(Conlangs) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

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Khemehekis
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Re: (Conlangs) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by Khemehekis » 04 Aug 2019 03:27

Thrice Xandvii wrote:
04 Aug 2019 02:17
I don't see how any word, aside from onomatopoeia, can sound like what it means. These examples you have seem to prove the point for me.
What about the booba/kiki effect?
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Post by Thrice Xandvii » 04 Aug 2019 06:57

I had never heard of that before. It certainly is interesting!

In retrospect, I implied a more wide-ranging meaning then I had intended. What I mean to say is that I don't think most words have a sound that associates very deeply with any particular meaning. Some sounds seem harder, harsher or more aggressive than others, but that's about it. There's nothing to me that makes 'honey' sound sweet, for instance.
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Re: (Conlangs) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by Salmoneus » 04 Aug 2019 13:41

Khemehekis wrote:
04 Aug 2019 03:27
Thrice Xandvii wrote:
04 Aug 2019 02:17
I don't see how any word, aside from onomatopoeia, can sound like what it means. These examples you have seem to prove the point for me.
What about the booba/kiki effect?
A very vague and general tendency that still only applies to a relatively small part of the vocabulary.

And a tendency your own examples utterly defy! I mean, nobody looking for 'sounds like what it means', on a bouba/kiki basis, would surely ever say that "man" sounds like "wiri" (a small, meek, high-pitched sound) and "little girl" sounds like "malazi" (a big, heavy, strong, low sound)!

[what the first example probably shows is how much 'sounds like' can just encode native vocabulary. It's surely no coincidence that your word for 'man' is just the Latin word with a reduplicated vowel to prevent the final consonant...]

And yes, as Thrice said, most of your words don't "sound like" what they mean at all for me, and in some cases the direct opposite.

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Re: (Conlangs) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by lsd » 04 Aug 2019 15:28

Salmoneus wrote:
04 Aug 2019 13:41
[what the first example probably shows is how much 'sounds like' can just encode native vocabulary. It's surely no coincidence that your word for 'man' is just the Latin word with a reduplicated vowel to prevent the final consonant...]
That is the goal of poetry to find what meanings sound like...
And sometime it works, but often in a same linguistic community...
A conlang built with that goal could be shared with a your L1 community...
A sort of re-onomatopoeic-lang...

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Re: (Conlangs) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by Pabappa » 04 Aug 2019 17:09

I think each of us retain inborn biases of sound associations, whether from our native languages, our adopted languages, or even our conlangs. Some may have more than others. I will never get rid of the association between /a/ and femininity that I picked up with high school Spanish. Likewise /o/ sounds intractably masculine to me, even though it is common in feminine words in my conlangs.

I could accept /wiri/ for man, ... I suspect not because of Latin, but because it has the same consonants as the English word "war". I seem to have picked up an association of /j l/ with peace and happy things, contrasting with /w r/ for violence.

My conlangs have also affected my mental associations, I think .... working with Pabappa and especially Poswa I get a lot of syllable sequences like /pipi/ and /pupu/ ... but these no longer stand out to me, since they're so common that they just sound like average words.
Sorry guys, this one has the worst sting.

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Re: (Conlangs) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by wintiver » 04 Aug 2019 23:46

A synchronic sound change question

Context:
Hiatus in my language is disallowed and there are certain diphthongs allowed and some that are not present.

For /eu/* is not allowed but there is /æu/, /iu/ and /eo/. Most of the illegal combinations I have in my language I have been able to resolve to a single monophthong or diphthong but this one seems equiprobable to me.

Actual Question:
Would it be likely to have cases where you can get the three different surface forms? For instance where if a velar consonant precedes a cluster of e and u that it'll generate say /æu/ and else where it might be /iu/?

There are more details for the context section but I parsed it down to the essentials. I hope that's clear enough. Any input you may have is greatly appreciated.

