What did you accomplish today?

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Thrice Xandvii
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Re: What did you accomplish today?

Post by Thrice Xandvii » 03 Jan 2018 11:39

Between some things Eldin linked to in another thread, some comparisons, a bit of combining of words, etc. I think I have created my list of verbs for the closed class of verbs in Shitaal. There are currently 17 of them, which I find to be a rather nice number... not as nice as 37, but I did want a considerably smaller collection of them.

At present, they are: be, break, come, do, get, give, go, have/hold, hit, lie, make, open, perceive, put, say, stay, and take.
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Ahzoh
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Re: What did you accomplish today?

Post by Ahzoh » 03 Jan 2018 13:35

I now have the name of the language, Onshchen, written in its script:
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It also looks like a face.
Image Ӯсцьӣ (Onschen) [ CWS ]
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Dormouse559
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Re: What did you accomplish today?

Post by Dormouse559 » 04 Jan 2018 08:31

I changed the marking of stress in Silvish. It used to be that the grave accent marked nearly all instances of final stress. Now, it still marks a final stressed syllable, but only when a word ends in <e>, <i> or <ou>, the only letters that could also appear in a final unstressed syllable.

The change makes the rule more complex, but it greatly cuts down the number of diacritics while keeping ambiguity low. For example:

Before:
En joùr, en-z-otr'Ò, en væzènt, s'approtchà du batàs e dì : Par quæ tu bàt ton às ?

After:
En jour, en-z-otr'O, en væzent, s'approtcha du batas e dì : Par quæ tu bat ton as ?

[ɛ̃ˈʑuʁ | ɛ̃n.zəˈtʁo | ɛ̃ɱ.vɛˈzɛ̃nt | sap.pʁɔˈɕa dy.bəˈtas əˈdi | paˈkɛː tyˈbat tŋ̩ˈas]


I might keep the original stress marking for dictionaries and teaching materials, à la Russian. :roll: We'll see.

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Thrice Xandvii
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Re: What did you accomplish today?

Post by Thrice Xandvii » 04 Jan 2018 10:04

I made some fledgling sentences in Shitaal:

https://www.frathwiki.com/User:Thirty7/ ... Verb_Stuff
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Re: What did you accomplish today?

Post by bbbourq » 05 Jan 2018 02:39

I have finalized the word order in Lortho:
  1. Basic word order is VSO
  2. Word order changes to SVO in the vocative case
  3. Adjectives are placed before the noun
  4. Adverbs are places after the verb
  5. The question marker (Q) is placed at the beginning of the sentence to denote a question (required)
  6. Interrogatives are placed in the appropriate order based on their role in the sentence
https://lortho.conlang.org

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Creyeditor
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Re: What did you accomplish today?

Post by Creyeditor » 05 Jan 2018 12:51

How does vocative case SVO work?
Is it like you have "Praises the man the woman." vs. "Oh father, the man praises the woman"?
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Frislander
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Re: What did you accomplish today?

Post by Frislander » 05 Jan 2018 13:42

Also having the word order change when there is a vocative NP feels highly unnatural to me. Also the phrasing is weird, because it seems to indicate that the vocative case works at the clause level, whereas in fact the opposite is the case, since the vocative is very much an adjunct to the clause (which is incidentally also why that rule feels unnatural, since an adjunct doesn't have any kind of effect on the word order of the main clause).

Otherwise the rules seem OK. Note that the thing with question words being in their original syntactic locations is called WH-in-situ.

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Re: What did you accomplish today?

Post by bbbourq » 06 Jan 2018 08:12

Frislander wrote:
05 Jan 2018 13:42
Also having the word order change when there is a vocative NP feels highly unnatural to me. Also the phrasing is weird, because it seems to indicate that the vocative case works at the clause level, whereas in fact the opposite is the case, since the vocative is very much an adjunct to the clause (which is incidentally also why that rule feels unnatural, since an adjunct doesn't have any kind of effect on the word order of the main clause).

Otherwise the rules seem OK. Note that the thing with question words being in their original syntactic locations is called WH-in-situ.
This is precisely the reason I posted it, thank you for the feedback. I wasn't 100% sure about the vocative case and I agree it feels rather unnatural; I just couldn't pinpoint it. I am still unsure how the vocative case should work in an SVO language, so I am looking for suggestions and I will need to do more research.
Creyeditor wrote:
05 Jan 2018 12:51
How does vocative case SVO work?
Is it like you have "Praises the man the woman." vs. "Oh father, the man praises the woman"?
In my mind, it is more like your second example; this is a little bit of uncharted territory for me. Honestly, I think it boils down to not knowing how to use the vocative case. Thank you both for the questions/comments.
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Frislander
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Re: What did you accomplish today?

Post by Frislander » 06 Jan 2018 13:56

bbbourq wrote:
06 Jan 2018 08:12
This is precisely the reason I posted it, thank you for the feedback. I wasn't 100% sure about the vocative case and I agree it feels rather unnatural; I just couldn't pinpoint it. I am still unsure how the vocative case should work in an SVO language, so I am looking for suggestions and I will need to do more research.
Well you really don't need to do anything more with it that just tack it on at the edge of the sentence without it really relating to the rest of it, because that's pretty much all it does.

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Re: What did you accomplish today?

Post by Reyzadren » 07 Jan 2018 01:29

Added another publication onto the Frathwiki bibliography page, which brings the total number of griuskant books to 3.

That is 1 textbook, and 2 storybooks that are completely written in griuskant.
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KaiTheHomoSapien
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Re: What did you accomplish today?

