Mmh, I guess that sentence was a bit vaguely even with the "at all".shimobaatar wrote: ↑28 Dec 2018 13:57Ohh, got it. My mistake. When you said "I know phonemic R-coloured consonants are (almost certainly) unattested and probably the only languages that ever have them at all are American English and Mandarin Chinese" (emphasis mine), I interpreted "them" as referring back to "phonemic R-coloured consonants", not just "R-coloured consonants". I know exactly what you mean now.
Just CV(C), where every consonant can appear both initially and finally. So, the best solution would probably be to have /Cʴ/ > [Cʴɚ] word-finally if the following word starts with a consonant and having word-final [ə] become [ɚː] after the R-coloured consonants to distinguish the two; that could then be said to be a borderline phonemic /əː/, which would go nicely with the phonemic vowel length of other vowels. That's realistic enough, right?shimobaatar wrote: ↑28 Dec 2018 13:57I don't think you'd absolutely have to have r-coloring spread to the consonants beyond the vowels adjacent to the originally r-colored consonants, but I also don't think it's a problem if you want to have r-coloring only spread regressively/leftward. And yeah, you should be fine making the schwa an exception if you don't want /ɚ/. I don't know what you have in mind for the phonotactics of this language, but if you weren't planning on allowing final r-colored consonants, maybe you could have something like /Cʴ/ > [Cʴɚ] / _#?
Yeah, I knew about Yurok and its rhotic madness.
Well, any kind of "proper" rhotic harmony is the last thing I want. I mean, as fun as rhotic vowels and whatnot are, having too many of them gets a bit annoying.Nortaneous wrote: ↑28 Dec 2018 21:41R-coloring is also common in Qiangic, so you could look there for precedent as to how rhotic harmony would work -- IIRC (could be wrong, haven't checked in ages and don't have time to rn) Ronghong Qiang has rhotic harmony but it doesn't spread over an entire word like it does in Yurok.
More or less realistically speaking, maybe /ɺ/ or something?
Even though I mostly agree, I'll have to say that if there was a language with /t̼͡r̼̊ʰ/ where related languages had /j/ or something, that'd be pretty interesting. Might not make the language as a whole inherently interesting, but at least in my opinion it would make it more interesting than the related languages unless they had other features that were more interesting.Salmoneus wrote: ↑28 Dec 2018 21:40I don't think I've ever seen a language become "interesting" by having a "strange phoneme". If the language is interesting, it'll still be interesting if you take the strange phoneme out; if it's not interesting without a strange phoneme, there's no phoneme in the world strange enough to make it interesting.
I'm not entirely sure, but I think in the Turkic languages with pitch accent there tends to be some kind of quality difference as well. Or at least in Turkish, I'm fairly certain... but I could be wrong since I totally suck at hearing stress of any kind unless it's the kind of lengthening like in Romance languages. Well, in Japanese the pitch differences are often obvious and often pleasant-sounding and as such more noticeable, but like Zekoslav said, there's (almost certainly) no difference in quality (at least in standard Japanese, dunno about dialects).
Obviously my problems are caused by being Finnish, since Finnish has fixed initial stress and what the actual defining difference between stressed and unstressed syllables is is anyone's guess. Maybe it really is just loudness or whatever, but I doubt that.
This. I barely ever think about concultures first, it's almost always conlang first and then conculture later (if ever). What I like to do is come up with some "symbol" simply to name the language, and from there all the conculture stuff starts flowing uncontrollably. For example, an animal/element/object/whatever that would be culturally significant to its speakers, or a combination of animals and elements or whatever. For example, "water elephant". If you can't think of a justification for why the language's speakers would want to call their language "water elephant language", add a word like "hunter" or something and voilà! Then you can make "water elephant" mean whale (or hippo or whatever), and you'd have "whale-hunter language".