What did you accomplish today?

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Xing
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Re: What did you accomplish today?

Post by Xing » 30 Jan 2016 21:42

Creyeditor wrote:
Xing wrote:
All consonants are allowed in coda. All consonants exect the glides /ʋ j/ are allowed in coda.
The first coda is an onset, right?
[tick]

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Re: What did you accomplish today?

Post by felipesnark » 31 Jan 2016 01:47

I came up with a reciprocal word (pronoun ???) to use with verbs in the middle voice: zikiput. Its etymology is as follows:

zik hiput
zik hipu-t
one the.other-ACC
one the other

Zikiput ruvadusaks.
zikiput ruva-du-sa-ks
RECIP love-MIDDLE-PST-3PL
They loved each other.

Zikiput isn't obligatory, but it can disambiguate a plural verb in the middle voice.
Visit my website for my blogs and information on my conlangs including Shonkasika: http://felipesnark.weebly.com/ It's a work in progress!

Keenir
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Re: What did you accomplish today?

Post by Keenir » 01 Feb 2016 10:22

I was reading about the Cadaver Synod, and this popped into my mind:

"You have misled others." = Perfect, completed = past actions.

"You are misleading others." - Imperfect, ongoing (engaging?) = present (and past) actions.

Shapt saloma dur durru
[Sapt sa.lo.ma dur dur.ru]
Shapt salom-a dur durru
3 3-PL misled
You have misled others. -- to rebuke one whose err ended with his death.

Shapte saloma dur durru
[Sapt.te sa.lo.ma dur dur.ru]
Shapt-e salom-a dur durru
3-IMP 3-PL misled
You are misleading others. -- to rebuke one whose err did not die with his death, because his followers continue his err.
At work on Apaan: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=4799

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Thrice Xandvii
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Re: What did you accomplish today?

Post by Thrice Xandvii » 01 Feb 2016 11:16

I think I found something that clarifies something that had been confusing me for a bit now...

Wikipedia's article on hentaigana led me astray into thinking that 王 was ever pronounced as "wa" in Japanese... which I had used as a dĕhrŭkda (Nephrite's hiragana) for ’e (descended from we) when all I can find points to 王 being pronounced as "ō." But... later on that same page, it talks about 衛 having a usage as a character representing "we" which seems a much better choice... especially when one considers the modern simplified version of that character is 卫, which bears a striking similarity to the glyph shape I was already using for the previous character.

So, long story short, my dĕhrŭkda glyph for "’e" changed source characters but didn't change its final shape in the language.

Neat!
Last edited by Thrice Xandvii on 02 Feb 2016 06:01, edited 1 time in total.
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Squall
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Re: What did you accomplish today?

Post by Squall » 01 Feb 2016 22:02

Who said that romlangs are useless? [:D]
We can use romlangs to learn better about real romlangs.
I have created a table of patterns of irregular verbs.

Code: Select all

INF     PRET   SUBJ  FUT   PTCP
facere  fece   facia farà  fecto
dicere  disse  dica  dirà  dicto
sapere  sepe   sapia REG   REG
potere  pute   possa REG   REG
ponere  pose   ponga porà  posto
tenere  tive   tenga terà  REG
querere quise  REG   REG   REG
trahere trasse traga trarà tracto
volere  REG    volla REG   REG (nolere, valere)
venire  vine   venga verà  REG
salire  REG    salga REG   REG
cadere  REG    caida REG   REG
legere  REG    léga  REG   lécto
The verb has a second root and that root is used in preterit, hypothetical, and personal infinitive.
The third form is different in the last syllable and is used in subjunctive and first-person of the present.

Many verbs have a fourth form, which is used for past participle and for forming nouns ending with -tione.

Code: Select all

aperire aperto; videre visto; escribere escripto; recebere recepto; protegere protecto; corregere correcto; construire constructo; premere presso; prehendere prenso; coprire coperto; frigere fricto; volver volto; solver solto; possedere possesso; elegere electo; morire morto; rompere rupto; ducere ducto; suspendere suspenso; acceptare accepto; extinguire extinto; accendere acceso; legere lécto; vincere vincto; cedere cesso; discutere discusso; metere messo; includere incluso; claudere clauso; insreire inserto; emergire emerso; salvare salvo; expellere expulso; dispersare disperso;
I also noticed that most verbs ending with -ire and conjugated with -isc- in Italian are defective in Iberian languages where they would have -isc-.
English is not my native language. Sorry for any mistakes or lack of knowledge when I discuss this language.
:bra: :mrgreen: | :uk: [:D] | :esp: [:)] | :epo: [:|] | :lat: [:S] | :jpn: [:'(]

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gestaltist
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Re: What did you accomplish today?