Post by KaiTheHomoSapien » 09 Jan 2018 20:52

I made a decision to add syllabic /n/ to Lihmelinyan. I originally did have it, but took it out. I think it will be cool. Syllabic resonants are underrated [:D]

Therefore the third plural present of an athematic verb like pánahmi - "I gird, surround" will contain it: panáhn̩ti

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Re: What did you accomplish today?

Post by Tuyono » 09 Jan 2018 22:24

I worked on conjunctions in Zhilaa Runju.

cii means "and" without anything too special going on.

ebe is more like "and also" - it implies that what comes after it is surprising in relation to the first part, or that the connection between the two parts isn't obvious.

These can be used to connect both verb and noun phrases.
rim would end up translated as "and", but it can only be used with verb phrases describing events, and means they happened the same time.

There are two words for "but", tian and ize. I'm still not sure what the difference is. I think one will add new contrasting information, and the other will limit the previous part of the sentence - something like X but not Y. I should find a better way to explain it but I have work tomorow [:S] Also the word for "or" is still boring but I can't think of things to do with it beyond the obvious.

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Re: What did you accomplish today?

Post by WeepingElf » 13 Jan 2018 21:51

I have discovered a new sound rule in Old Albic, the "phangcva rule". In Old Albic, there is a dissimilation rule affecting aspirated stops which resembles Grassmann's Law in Greek: of two aspirated stops, the first loses the aspiration. So /thakh/ becomes /takh/. But there is an exception: if the first aspirate is in free position (i.e., immediately before a vowel) and the second in a cluster (followed by a consonant), the second one is deaspirated. This happened in the word phangcva 'hand; five' for which this rule is named: /phaŋkhwa/ > /phaŋkwa/. (The word is a cognate of PIE *penkwe 'five'.)
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Re: What did you accomplish today?

Post by Ælfwine » 13 Jan 2018 21:56

I decided that the simple indicative past in Pelsodian is formed by adding just -t to the original form.

Here's an example:

egy dormot “I slept” (<dormo)
tĕ dormist “You slept (<dormis)
lĕ dormitt “He/She/It Slept” (dormit)

This form could be seen as either influence from Hungarian, which has -t or -ott/-ett, or simply extending -t from forms like Vulgar Latin *fabul-a-sti "you spoke." In the plurals, /t/ is added to /n/, which is the simple past tense plural marker here (1PP on -> ont).
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Re: What did you accomplish today?

Post by Reyzadren » 14 Jan 2018 00:08

Another griuskant translation of a literature source is published, and therefore it is added to the Frathwiki bibliography page.

Total griuskant books: 1 textbook, 3 storybooks.
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Ahzoh
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Re: What did you accomplish today?

Post by Ahzoh » 15 Jan 2018 10:03

A feature that I think makes Onschen distinctive is its ability to use conjugated verbs (as opposed to a bare verb root) to express possessiveness by turning them into nouns. For instance, there is a verb root ѕер ['d͡ʒer] and one of its conjugations, лунѕера [lun̪d͡ʒe'ra], is glossed as 3.ERG-NFUT-save-1.ABS, roughly meaning "they save me/us". When the agentive suffix -(и)нше is added it creates a noun meaning "my/our saviour".

More examples:

ѕер- "to save, to rescue, to remove from strife"
ѕеринше "saviour" / ѕеро "salvation"
лунѕеранше "my/our saviour" /ѕерао "my/our salvation"
лунѕеренше "your saviour" / ѕерео "your salvation"
лунѕерчинше "their saviour" / ѕерчо "their salvation"

ӯсц- "to speak"
ӯсцнше "speaker" / ӯсцо "language"
лунӯсцанше "my/our speaker" / ӯсцао "my/our language" (The alternative name for Onschen)
лунӯсценше "your speaker" / ӯсцео "your language" or "foreign language"
лунӯсцчинше "their speaker" / ӯсцчо "their language" or "foreign language"

тіол- "to help, to assist"
тіолинше "assistant" / тіоло "aid, help, asssitance"
лунтіоланше "my/our assistant" / тіолао "my/our aid"
лунтіоленше "your assistant" / тіолео "your aid"
лунтіолчинше "their assistant" /тіолчо "their aid"

грӣіс- "to watch over, to spy"
грӣісинше "guardian, soldier" / грӣісо "safety, security, protection"
лунгрӣісанше "my/our guardian" / грӣісао "my/our safety"
лунгрӣісенше "your guardian" / грӣісео "your safety"
лунгрӣісчинше "their guardian" / грӣісчо "their safety"
Image Ӯсцьӣ (Onschen) [ CWS ]
Image Śāt Wērxālu (Vrkhazhian) [ WIKI | CWS ]

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Re: What did you accomplish today?

Post by Parlox » 17 Jan 2018 04:41

I've finally finished working on and testing Hafar's verb voices. And in this process i have found that it is a pain to translate just about any phrase into Hafar.
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Re: What did you accomplish today?

Post by Fluffy8x » 17 Jan 2018 05:39

Launched a new blog where I review clongos.
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Thrice Xandvii
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Re: What did you accomplish today?

Post by Thrice Xandvii » 17 Jan 2018 08:22

Why oh why do your posts say "clongo!" For what purpose do you change the abbreviation!?
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Re: What did you accomplish today?

Post by shanoxilt » 17 Jan 2018 08:43

Thrice Xandvii wrote:
17 Jan 2018 08:22
Why oh why do your posts say "clongo!" For what purpose do you change the abbreviation!?
Such is the way of linguistic drift. I just prefer to call them "languages" myself.
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