(Conlangs) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

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MrKrov
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Re: Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by MrKrov » 19 Aug 2010 16:18

Uh, the palatal plosives merge with the velars before /i/. I take it I need to rewrite that and similar assorted rules of allophony?

I'd prefer to keep the affricates/fricatives symmetrical so no German orthography trick, and I'm leaning towards <ċ>. Starting to seem more plosive-ish than <ç>.
I also, uh, have /l/ so I kinda think it warants a second grapheme for a second phoneme.

EDIT: I really don't know why I said consonantalish. Doh.
Last edited by MrKrov on 19 Aug 2010 17:34, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by sangi39 » 19 Aug 2010 16:33

MrKrov wrote:Uh, the palatal plosives merge with the velars before /i/. I take it I need to rewrite that and similar assorted rules of allophony?
Maybe. All I know is that it wasn't clear to me. Others might not have had the same trouble :)
MrKrov wrote:I'd prefer to keep the affricates/fricatives symmetrical so no German orthography trick, and I'm leaning towards <ċ>. Starting to seem more consonantalish than <ç>.
Plus, you've already got the overdot in use above <x>, so no harm in using in elsewhere :)
MrKrov wrote:I also, uh, have /l/ so I kinda think it warants a second grapheme for a second phoneme.
Good point, I completely missed that /l/ :P
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Re: Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by SLiV » 20 Aug 2010 20:07

Arzemju wrote:I have a question:
How come the finnish final /n/ is often pronounced as /h/?
I've been listening to some finnish musics and I hear alot of final -n said as /h/.
Is it a rule or is it just the singer?
It happens in Dutch as well, at least in suffices like plural -en or infinitive -en: <de mannen werken> is almost always pronounced /də mɐnə wɛrkə/ instead of /də mɐnən wɛrkən/. I think that is what happens in Finnish as well.
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Re: Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by Itsuki Kohaku » 21 Aug 2010 14:30

SLiV wrote:
Arzemju wrote:I have a question:
How come the finnish final /n/ is often pronounced as /h/?
I've been listening to some finnish musics and I hear alot of final -n said as /h/.
Is it a rule or is it just the singer?
It happens in Dutch as well, at least in suffices like plural -en or infinitive -en: <de mannen werken> is almost always pronounced /də mɐnə wɛrkə/ instead of /də mɐnən wɛrkən/. I think that is what happens in Finnish as well.

This change has been taken into Afrikaans as well. Only thing is, They've also dropped the "n" from writing as well.
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Re: Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by Omzinesý » 29 Aug 2010 18:17

In Estonian the final n is already disappered. Finnish [pojan] 'boy's' is, I think' poja in Estonian.
There are very few word final consonats in Finnish t,l,n,s, so there are much space, when pronouncing them. The final n is normally assimilated to the following consonant. pojan pallo [pojampallo] 'bay's ball', pojan luona [pojalluona] 'with the boy' If there is a vowel in the beginning of the following word n can be assimilated to the glottal stop, nbot really h, I think.

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Re: Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by Omzinesý » 29 Aug 2010 18:21

Is /c/ an alveolar palatal and /ç/ a velar palatal? It sounds like that. Or are palatals a separate articulation place?

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Re: Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by Wanderer » 29 Aug 2010 18:42

Palatals are a seperate place of articulation. /c/ is a voiceless plosive, while /ç/ is a voiceless fricative, but they are articulated at the same place, which is neither velar nor alveolar.

Having a true /c/ isn't that common though. Often 'palatal' consonants languages might have, are palatalized alveolar, like for instance one of these: /tʃ tɕ tʲ/. These may function as palatals in a specific language, but are not true palatals. I find it difficult hard to hear the difference between [tʲ] (a palatalized alveolar) and [c] (a true palatal) as well, so I can understand your confusing :-P .

Your association of /ç/ with velar might be due to the fact that [ç] is an allophone of /x/ (which is velar) in some languages (notably German).

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Re: Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by goneriku » 31 Aug 2010 13:57

Arzemju wrote: As other said, this is not uncommom, it is much more realistic than a language with /p b t d k g/.
What?
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Re: Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by kadani » 31 Aug 2010 15:27

How would English change if the English speakers are a minority among the speakers of the constructed language. I assume many loanwords (zene whyku for example) and maybe a phonetical approximation, like /S/ becoming /s`/ and /Z/ becoming /z`/. Is that right? Would grammar changes be expected?
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Re: Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by goneriku » 31 Aug 2010 19:27

Kadani, think of common mistakes a native speaker might make speaking English. Think of the way they would pronounce it, especially if there's any English sounds that don't contrast in your language.
And yes, grammar changes would be expected although it's up to you how divergent they would be. Do the same thing as with the phonology, how would a speaker of your language use English grammar?
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Re: Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by Maximillian » 31 Aug 2010 19:31

kadani wrote:How would English change if the English speakers are a minority among the speakers of the constructed language.
Unpredictably.
kadani wrote:I assume many loanwords (zene whyku for example)...
Right.
kadani wrote:...and maybe a phonetical approximation, like /S/ becoming /s`/ and /Z/ becoming /z`/. Is that right?
It depends. If English speakers have English as their first language, not much sound changes are expected. If, however, they're bilingual, and they use the second language more, then yes, there would be sound changes.
kadani wrote:Would grammar changes be expected?
The same as with phonology.
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Re: Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by reizoukin » 01 Sep 2010 12:59

What are typical allophones of unvoiced ejectives? In natlangs, where in a word do these ejectives usually occur? (i.e, before certain vowels or stressed vowels).
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Re: Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by LetoAtreides » 01 Sep 2010 13:05

reizoukin wrote:In natlangs, where in a word do these ejectives usually occur? (i.e, before certain vowels or stressed vowels).
In Mayan languages, they can be found in all positions, including syllable coda.

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Re: Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by reizoukin » 01 Sep 2010 13:09

LetoAtreides wrote:
reizoukin wrote:In natlangs, where in a word do these ejectives usually occur? (i.e, before certain vowels or stressed vowels).
In Mayan languages, they can be found in all positions, including syllable coda.
Allow me to reword. In Indo-European languages, where do they occur? I'm working on a Latin-Georgian project now, and I have to incorporate ejectives into Vulgar Latin.
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Re: Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by LetoAtreides » 01 Sep 2010 15:18

Ejectives don't occur in any Indo-European language, let alone Latin. See distribution of languages with ejectives worldwidehere.

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Re: Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by MrKrov » 01 Sep 2010 15:40

In Europe. Outside of Europe they may have ejectives. See Ossetic.

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Re: Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by reizoukin » 01 Sep 2010 16:11

Aw, crap. Sorry, it's late here. NOT Indo-European. Caucasian languages.

Although at this point it's no longer a "quick question".
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Re: Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by MrKrov » 01 Sep 2010 17:25

How weird would it be to derive a definite article from the equivalent of "said"?

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Re: Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by Maximillian » 02 Sep 2010 19:51

MrKrov wrote:How weird would it be to derive a definite article from the equivalent of "said"?
Very. :mrgreen:
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Re: Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by MrKrov » 02 Sep 2010 20:04

Guy¹, "Blah."
Guy², "Said plan is a terrible idea."

Eh?

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