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Re: (Conlangs) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by yangfiretiger121 » 05 Aug 2019 16:28

Tones (Number/Spelling/IPA/Specs/Example)
0|Unmarked/Unmarked/Unmarked/Mid|no tone/<a> [ɔ]
1/-v/˦/High/<av> [ɔ1]
11/V́/˦ː/High long/<á> [ɔ11]
2/-x/˩˥/Rising/<ax> [ɔ2]
7/-q/˥˩/Falling/<aq> [ɔ7]
8/-g/˨/Low/<ag> [ɔ8]
27/-z/˧˦˩/Peaking/<az> [ɔ27]
72/-d/˧˩˧/Dipping/<ad> [ɔ72]

Cover symbols (IPA transcriptions of known local transcriptions (based upon calligraphy characters) provided for understanding)
/I/, <I> for the high front unrounded vowel’s, [ i], seven short tonal variants, as described in “tones” above.
/Y/, <Y> for the high front protruded vowel’s, [yʷ], seven short tonal variants, as described in “tones” above.
/Ə/, <Ə> for the mid central unrounded vowel’s, [ɿ] (IPA: [ə]), seven short tonal variants, as described in “tones” above.
/E/, <E> for the mid central rounded vowel’s, [ω] (IPA: [ə̹]), seven short tonal variants, as described in “tones” above.
/u/, <U> for the low-mid back unrounded vowel’s, [ʌ], seven short tonal variants, as described in “tones” above.
/A/, <A> for the low-mid back rounded vowel’s, [ɔ], seven short tonal variants, as described in “tones” above.

Uə́hai Creole [ʌ.ə¹¹.ɴ͡ɱɔ.i] once only had /I, i¹¹, Ə, ə¹¹, U, ʌ¹¹/ vowels with stress and the tonal system above. When stress was lost, the formerly-stressed vowels rounded to /Y, yʷ¹¹ː, E, ə̹¹¹ː, A, ɔ¹¹/. Additionally, [ŋ → w → ʍ] had happened for <o> by this point. Originally, the verb endings were <-IoI, -Ioí, -íoI, -íoí> for group 1, <-ƏoI, -Əoí, ə́oI, -ə́oí> for group 2, and <-UoI, -Uoí, -úoI, -úoí> for group 3. Is the post-stress loss respelling a plausible reason to create subgroups for <-YoI, -Ioý,-ýoI, -Íoý, -EoI, -Əoý, -éoI, -ə́oý, -AoI, -Uoý, áoI, úoý> verbs?

Lastly, does the back vowel constraint apply before, after, or adjacent to (both places) for [ɴ͡ɱ]?
Last edited by yangfiretiger121 on 05 Aug 2019 21:21, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: (Conlangs) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by ɶʙ ɞʛ » 05 Aug 2019 19:50

What do you think of these changes:

Initial:
/m n ŋ/
/p t ts k/
/b d dz g/
/f s z x h/
/w l r j/

/i e a o u/

pp tt kk > p’ t’ k’
pt pts pk > t’ ts’ k’
tp tts tk > ɓ ts’ k’ > w ts’ k’
ts > s _C
kp kt kts > ʘ ! ǀ̠ > ɓ ɗ ɗz > w l z
p’ > ɓ > w, but before consonants epenthetic ǝ is inserted.


mn mŋ > wn wŋ
nŋ nm > ɹŋ ɹm > ǝŋ ǝm
ŋm ŋn > jm wn

nC > ǝC if C is not coronal

p > pf in onset, h in coda

pf > f > h _C, also eliminating pre-existing f there

aǝ eǝ iǝ oǝ uǝ > ai e: i: o: u:

s z > ʃ ʒ next to i e

ih eh ah oh uh > ɪh ǝh ǝh ɔh ʊh, similar changes with /x/

a ɔ > ɒ, ʊ > o

Short e i > ǝ ɪ, short u > ʊ > o

ɪ > ǝ, ǝ > a

Remaining f > h, but pf word initially

g > h in coda, x in onset

/m n ŋ/
/t’ ts’ tʃ’ k’/
/pf t ts tʃ k/
/b d dz dʒ/
/s z ʃ ʒ x h/
/w l r j/

/ǝ i: a e: ɒ o: o u: ai/

Tin > ti: > tʃi:
Ti > tʃǝ
p:na > p’ǝna > wǝna > wanɒ

Also, for something unrelated, what do you think of qk > qʞ > ʛ?

