What did you accomplish today?

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Inkcube-Revolver
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Re: What did you accomplish today?

Post by Inkcube-Revolver » 15 May 2017 18:09

Firstly, very hungry for that plate of food there. Secondly, I agree with Elemtilas, the irregularity looks great and the way Pazmat works around the irregularities is very interesting. It's easy to say to just get over your weird hang-ups, but your only real options are to either continue working around them or just ignore them. I do a lot of both, and I've been swamped in phonotactics and phonology for one conlang for eight months.

EIGHT.

MONTHS.

This was not the time length I anticipated for working on this single facet of the language, and some days working on actual grammar seems like a pipe dream.
My goal was originally to have the phonological changes be consistent from one protolang to another, but with gradual rooms for error, and to fit in line with an original list of words I made back in September that fit the scheme. If they do, I pat my back until I find one that doesn't, rinse and repeat until my hands have long gone pruney and shriveled, and sounds are the only things I can see.
I like my languages how I like my women: grammatically complex with various moods and tenses, a thin line between nouns and verbs, and dozens upon dozens of possible conjugations for every single verb.

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Chagen
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Re: What did you accomplish today?

Post by Chagen » 16 May 2017 19:53

I've run into yet another problem with Pazmat ablaut. So, <a> and <e> normally have the grades a > ē > ey and e > ī > ay. However, arC and erC have completely different grades (arV and erV do not, they behave as normal):
vat-"look at" > vētana"I am looking at" > veytubbī"I begin to look at"
gard-"replace" > gōdana"I am replacing" > gaudubbī"I begin to replace"
geg-"believe" > gīgena"I am believing" > gaygubbī"I begin to believe"
wers-"defend" > wūsena"I am defending" > wōsubbī"I begin to defend"

However, other VrC verbs act identically to their VC counterparts, e.g:
cidh-"boil" > caudhitha"it is boiling" > cūdhubbū"it begins to boil"
kirt-"approach" > kaurtitha"he is approaching" > kūrtubbū"he begins to approach"

I have no real reason for this. There simply isn't a logical explanation for why -arC and -erC verbs would ablaut differently. And these ablauts are from the very first work I've done on this language. I just can't throw 'em away no matter how much I try. I could make the irC-, urC-, and -orC verbs irregular too, but that would add a bunch of unnecessary complexity.

The long grade of burst-"feel" is boyrst-(boyrstuna"I am feeling"). I'm honestly not sure whether this is super ugly or not. At the same time I have no idea what I'd want -oy- to become if I really didn't want it there. I do have a new rule in place which simplifies diphthongs in certain positions, namely before a geminate semivowel, and I could apply it here, but eeeeehhhh

And that doesn't even work because it doesn't make sense. If I choose to simplify diphthongs before an -rC- sequence, why would -ārC and -ērC ablaut differently? They would become -ērC and -īrC: no diphthongs to simplify!

(originally, the idea was: -ārC > -auC > ōC and -ērC > -euC > ūC, but this doesn't make sense because <au> normally stays all the way to Modern Pazmat and <eu> became <ō> post-Middle Pazmat. I GUESS I could say that, say, -ārC became -āuC and āu > ō, likewise with -ērC becoming -ēuC and ēu > ū. Deriving a set of long diphthongs and doing wacky things with them might be fun...)

Ugh. I think I need to just let it go and keep this as an ugly but unfixable relic of Pazmat's older days. -arC and -erC have irregular ablaut but -irC, -urC, and -orC don't I guess. Either that or I will make the other -VrC roots kinda irregular but in a way that doesn't really mesh with the original two. Also, this would probably result in those other -VrC being irregular in in only one grade (whichever would normally have a diphthong), which is...weird.

Sorry this post is so long and somewhat confusing, I make these mostly as a vent and to collect my musings since I come up with stuff better when venting to others for inexplicable reasons. That's why they tend to presume at least minor knowledge of Pazmat and go kinda fast.