Post by gestaltist » 01 Feb 2016 23:09

I have created a few tentative words for my new conlang - Tsoketa. The results are promising: /vuw̃ti/ [vũdi] = "water" (from the proto-word *gʷuⁿde). /pːeku pːeu̯ʈi/ [p͜feku p͜feu̯ʈɨ] - "man" (Obl. and Nom., respectively - from the protoword *pakʷu) and /kʷːaˈʐij̃ kʷːaˈʐita/ [k͜xʷaˈʐɨ̃ k͜xʷaˈʐɨta] = "woman" (from the proto word *kʷiɳ).

Also, I wrote this: viewtopic.php?f=24&t=5247

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Re: What did you accomplish today?

Post by Omzinesý » 01 Feb 2016 23:54

I decided to combine a Bantu-ish noun class system with Celtic morphological structure with consonant mutations.

Preposition + definite article/class marker + the noun stem
Every one of them will affect the first consonant of the following morpheme/word. Class markers are similarly fused to verbs.

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Thrice Xandvii
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Re: What did you accomplish today?

Post by Thrice Xandvii » 02 Feb 2016 11:48

I officially adopted Dŭhog /də.'hok/ as the name for Project Nephrite! I also spent some time practicing writing in dĕhrŭkda, which somewhat improves my skill at reading hiragana, but since a good portion of the characters are altered/new, it is only a marginal increase at competency with that. Regardless, I enjoy the script and what little of the language I have done.

Image

(Also, this thread is a lot less fun when folks don't comment on each other's accomplishments.)
Omzinesý wrote:I decided to combine a Bantu-ish noun class system with Celtic morphological structure with consonant mutations.
[o.O]

I'd really like to see what that looks like! I'm thinking the romanization for it will be fun and messy!
Image

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Omzinesý
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Re: What did you accomplish today?

Post by Omzinesý » 02 Feb 2016 16:25

Thrice Xandvii wrote:
Omzinesý wrote:I decided to combine a Bantu-ish noun class system with Celtic morphological structure with consonant mutations.
[o.O]

I'd really like to see what that looks like! I'm thinking the romanization for it will be fun and messy!
Absolutely!

Swahili has
<ng> for /ŋg/
and
<ng'> for /ŋ/

Welsh has
<ngh> for /ŋʰ/

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Re: What did you accomplish today?

Post by Dormouse559 » 02 Feb 2016 19:11

Squall wrote:We can use romlangs to learn better about real romlangs.
That's how I use Silvish. [:)] What is your romlang's phonology like?
Squall wrote:

Code: Select all

acceptare accepto … salvare salvo … dispersare disperso
These three pairs look like errors to me. In most (all?) Romance languages, the reflexes of first conjugation verbs are highly regular, especially when they're derived from the past participles of other verbs, so the expected past participles would be "acceptato", "salvato" and "dispersato" (or, you know, the properly sound-changed equivalents). To get "accepto" and "disperso", I would make their entire conjugations direct descendants of "accipio" and "dispergo". As for explaining "salvo", you're on your own; to my knowledge, no reflex of Latin "salvo" has developed an irregular past participle, and I can't think of a reason why any would.
Squall wrote:I also noticed that most verbs ending with -ire and conjugated with -isc- in Italian are defective in Iberian languages where they would have -isc-.
What do you mean by "defective"? The definition I know is "lacking certain forms", but I haven't noticed that in Spanish, at least.

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Re: What did you accomplish today?

Post by Squall » 02 Feb 2016 23:53

Dormouse559 wrote:
Squall wrote:We can use romlangs to learn better about real romlangs.
That's how I use Silvish. [:)] What is your romlang's phonology like?
Phonemes:
/ä ɛ e i ɔ o u ã ẽ ĩ õ ũ ə/
/p t k b d g f v s z ʃ ʒ r l ɲ ʎ χ/
/ts dz dʒ tʃ/
/j w/

It lost gemination.
ce/ge became /tse dʒe/; /j/ became /ʒ/;
e- was added before impure s.
/ə/ is used between consonants in Greek clusters (pn- pt- cn- mn-).
Nasal codas were lost and made nasal vowels.
These three pairs look like errors to me. In most (all?) Romance languages, the reflexes of first conjugation verbs are highly regular, especially when they're derived from the past participles of other verbs, so the expected past participles would be "acceptato", "salvato" and "dispersato" (or, you know, the properly sound-changed equivalents). To get "accepto" and "disperso", I would make their entire conjugations direct descendants of "accipio" and "dispergo". As for explaining "salvo", you're on your own; to my knowledge, no reflex of Latin "salvo" has developed an irregular past participle, and I can't think of a reason why any would.
I fixed my list. 'Dispersare' does not exist, it is a mistake. The correct form is 'dispergere', which is not in the first conjugation.