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Re: (Conlangs) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by Nloki » 06 Aug 2019 17:16

Khemehekis wrote:
01 Aug 2019 06:53
Nloki wrote:
09 Jul 2019 09:13
Regarding this matter Tolkien said his (elvish) languages to have been designed with the purpose of being as beautiful as they could have been according to his phonoaesthetic taste. And I think that's what I lack: phonoaesthetic taste! (or however it could be called like). I cannot discern among lot's of different roots that could be assigned to an only meaning and I just use logical strategies to choose whether a word should be included or not. For example; nēr for "man". But then I realise Quenya already uses nér (ner-) for "man"! So I start trying to coin some monosyllabic words that could fit the purpose and I find out - I don't like any of them! (Happens always the same way) so I give up for a while just to try again and achieve doing nothing.
Maybe you could take some inspiration from Kankonian. All the native root words in Kankonian were formed to phonaesthetically sound like what they mean. A sampling:
Spoiler:
wiri: man
mopiga: woman
makeke: little boy
malazi: little girl
gudum: red
rahat: orange
hilis: yellow
kran: green
wowum: blue
kratsh: purple
blan: brown
dunia: dark brown
likt: pink
kiul: white
viriz: grey
karak: black
phizur: to sleep
howo: to wash
abam: to eat
wakhir: to drink
wana: water
pomosh: air
luoi: fire
nan: earth
lataz: metal
vare: plant
venta: animal
shoip: tomato
shoip: pulse
verim: bird
tairak: fish
peksis: insect
karmas: body
*ine (the * is a velar lateral): hair
bwolwo: eye
ne*et: nose
shpad: mouth
likak: neck
khod: ear
arig: tongue
arik: word
fulphas: cheek
stiv: shoulder
gue*: arm
angi: leg
pumus: hand
gumu: foot
puea: wind
heles: sun
varu: cloud
awivi: rain
ubru: snow
hayaz: star
huzhus: planet
rimi: long
kab: short
burk: jeavy
luskas: lightweight
phahus: deep
malis: shadow
stalaz: wide, broad
shizid: narrow
trils: high
mutz: low
badku: wall
shakti: house
yayar: to sing
oyez: to say
heyiyet: to scream
hasa: to yell
mukluk: to ask (a question)
egeletz: to ask (request)
mui: and
is: I
ar: you (sing.)
wan: she, he, it
wir: we
deir: all of you
mem: they
Thank you very much for your Kankonian wordlist, Khemehekis. Although, I'm still unsure on what should I develop first: grammar or vocabulary?

Anyway, another doubt: would it be naturalistic to create a conlang whose phonetic inventory lacks any sort of phonemic voiced consonant, relying on allophony to produce them?
Spoiler:
Thus:
¶Ancient Jehoeian:
•Phonemes:
/ˀm̥ ˀn̪̊ n ˀŋ̊/
/p b t̪ d̪ c ɟ k g/
/ɸ θ s̠ ɹ̠̊˔ ç ɧ/
/l̥ l̥̃/
/i iː ɯ ɯː/
/e e̞ː ɤ ɤ̞ː/
/ɐ äː/
•Allophony:
—Word finally unstressed /e/ turns [ə].
—/p t̪ c k/ - [b d̪ ɟ g] between voiced vowels.
—/ɸ θ ɹ̠̊˔ ç ɧ/ - [β̞ ð̞ ɾ j ɰ] between voiced vowels.
—/ˀm̥ ˀn̪̊ ˀŋ̊/ - [m n ŋ] between voiced vowels and /m̥ n̥ ŋ̊/ between voiceless ones.
—/l̥ l̥̃/ - [l lː] between voiced vowels —/l̥̃/ - [l̥ː] between voiceless vowels.
—Word-initial vowels will be preceded by [ʔ].
•Phonotactics: (C)Vi̯(K).
K = /n t̪ k θ s̠ ɹ̠̊˔ l̥/.

¶Allophonical syllable phonation:
In all Jehoeian languages except those in the branch leading to Jhaesian, syllables take different phonation patterns depending on their stress.
Unstressed syllables may be voiced or voiceless. That is, if the onset on an unstressed syllable is voiceless, either syllable nucleus and coda will also be voiceless. If, on the other hand, the onset is voiced, the nucleus, the coda of that syllable and the coda of the previous syllable will be voiced too.
However, stressed syllables undergo a different pattern. If the stressed syllable is the first one on a word, its onset can be either voiced or voiceless. Syllable nuclei are always voiced, and codas depend on the phonation of the likely unstressed next syllable.
If it turns out that the stressed syllable is not the first on a word (likely to happen in compounding), then whether the onset is voiced or voiceless will depend on the phonation of the previous (and again likely unstressed) syllable.