I should start work on a new post in my Pazmat topic. I think I work better when explaining things like a teacher than coldly and dispassionately working with charts and forms.
Nūdenku waga honji ma naku honyasi ne ika-ika ichamase!
female-appearance=despite boy-voice=PAT hold boy-youth=TOP very be.cute-3PL
Honyasi zō honyasi ma naidasu.
boy-youth=AGT boy-youth=PAT love.romantically-3S

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Re: What did you accomplish today?

Post by Chagen » 16 May 2017 22:49

Double post, but I just came up with this and I love it:

savurayyaśamāmi...
Since (he) will want to visit (soon)...

And if you need to make it even longer...

savurayyaśamallītāmi..
Given that (he) (soon) will want to visit (us) so strongly...

Actually I think I can stretch these participles even further:

būrstayurayyṛtallītāva
(That time) when I so badly had wanted to make (her) feel
Nūdenku waga honji ma naku honyasi ne ika-ika ichamase!
female-appearance=despite boy-voice=PAT hold boy-youth=TOP very be.cute-3PL
Honyasi zō honyasi ma naidasu.
boy-youth=AGT boy-youth=PAT love.romantically-3S

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Re: What did you accomplish today?

Post by qwed117 » 16 May 2017 23:35

Chagen wrote:Double post, but I just came up with this and I love it:

savurayyaśamāmi...
Since (he) will want to visit (soon)...

And if you need to make it even longer...

savurayyaśamallītāmi..
Given that (he) (soon) will want to visit (us) so strongly...

Actually I think I can stretch these participles even further:

būrstayurayyṛtallītāva
(That time) when I so badly had wanted to make (her) feel
I love the aesthetic of Pazmat. [<3] [<3] [<3] [<3] [<3]
Spoiler:
My minicity is Zyphrazia and Novland
What is made of man will crumble away.

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loglorn
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Re: What did you accomplish today?

Post by loglorn » 16 May 2017 23:52

qwed117 wrote:
Chagen wrote:Double post, but I just came up with this and I love it:

savurayyaśamāmi...
Since (he) will want to visit (soon)...

And if you need to make it even longer...

savurayyaśamallītāmi..
Given that (he) (soon) will want to visit (us) so strongly...

Actually I think I can stretch these participles even further:

būrstayurayyṛtallītāva
(That time) when I so badly had wanted to make (her) feel
I love the aesthetic of Pazmat. [<3] [<3] [<3] [<3] [<3]
damn ninjas...
Diachronic Conlanging is the path to happiness, given time. [;)]

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Re: What did you accomplish today?

Post by cedh » 17 May 2017 08:28

Chagen wrote:I've run into yet another problem with Pazmat ablaut. [...]
I would tackle this problem diachronically. Suppose all Vr ablaut variants were regular at one point:
CarC CaˑrC CaːrC
CerC CeˑrC CeːrC
CirC CiˑrC CiːrC
CorC CoˑrC CoːrC
CurC CuˑrC CuːrC

Then, *r is deleted under certain circumstances, affecting the preceding vowel in some way. Currently it looks like *r > u̯ /{a,e}{ˑ,ː}_C only (as you said yourself), followed by monophthongization of long diphthongs. If you have a clash with other, pre-existing diphthongs with u-offglides, what about having the first step of r-lenition be a different approximant or rhotic that doesn't exist in either Pazmat or Proto-Pazmat? I don't know which sounds would fall under this condition, but some possibilities would be [ɾ], [ɹ], [ð̞], [ɰ], [ʁ̞], or [ɦ]. Then you can lenite *r in all V{ˑ,ː}_C situations and have the resulting combinations of a vowel followed by this approximant develop in a distinct way compared to other vowel-approximant combinations.

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Inkcube-Revolver
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Re: What did you accomplish today?