As for 'salvo' and 'accepto', in Portuguese, they are abundant verbs, which have two redundant forms, the regular form and the irregular form. The irregular forms are more common. In Italian, those verbs are regular, but the irregular forms exist and are adjectives that mean 'safe' and 'welcome'.
However, those irregular forms do not form nouns ending with -tione.
What do you mean by "defective"? The definition I know is "lacking certain forms", but I haven't noticed that in Spanish, at least.
'Abolire' is an example that lacks the first person of the present in Spanish, but it has 'abolisco' in Italian.
English is not my native language. Sorry for any mistakes or lack of knowledge when I discuss this language.
:bra: :mrgreen: | :uk: [:D] | :esp: [:)] | :epo: [:|] | :lat: [:S] | :jpn: [:'(]

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Dormouse559
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Re: What did you accomplish today?

Post by Dormouse559 » 03 Feb 2016 00:15

Squall wrote: Phonemes:
Interesting. Where did /dz/ come from?
Squall wrote:e- was added before impure s.
Do you mean /sC/?
Squall wrote:As for 'salvo' and 'accepto', in Portuguese, they are abundant verbs, which have two redundant forms, the regular form and the irregular form. The irregular forms are more common.
I swear, Portuguese is going to be the death of me. [>_<]
Squall wrote:'Abolire' is an example that lacks the first person of the present in Spanish, but it has 'abolisco' in Italian.
And Spanish, too, apparently.

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Thrice Xandvii
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Re: What did you accomplish today?

Post by Thrice Xandvii » 03 Feb 2016 01:16

Lacks the first person... present? So there isn't a word abolo meaning "I abolish"?
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HoskhMatriarch
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Re: What did you accomplish today?

Post by HoskhMatriarch » 03 Feb 2016 02:06

I realized that the fortis series of affricates in English and German (which is also all the affricates in German that aren't from loanwords) are allophonically aspirated, which made me reconsider everything about the new phonology I've been working with as well as basically solving all the problems with the consonants I've been having. Yay, no more screwing around with phonology (except maybe vowels because they're just so complicated), time to work on the things I want to like morphology and pragmatics.
No darkness can harm you if you are guided by your own inner light

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Re: What did you accomplish today?

Post by Squall » 03 Feb 2016 02:34

Dormouse559 wrote:Interesting. Where did /dz/ come from?
/dj/ in some words: radio
The suffix -izare
Split roots: razione(reason)
Greek roots: bronze horizonte
Other non-Latin words in Romance languages: bizarro, rizo (rice), maize (corn), magazino (store), breza (breeze)
Dormouse559 wrote:Do you mean /sC/?
Yes.
Italian did not get rid of it and it messed the Italian grammar.
All words must end with vowel, so the impure s is moved to the last syllable of the previous word.
Ex: "cosa specifica" is pronounced "cosas pecifica".
Grammatical words have a special form for it. The article 'il' becomes 'lo' before it.
Dormouse559 wrote:I swear, Portuguese is going to be the death of me. [>_<]
I do not know if it is more difficult than Italian.
If you can learn French, Portuguese will be easier. [:)]
Choose the Brazilian variant because the spoken language is more divergent from the formal grammar and it is not well documented. [}:D]
Thrice Xandvii wrote:Lacks the first person... present? So there isn't a word abolo meaning "I abolish"?
Actually, the need of using the first person of present of these verbs is rare.
The conjugation sounds strange in most cases when someone tries to say it. Writers replace 'abolo' with 'I do the abolition of'.
The present of the subjunctive is also affected.

However, many of these verbs (such as explodir) do not sound weird in the defective conjugations and native speakers use them normally.
Some verbs (such as 'agir') were defective in the past, but now the defective forms are "correct".
English is not my native language. Sorry for any mistakes or lack of knowledge when I discuss this language.
:bra: :mrgreen: | :uk: [:D] | :esp: [:)] | :epo: [:|] | :lat: [:S] | :jpn: [:'(]

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Dormouse559
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Re: What did you accomplish today?