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Re: (Conlangs) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by Ahzoh » 06 Aug 2019 23:42

I have two civilizations in relatively constant contact with each other by way of coastal trade, despite the two civilizations being hundreds of kilometres apart. But the contact is frequent enough that one civilization adopts the writing system of the other.

Problem is one of the languages has clicks and the other doesn't but I don't want the language without clicks to adopt the clicks. How do I avoid this?
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Re: (Conlangs) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by Keenir » 07 Aug 2019 00:02

Ahzoh wrote:
06 Aug 2019 23:42
I have two civilizations in relatively constant contact with each other by way of coastal trade, despite the two civilizations being hundreds of kilometres apart. But the contact is frequent enough that one civilization adopts the writing system of the other.

Problem is one of the languages has clicks and the other doesn't but I don't want the language without clicks to adopt the clicks. How do I avoid this?
don't put clicks in the script...then have most of the trade done by 90% paperwork, 10% pidgin.
(or numbers roundabout thereabouts)
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Re: (Conlangs) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by shimobaatar » 07 Aug 2019 04:25

Ahzoh wrote:
06 Aug 2019 23:42
I have two civilizations in relatively constant contact with each other by way of coastal trade, despite the two civilizations being hundreds of kilometres apart. But the contact is frequent enough that one civilization adopts the writing system of the other.

Problem is one of the languages has clicks and the other doesn't but I don't want the language without clicks to adopt the clicks. How do I avoid this?
If I understand the question/situation correctly, my short answer is to avoid having bilingualism become widespread among the general population of the society with the non-click language. Even if they adopt the click language's writing system and take in a number of loanwords originally containing clicks, it's not hard for me to imagine the vast majority of speakers who don't active engage in trade just simply not using clicks.

The longer answer I typed out to reach the above conclusion:

I don't think you really have to do anything to avoid it other than simply decide that it doesn't happen. Speakers of the language without clicks not adopting clicks doesn't stand out to me as unnatural or as something that needs a complicated justification, even if they frequently engage in trade with speakers of the click language and adopt their writing system. Even if they borrow words from the click language and write them as they're written in the language of origin, with characters meant to represent clicks, it doesn't really seem strange to me for the vast majority of speakers to not pronounce those words with clicks.

The real-world example I'm thinking of is Persian, which adopted the Arabic script after prolonged contact with/influence from speakers of Arabic. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, of course, but from what I understand, the Persian alphabet contains several pairs/sets of letters that are all pronounced the same in Persian, but remain in use, primarily in Arabic loanwords, because they reflect distinct Arabic phonemes that Persian speakers do not distinguish, despite their language's history of Arabic influence.

Of course, there are also real-world instances of language contact that could be used to justify the adoption of clicks, if that were desired, but the point I want to make is that neither option (adopting clicks vs. not adopting clicks) feels like it requires a whole lot of justification beyond saying "this is what I want to happen, so this is what happens". If anything, given how rare clicks are as phonemes in natural languages, I'd say that having speakers of the click-less language adopt clicks would require more justification, such as having the two groups be closer geographically and/or having some level of proficiency in the click language become common among a significant portion of speakers of the non-click language. Although, if clicks are more common in this setting, and/or you aren't concerned with what seems naturalistic based on our world's languages, you should of course feel free to disregard this.

Zekoslav wrote:
27 Jul 2019 14:57
I haven't decided where the language would be spoken or when would it split from other Romance languages. Right now, I have a feeling that in order to preserve the case system it would have to be a Sardinian- or at least Romanian-like outlier, and that will obviously have consequences for the vowel system, for palatalisation and for other things.
Ah, sorry, my mistake. I think I jumped to that conclusion based off of just a line or two in the original post.
Zekoslav wrote:
27 Jul 2019 14:57
Which prepositions go with which cases seems to depend mainly on which Proto-Indo-European cases merged with which other cases in the development of individual languages. PIE cases had rather specific if generic roles, like Nom: subject, Acc: direct object and movement into, Dat: indirect object and movement to but not into, Abl: movement away from, Loc: stationary position, Inst: Agents, Instruments and generic adverbials.
Oh, I didn't mean to imply I didn't understand the reason for the difference between various IE languages in terms of the relationships between prepositions and cases. I intended to suggest that, if speakers of this hypothetical Romance language had prolonged contact with, for instance, speakers of Greek or a Germanic language, this could potentially result in them shifting away somewhat from the preposition-case relationships that naturally arose in Latin, depending on the nature/degree/duration of this contact/influence.