Post by Inkcube-Revolver » 18 May 2017 18:12

Chagen, this may have been something you've considered before, but you can also work back diachronically and see how those -ar- and -er- forms came about, like maybe the <r> was an infix in an older stage of Pazmat, and stuck itself to the verbs of a developing or already present ablaut system that changed the way the morphology works. If you go through this route, you can even have a related language where that didn't happen and see the consequences/effects of morphology in that instance.
It could have been more regular in Pazmat's early history, and with the addition of the Vr- forms also triggering ablaut as one unit, you can play with those results.
Here's an example just to get the idea across:

*wat- "look at" > vat-
*wētana? *wātana > vētana
*wētubbī (broken up as diphthong) > veytubbī

*wart- "stare, gaze at" > **vart-
*wartana > **vōtana
**wartubbī> *wōtubbī > **vautubbī

*gad- "return (something)"
*gādana > **gēdana
*gētubbī > **geytubbī

gard- "replace"
*gardana > gōdana
**gardubbī > *gōdubbī > gaudubbī

So the <r> could have acted as an intensifier in the early stages, and would have originally blocked lengthening of the preceding vowel or would even be deleted after certain vowels, lengthening them in the process, which would later be discarded with verbs like burst-, which may have looked differently (not sure how the full forms in Pazmat look). Or verbs like burst- indicate how the other grades should reflect the ones without rhotics, explaining why ir-, or-, and ur- may be the way they are.

I don't know how much this helps, or, again, if you've already considered this option.
I like my languages how I like my women: grammatically complex with various moods and tenses, a thin line between nouns and verbs, and dozens upon dozens of possible conjugations for every single verb.

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Re: What did you accomplish today?

Post by alynnidalar » 18 May 2017 20:31

Been having fun today! I was complaining to myself that I'd like to get back in the habit of adding new words to Tirina regularly, as well as more "families" of words descended from Old Tirina roots. I'm not a huge fan of compound nouns in Tirina (Azen is more comfortable with them, but Tirina just... isn't), but it occurred to me that noun-adjective compounds fit a lot better. (I already had a few in Modern Tirina, in fact!)

So, I started coming up with some meaningful compounds in Old Tirina that might end up in Modern Tirina. I was doing them by hand, then ended up copying my Old Tirina adjectives and nouns into Excel and using it to randomly stick two together. Of course not all of the combinations turn out, but I've come up with a decent-sized list of compound that I quite like! As an additional bonus, it's helping shape some of my ideas about the culture of the Old Tirina speakers--something I don't know all that much about yet.

I doubt all of these compounds will "stick", but here's a few I've created descendants of for Modern Tirina:

grān krami lit. "empty heart", meaning "someone who's not very smart" -> kanami "a flake, an airhead"
emgaos fetar lit. "rigid bone", meaning the bones of the legs and arms -> inosedarn "femur"
tael inog lit. "totally freckled" -> taelinin "light-skinned person"

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Re: What did you accomplish today?

Post by Inkcube-Revolver » 18 May 2017 23:07

@alynnidalar,

What are the sound changes going on that produce those results? They look very interesting, especially the first set of compounds
I like my languages how I like my women: grammatically complex with various moods and tenses, a thin line between nouns and verbs, and dozens upon dozens of possible conjugations for every single verb.

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Re: What did you accomplish today?

Post by Axiem » 21 May 2017 03:26

I reproduced a bunch of algebra work to figure out where I got my star's mass size from given the length of Mto's year...

I really ought to blog that one, just so I can find it again without working through the math a third time.
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alynnidalar
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Re: What did you accomplish today?

Post by alynnidalar » 23 May 2017 17:22

Inkcube-Revolver wrote:@alynnidalar,

What are the sound changes going on that produce those results? They look very interesting, especially the first set of compounds
Ahh, my one weakness!

Honestly, the Tirina sound changes are not necessarily very "sensible", and they're a bit of a mess. But it is what it is.

For grān krami > kanami, the major things that are going on are the loss of /r/ after /k g/, the loss of vowel length, /g/ > /k/, and /ng/ > /ŋ/ > /n/.

/g/ totally disappears by the time of Modern Tirina, but it leaves some interesting stuff behind.

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Re: What did you accomplish today?

Post by Ahzoh » 23 May 2017 17:56

I wrote the first page to a short horror story.
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Re: What did you accomplish today?