Post by Dormouse559 » 03 Feb 2016 04:58

Thrice Xandvii wrote:Lacks the first person... present? So there isn't a word abolo meaning "I abolish"?
So it would seem. Here's the conjugation on WordReference.
Squall wrote:Italian did not get rid of it and it messed the Italian grammar.
Why would that mess it up? I know some irregularity was introduced, but that doesn't seem like a problem.
Squall wrote:All words must end with vowel, so the impure s is moved to the last syllable of the previous word.
Ex: "cosa specifica" is pronounced "cosas pecifica".
That seems to violate the idea that all words must end in a vowel.
Squall wrote: I do not know if it is more difficult than Italian.
If you can learn French, Portuguese will be easier. [:)]
Choose the Brazilian variant because the spoken language is more divergent from the formal grammar and it is not well documented. [}:D]
I was more saying that because Portuguese is one of my blindspots when it comes to Romance languages. I only speak French, but I've studied multiple other Romance languages while making Silvish. Portuguese has never been among them.

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Re: What did you accomplish today?

Post by J_from_Holland » 03 Feb 2016 19:08

J_from_Holland? Are you posting here? Yes, I am. I have never stopped to develop Bløjhvåtterskyll. I've just been inactive around here for a while.

When translating stuff from Tatoeba I just realized I can say a certain thing in two ways in Bløjhvåtterskyll.

The sentence "Olav is planning to stay with us until next Monday" is translatable in these two ways:
1: Olav idaiñaiske Stahvyc hvänset báata lórtåg næsti.
2: Olav idaiñaimu stañe hvänset báata lórtåg næsti.

Sentence 1 glossed:
Olav idaiñai-ske Stah-vy-c hväns-et báata lórtåg næst(e)-i.
Olav plan-PRS stay-VN.ACC us-with until monday-ACC next-ACC.
In this case, "to stay" is translated with a verbal noun.

Sentence 2 glossed:
Olav idaiñai-mu stan-je hväns-et báata lórtåg næst(e)-i.
Olav plan-PRS.SJV stay-INF us-with until monday-ACC next-ACC.
Here, "to stay" is translated with an infinitive. Because idaiñaiske is now kinda an auxiliary verb, it gets the subjunctive mood (there's also an auxiliary mood in Bløjhvåtterskyll, but most verbs don't have that mood, hence I use the subjunctive)

Anyone wants an IPA of this sentence?
Bløjhvåtterskyll [CWS]
:nld: :mrgreen: | :eng: [:D] | :deu: [:)] | :fra: [:P] | :ell: [:$]
Youtube Channel about my conlang: Bløjhvåtterskyll Conlang Course

There might be some clickable stuff in my signature.

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Re: What did you accomplish today?

Post by qwed117 » 03 Feb 2016 22:14

Dormouse559 wrote:
Thrice Xandvii wrote:Lacks the first person... present? So there isn't a word abolo meaning "I abolish"?
So it would seem. Here's the conjugation on WordReference.
Squall wrote:Italian did not get rid of it and it messed the Italian grammar.
Why would that mess it up? I know some irregularity was introduced, but that doesn't seem like a problem.
Squall wrote:All words must end with vowel, so the impure s is moved to the last syllable of the previous word.
Ex: "cosa specifica" is pronounced "cosas pecifica".
That seems to violate the idea that all words must end in a vowel.
Squall wrote: I do not know if it is more difficult than Italian.
If you can learn French, Portuguese will be easier. [:)]
Choose the Brazilian variant because the spoken language is more divergent from the formal grammar and it is not well documented. [}:D]
I was more saying that because Portuguese is one of my blindspots when it comes to Romance languages. I only speak French, but I've studied multiple other Romance languages while making Silvish. Portuguese has never been among them.
SpanishDict seems to suggest abolo exists, but is generally unused.
Spoiler:
My minicity is Zyphrazia and Novland
What is made of man will crumble away.

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Re: What did you accomplish today?

Post by Ahzoh » 03 Feb 2016 22:15

I love SpanishDict
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Image Śāt Wērxālu (Vrkhazhian) [ WIKI | CWS ]

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Re: What did you accomplish today?

Post by qwed117 » 03 Feb 2016 22:23

Ahzoh wrote:I love SpanishDict
Our teacher screams, I quote,
/ˈspænɪʃ dik(t)s ˌʌnrɪˈlaɪəbəl/
Because, everyone knows that Spanish has no ts.
Spoiler:
My minicity is Zyphrazia and Novland
What is made of man will crumble away.

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