I realize this is a rather late response, and you seem to have come to some more interesting conclusions, but I just wanted to try to clarify myself here. [:)]
Zekoslav wrote:
30 Jul 2019 12:08
Since morphology is what started this inquiry, let's take another look at the morphology:

Code: Select all

  - |   sg.   |   pl.   | - |   sg.   |   pl.   |
| N |  -US    |  -Ī     | N |  -A     |  -Æ     |
| A |  -UM    |  -ŌS    | A |  -AM    |  -ĀS    |
| G |  -ĪS    |  -ŌRUM  | G |  -ÆS    |  -ĀRUM  |
| D |  -Ī     |  -ŌRUM  | D |  -Æ     |  -ĀRUM  |
I wanted to preserve an ultimately lost Vulgar Latin 1st declension genitive ending -ÆS. This ending would reintroduce a morphological distinction between the genitive and the dative in the 1st declension, and could be easily copied by the 2nd declension giving -ĪS from older and attested -Ī. As for the dative ending -Ī, I took it over from the pronominal declension: apparently it was quite common in earlier written and presumably spoken (this would be a predecessor to "standar" Vulgar Latin ILLUĪ and ILLÆĪ) Latin to have ILLĪ for the masculine/neuter and ILLÆ for the feminine. As for the plural, merging the two cases seemed natural given that all languages except Sardinian derive their dative plural from the genitive.

Now, preserving -ÆS requires preserving final /s/, so preserving the distinction between the Nom and the Acc arose naturally as a consequence. This also means the language probably can't be a too close relative of Romanian.

What do you think about this paradigm (sound changes are WIP... I'm leaning towards the Sardinian development of vowels since that would mean 3rd declension endings G -IS, D -Ī become the same as the 2nd declension ones.)?
Looks good to me! I like and agree with your reasoning behind choosing the suffixes you have. I'm glad that the loss of certain forms in real-world Vulgar Latin hasn't deterred you from using them; I think that allowing little "stretches" like that can make a posteriori more fun. I think I'd also lean towards having the vowels develop as they did in Sardinian, if you're still looking for input on that.

wintiver wrote:
04 Aug 2019 23:46
A synchronic sound change question

Context:
Hiatus in my language is disallowed and there are certain diphthongs allowed and some that are not present.

For /eu/* is not allowed but there is /æu/, /iu/ and /eo/. Most of the illegal combinations I have in my language I have been able to resolve to a single monophthong or diphthong but this one seems equiprobable to me.

Actual Question:
Would it be likely to have cases where you can get the three different surface forms? For instance where if a velar consonant precedes a cluster of e and u that it'll generate say /æu/ and else where it might be /iu/?

There are more details for the context section but I parsed it down to the essentials. I hope that's clear enough. Any input you may have is greatly appreciated.
If I understand what you're asking correctly, I'm not sure how likely I'd say it is, but it is indeed possible for the qualities of vowels to be influenced by surrounding consonants. Uvulars having a lowering effect is fairly common, from what I understand, so I don't think it's completely out of the question for velars to lower /e/ to [æ] to avoid an illegal sequence of vowels.

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Re: (Conlangs) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by Xonen » 07 Aug 2019 20:47

Nloki wrote:
06 Aug 2019 17:16
Anyway, another doubt: would it be naturalistic to create a conlang whose phonetic inventory lacks any sort of phonemic voiced consonant, relying on allophony to produce them?
I was going to answer "probably not", but now that I think about it... maybe?

The problem is that the default realization of nasals and approximants seems to be voiced in pretty much all natlangs that have them. Reason being, apparently, (at least partially) that their unvoiced counterparts are not acoustically very salient, and thus have a tendency to either become voiced, turn into fricatives, or simply get dropped.

However, there are both natlangs that lack nasals and ones that lack approximants (or have them only allophonically), so... Combine these and yes, I guess you could conceivably have a more or less naturalistic language without phonemic voiced consonants.

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Re: (Conlangs) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by Ælfwine » 08 Aug 2019 05:40

I'm trying to determine the phonemic status of [ə] in my language, i.e. whether it counts as a real phoneme (like in German, Dutch, English) or as a variant of some other phoneme (like Norwegian).

So far, the phoneme only occurs in unstressed syllables. While loanwords are introducing other vowels in unstressed syllables, natively, it does not contrast with any other phoneme there. It arose from the development of all vowels > schwa in unstressed syllables.