Post by DesEsseintes » 23 May 2017 18:04

Ahzoh wrote:I wrote the first page to a short horror story.
Ooh! Let us see! [:D]

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Re: What did you accomplish today?

Post by Ahzoh » 23 May 2017 18:20

DesEsseintes wrote:
Ahzoh wrote:I wrote the first page to a short horror story.
Ooh! Let us see! [:D]
The highway blurred in front of them as the blistering heat floated from the asphalt. It was a hot 38 degrees here in little Grapevine, Texas. The hottest it’s ever been in decades. Travis Roland was driving some 1950s station wagon looking rather anxious as he was sipping a cup of coffee. Age and stress had worn him down into a wrinkled shadow of his former self. His interlocutor, Marcus, however, was brimming with youth and cool optimism. He was sitting beside him with his own cup of coffee. He looked at Travis calmly, “I’m glad we could meet today, Mr. Roland.” He paused, and then said, “By the look on your face, I can tell you know exactly what I’m here for.”

“I didn’t think anyone would believe me.” Travis said, “Like anyone else, I was a pretty scientific man. I didn’t believe in any ghosts or any of that supernatural stuff. I don’t know what I saw, but it was definitely a rude awakening.”

“Can you tell me everything that happened?” Marcus asked. “Everything?” Travis asked.

“Yes. Everything.” Marcus replied.
* * * * *
“It was the middle of July in the year of 1950. It was a hot day in the middle of a heat wave, much like today, but I didn’t care, I was happy. No, more than that; I was ecstatic. I was going to be a father. I rushed over from work this afternoon after I had gotten the call from Doctor Martin. I wasn’t even aware of the fact that she was pregnant, much less given birth to twins. I parked in the lot beside Baylor Hospital and approached the reception counter. Grace was up the stairs down the F hall. (unfinished)
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Re: What did you accomplish today?

Post by OTʜᴇB » 23 May 2017 19:43

I've completely reworked the font for Dijo's alphasyllabary. Instead of trying to cram everything into type-able characters and then trying to make a second font for numbers work with it, I'm using all manner of unicode characters. I'm arranging them neatly so the character code is almost like a sorting system for each symbol. for instance, all the codes beginning with 0 are for the component symbols (not numbers or punctuation or anything). Of those, the ones with a second digit of 1 are my plosives. Of those, the ones with a third digit of 1 is /p/, and the fourth digit is far the various shapes and positions for that component.

It's working wonderfully so far, and I can get everything into one font.
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Re: What did you accomplish today?

Post by KaiTheHomoSapien » 23 May 2017 20:53

Dang, I think I've just reverted my conlang back to its original four-vowel system. I put /o/ back in because I love /o/, but that's not how I originally envisioned things. Will have to see if I want these changes to be permanent.

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Re: What did you accomplish today?

Post by Axiem » 25 May 2017 04:16

:innocent-whistle:

(I would just post inline, but it's big enough that I think that's probably a bad idea)
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Re: What did you accomplish today?

Post by loglorn » 25 May 2017 04:28

Axiem wrote::innocent-whistle:

(I would just post inline, but it's big enough that I think that's probably a bad idea)
Not a perfect loop

Is triggered
Diachronic Conlanging is the path to happiness, given time. [;)]

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Re: What did you accomplish today?

Post by Axiem » 25 May 2017 04:59

Sorry, but trying to create a perfect loop from planetary orbits is a fool's game :)

The original mp4 that I used to generate the gif doesn't loop, however. When I actually get this all up on a website, I'll be posting that instead (and realistically, probably extend out the time even farther)
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Re: What did you accomplish today?

Post by Ahzoh » 25 May 2017 05:43

Axiem wrote:Sorry, but trying to create a perfect loop from planetary orbits is a fool's game :)

The original mp4 that I used to generate the gif doesn't loop, however. When I actually get this all up on a website, I'll be posting that instead (and realistically, probably extend out the time even farther)
Could you do a thing like that for my conplanet (and it's 3 moons) around the sun? I'd of course provide pertinent information.
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