considered africates as well. After all the idea was that aspirated consonants are not rellay 'aspirated'. To consider German pf as a form of p.
Well, there are languages in which underlying aspirates become affricates phonetically. So you could just do that.

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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by cybrxkhan » 16 Feb 2011 05:55

Here's three more phonology inventories I did while bored in class today. The first one is an attempt for a proto-language for one of my conworld's language families, but I think I'll screw that. Anyways:

Code: Select all

CONSONANTS:
Stops: /p p' b t t' d ʈ ʈ' ɖ c c' ɟ k k' g q q'/ <p p' b t t' d th th' dh c c' j k k' g q q'>
Fricatives: /ɸ s z ʂ ʐ x~X ɣ ʁ h ɦ/ <f s z sh zh kh gh rh h hh
Nasals: /m n ɳ ɲ ŋ/ <m n nn nh ng>
Approximants: /w l ɾ~r ⱱ j/ <w l r v y>

VOWELS:
/a i u/ <a i u>

SYLLABLE STRUCTURE:
(C)V(Stops, nasals, or fricatives except for /h ɦ/)​

Code: Select all

CONSONANTS:
Stops: /p t c k q/ <p t c k q>
Fricatives: /f s x/ <f s x>
Nasals: /m m̥ n n̥/ <m mh n nh>
Approximants: /w ɺ ʟ/ <w r l>

VOWELS:
/i y e ɛ a ə u o ɔ ɒ/ <i ú é a e u o ó á>

TONES:
Rising tone is indicated by an <h> after the vowel.
Falling tone is indicated by a <y> after the vowel.

SYLLABLE STRUCTURE:
(C)V(stop)

SAMPLE WORDS
Púhc
Mheyp
Qat

Code: Select all

CONSONANTS:
Stops: /p pˠ c cˠ q qˠ k͡p/ <p ph k kh q qh c>
Fricatives: /ɸ s h/ <f s h>
Nasals: /m n~ɲ/ <m n>
Approximants: /w l j ɾ/ <w l y r>

VOWELS:
/a ə i ɔ u/ <a e i o u>

SYLLABLE STRUCTURE:
CV(nasal or /k͡p/)

TONES:
Rising is indicated by an acute accent.
Falling is indicated by a grave accent.

EXAMPLE WORDS:
Féc
Yòm
Ta-da.
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by roninbodhisattva » 16 Feb 2011 07:40

Yeah, the first one is a bit much in my opinion. I like the second one though.

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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by cybrxkhan » 16 Feb 2011 09:43

roninbodhisattva wrote:Yeah, the first one is a bit much in my opinion. I like the second one though.
Pretty much agree; I was thinking of making something enormous so I could easily merge some of the phonemes together in different ways, and it ended up getting a bit out of hand and I just went along just for the hell of it. I just thought that maybe someday I could make a Frankenstein conlang not because I'm nooby but because it'd be hilarious to make - i.e. a conlang with an unrealistic shitload amount of phonological and grammatical features just for the fun of it.

Anyhow, I do agree the second one is probably the most succinct out of all of them... I might throw in features of the first phonological inventory to spice it up a bit, it might work as my proto-lang... Regardless, I wonder what wonders I will come up within the next couple of days when I'm bored in class. :roll:
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by Ear of the Sphinx » 16 Feb 2011 22:08

A sketch phoneme invertory named /ʃɑɯʋɑ/.

In IPA:
Spoiler:
Consonantsː
m ɱ n ɲ ŋ
p b t d c k ɡ q
β f v θ ð s z ɬ ʃ ʒ ç x ɣ ʍ χ ʁ h
w ʋ r l j ʎ ɥ

Vowels:
i y ɯ u
ɪ ʏ ʊ
e o
ɛ ɔ ʌ
a ɑ ɒ
In transliteration:
Spoiler:
Consonantsː
m F n J N
p b t d c k g q
B f v T D s z K S Z C x G W X R h
w P r l j L H

Vowels:
i y M u
I Y U
e o
E O V
a A Q
:-D
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