So, would schwa be a phoneme? Or would it be an allophone of some other phoneme? (Not quite sure why <e> became popular in French, German and Danish for this sound.)
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Re: (Conlangs) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by Salmoneus » 08 Aug 2019 15:39

Ælfwine wrote:
08 Aug 2019 05:40
I'm trying to determine the phonemic status of [ə] in my language, i.e. whether it counts as a real phoneme (like in German, Dutch, English) or as a variant of some other phoneme (like Norwegian).
It's debatable - and indeed debated - whether it's a phoneme in English. Indeed, in some dialects (with the weak vowel merger) it's probably less phonemic than you suggest it is in your language.

I'd suggest a different question. Rather than ask "is this truly phonemic?", I'd ask "doesn't it matter?"

[and remember that there's no fact of the matter about what's a phoneme and what isn't. Phonemes don't actually exist in any concrete way. They're hypotheticals conjured up for the purposes of analysis by linguists, and there may often by multiple analyses possible. [for instance, if a language allows [ke] and [ci], but doesn't have [c] occur anywhere other than before , and doesn't have occur anywhere other than after [c], does the language have /c/ (and allophonic raising of /e/ after it) or does it have /i/ (and allophonic palatalisation of /k/ before it), or both, or neither (but some third, suprasegmental feature)?]]

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Post by this_is_an_account » 08 Aug 2019 18:56

I'm thinking of making a Slavic language spoken in southern Thrace. The problem is I have no idea how to go about this. I've never made a conlang decended from a natlang before, and I don't know very much at all about Slavic languages. Any tips on the matter would be appreciated.

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Re: (Conlangs) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by Ælfwine » 08 Aug 2019 20:57

Salmoneus wrote:
08 Aug 2019 15:39
Ælfwine wrote:
08 Aug 2019 05:40
I'm trying to determine the phonemic status of [ə] in my language, i.e. whether it counts as a real phoneme (like in German, Dutch, English) or as a variant of some other phoneme (like Norwegian).
It's debatable - and indeed debated - whether it's a phoneme in English. Indeed, in some dialects (with the weak vowel merger) it's probably less phonemic than you suggest it is in your language.

I'd suggest a different question. Rather than ask "is this truly phonemic?", I'd ask "doesn't it matter?"

[and remember that there's no fact of the matter about what's a phoneme and what isn't. Phonemes don't actually exist in any concrete way. They're hypotheticals conjured up for the purposes of analysis by linguists, and there may often by multiple analyses possible. [for instance, if a language allows [ke] and [ci], but doesn't have [c] occur anywhere other than before , and doesn't have occur anywhere other than after [c], does the language have /c/ (and allophonic raising of /e/ after it) or does it have /i/ (and allophonic palatalisation of /k/ before it), or both, or neither (but some third, suprasegmental feature)?]


So are you suggesting it is likely to be phonemic? For the most part I define a phoneme as a sound that can be easily contrasted with another sound by a native speaker (although i am sure this definition has its own problems.) Notably, my book on Crimean Gothic reconstructs it as a phoneme, although it doesn't explain why, I am tempted to just take its word for it.

This is partially an aesthetic choice, mind you, as I mull over whether I should use <ъ> or <е> for /ə/, the former inspired by Bulgarian and the latter by German, although if it is a strongly contrastive phoneme I might gravitate to use the former over the latter.

this_is_an_account wrote:
08 Aug 2019 18:56
I'm thinking of making a Slavic language spoken in southern Thrace. The problem is I have no idea how to go about this. I've never made a conlang decended from a natlang before, and I don't know very much at all about Slavic languages. Any tips on the matter would be appreciated.


I'd message Zekoslav, he could probably help you out further. I'd reckon this language of yours to be conservative (for being on the periphery on the Slavic speaking world) and highly influenced by Greek. Perhaps finding resources on some southern Bulgarian dialects would be a good start.
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An unnamed Semitic language spoken in the Caucus.

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Re: (Conlangs) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by yangfiretiger121 » 08 Aug 2019 23:42

After reading this, I'm beginning to think the <ƾ> in Imperial Creole's sjaxƾ and its derivatives should always be pronounced [ŋ] and, therefor, never [ɴ] because I'm pegging the original usage of sjaxƾ [çɔ˩˥ŋ] as jin in Japanese with usage expanded to include names because the language is officially only to be Romanized in lower case. While the natural solution is splitting the usages up, I like the idea of having a unified element for both items as they're related. If I keep the meanings unified, is a [çɔ˩˥ŋ → çɔ˩˥ɴ] pronunciation shift likely after names, like Tjyou [c͡çy.ʍʌ] (capitalized for understanding due to absence of affix)?
Alien conlangs (Font may be needed for Vai symbols)

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Re: (Conlangs) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by Khemehekis » 11 Aug 2019 01:24

Thrice Xandvii wrote:
04 Aug 2019 06:57
I had never heard of that before. It certainly is interesting!
Yep. Some people say we all have a bit of synaesthesia, with Exhibit A being the bouba/kiki effect. My synaesthesia certainly helps me in coining root words for Kankonian!

I noticed the Wikipedia article said that among autists and Aspies, fewer than 60% had the usual associations. Aspies may be the opposite of synaesthetes in this regard, and that leads to an interesting question: do conlangers on the spectrum have a harder time than others creating vocabulary?
In retrospect, I implied a more wide-ranging meaning then I had intended. What I mean to say is that I don't think most words have a sound that associates very deeply with any particular meaning. Some sounds seem harder, harsher or more aggressive than others, but that's about it. There's nothing to me that makes 'honey' sound sweet, for instance.
Oh. I don't think "honey" sounds very sweet, either. I definitely think the Kankonian word for honey, yeshiki, sounds like honey though. The /j/ reflects the colloidal, almost-liquid nature of honey, while the /ʃ/ sounds sugary. The /k/ reflects the arboreal origin of honey -- people usually get it in the wild from beehives in trees (although that's not the way beekeepers normally get their honey). The front vowels give it a soft, friendly feeling.

Now, miel, that's more honey-like.
♂♥♂♀

Squirrels chase koi . . . chase squirrels

My Kankonian-English dictionary: 60,137 words and counting

31,416: The number of the conlanging beast!

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Re: (Conlangs) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by Khemehekis » 11 Aug 2019 01:46

Salmoneus wrote:
04 Aug 2019 13:41
And a tendency your own examples utterly defy! I mean, nobody looking for 'sounds like what it means', on a bouba/kiki basis, would surely ever say that "man" sounds like "wiri" (a small, meek, high-pitched sound) and "little girl" sounds like "malazi" (a big, heavy, strong, low sound)!

[what the first example probably shows is how much 'sounds like' can just encode native vocabulary. It's surely no coincidence that your word for 'man' is just the Latin word with a reduplicated vowel to prevent the final consonant...]
I could have just been thinking of the Anglo-Saxon "were" as in "werewolf", which I believe is cognate with the Latin. However, wiri is one of the oldest words in Kankonian. Before I seriously set out to create the Kankonian language, I Syldavianishly created the Kankonian National Anthem, with the line "wili mui vespiga" (for "man and woman"). The opening like "Kankonia, ar esinas" was translated "Kankonia, you are beautiful" and gave me the second-person singular pronoun ar and the idea of a class of stative verbs. Esin is still the word for "to be beautiful", but today it would be "Zha Kankonia, ar esinas" (a vocative preposition added). Eventually, wili was changed to wiri because (a) the R sounded "stronger" than an L and (b) who wants a word for man that sounds like the name Willie? Vespiga was changed for mopiga a few years later, to sound more feminine (M, as in "mother", "mopiga", and, yes, "malazi" has been observed to be found in words for women and girls across language phyla on Earth). One person has commented that malazi, despite its A's, sounds "very twee".
And yes, as Thrice said, most of your words don't "sound like" what they mean at all for me, and in some cases the direct opposite.
How about burk for heavy, bwolwo for eye, or wowum for blue? Those sound absolutely perfect to me! (And not similar to the words therefor in any language I know, like wiri/vir, either.)





Here are some words for beverages in Kankonian, and their English equivalents. Let's see who can do the best job of guessing which words means which drink.

bozhupam
foyeth
fumis
khour
swesi
tzeimoa
tzin
vropuwa
wana
welt

beer
coffee
gin
hot chocolate
juice
milk
soda, soft drink
tea
water
wine
♂♥♂♀

Squirrels chase koi . . . chase squirrels

My Kankonian-English dictionary: 60,137 words and counting

31,416: The number of the conlanging beast!

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