False cognates

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Thrice Xandvii
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Re: False cognates

Post by Thrice Xandvii » 12 Feb 2018 05:01

... but you just did make it like English whether it was on purpose or not.
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Imralu
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Re: False cognates

Post by Imralu » 12 Feb 2018 07:06

Yeah, unless you've used a word generator or derived it somehow, either diachronically or by some language-internal means and it's come from something very unlike the natlang word in question language you know (like if jeur came from giol < igola < ik+olna, for example), conlangs are not really a good source of "false cognates" because if you're just using pure inspiration, you can't say what precisely influenced your thoughts.

What I find really cool though is when some purely inspired stuff (or derived, for that matter) ends up weirdly close to natlang stuff that you definitely did not know about at the time you came up with it. For example, my pronoun system that I've carried through several langs for about the last ten years (I'm a serial monogamist with conlangs and I carry a lot forward to the next one) ... at some point I thought of putting it in Papua New Guinea as a language isolate ... I picked an uninhabited area and then saw that my pronoun system fits there pretty unremarkably.
Glossing Abbreviations: COMP = comparative, C = complementiser, ACS / ICS = accessible / inaccessible, GDV = gerundive, SPEC / NSPC = specific / non-specific, AG = agent, E = entity (person, animal, thing)
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Imralu
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Re: False cognates

Post by Imralu » 12 Feb 2018 07:19

:tan: Swahili kama "as", "like"; "if" ... borrowed from Arabic kamaa
:esp: como "as", "like" (and of course cognates in its related languages)
Glossing Abbreviations: COMP = comparative, C = complementiser, ACS / ICS = accessible / inaccessible, GDV = gerundive, SPEC / NSPC = specific / non-specific, AG = agent, E = entity (person, animal, thing)
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Shemtov
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Re: False cognates

Post by Shemtov » 13 Feb 2018 19:20

:us-pa: Lenepe /ni/ :jpn: ニ /に /ni/ "Two"
Many children make up, or begin to make up, imaginary languages. I have been at it since I could write.
-JRR Tolkien

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Vlürch
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Re: False cognates

Post by Vlürch » 15 Feb 2018 07:43

:jpn: (ko) - child
:ind: Nyishi ko - child

:es-pv: hiru - three
:tur: :kur: Zazaki hiru - three

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Shemtov
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Re: False cognates

Post by Shemtov » 21 Feb 2018 05:37

:eng: "Smack" :mex: Jacaltec <smak> /smaq'/ "To hit" :kor: 못 /mos/ [mot] "cannot" :mex: Jacaltec <Mat> "NEG." :irl: :sco: <Clann> :ita: Etruscan /klan/ "Child"
Many children make up, or begin to make up, imaginary languages. I have been at it since I could write.
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Pabappa
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Re: False cognates

Post by Pabappa » 21 Feb 2018 18:23

And I'm told that: :eng: spank is not cognate to :por: espancar with a similar meaning. But the derivations are unknown. The Pt word does not seem to appear in any other Romance language.


÷÷÷÷÷÷÷÷÷÷
:isr: Obadiah and :ara: Abdullah, variants of a given name, mean "slave of God", both traceable to the Semitic root ʕ-b-d "slave; to work, serve". Not cognate to :esp: obedecer "obey" or its kin.
Edit: there's also :isr: Obed, mentioned first in Ruth 4:17,
for an even closer match.
Last edited by Pabappa on 25 Feb 2018 04:47, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: False cognates

Post by Khemehekis » 25 Feb 2018 00:51

Assyrian Neo-Aramaic ṭĕrā / :jpn: tori (bird)
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Squirrels chase koi . . . chase squirrels

My Kankonian-English dictionary: 57,500 words and counting

31,416: The number of the conlanging beast!

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Re: False cognates

Post by Pabappa » 25 Feb 2018 07:09

I thought I did this one already but I couldn't find it on a search....

:fra: échine "spine" != :lat: echinus "hedgehog, sea urchin; spiny animal". There's also :eng: "hedgehog" vs :pie: *héģhis, but the pronunciation of the PIE could be wrong.
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Imralu
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Re: False cognates

Post by Imralu » 27 Feb 2018 02:27

:eng: ponderous, pound
:tan: Swahili: -ponda "to crush", "to pound"
Glossing Abbreviations: COMP = comparative, C = complementiser, ACS / ICS = accessible / inaccessible, GDV = gerundive, SPEC / NSPC = specific / non-specific, AG = agent, E = entity (person, animal, thing)
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Imralu
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Re: False cognates

Post by Imralu » 05 Mar 2018 06:46

:deu: fegen "to sweep"; :isl: fága "to clean"
:tan: Swahili: -fagia "to sweep"
Glossing Abbreviations: COMP = comparative, C = complementiser, ACS / ICS = accessible / inaccessible, GDV = gerundive, SPEC / NSPC = specific / non-specific, AG = agent, E = entity (person, animal, thing)
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Imralu
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Re: False cognates

Post by Imralu » 06 Mar 2018 19:17

Got a structural one. Both :esp: Spanish and :tan: Swahili use the subjunctive for negative imperatives. The present subjunctive of Spanish a-thematic verbs (-ar verbs), the largest group of verbs, generally involves replacing a with e. In Swahili, all native Bantu verbs end with -a and this is changed to -e for the subjunctive.

Canta! Sing! (singular imperative)
Imba! Sing! (singular imperative)

No cantes! Don't sing! (singular imperative using subjunctive form)
Usiimbe Don't sing! (singular imperative using subjunctive form)

Cantas. = You sing.
Unaimba. = You sing.

Quiero que cantes. I want you to sing.
Nataka uimbe.
Glossing Abbreviations: COMP = comparative, C = complementiser, ACS / ICS = accessible / inaccessible, GDV = gerundive, SPEC / NSPC = specific / non-specific, AG = agent, E = entity (person, animal, thing)
________
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Re: False cognates

Post by All4Ɇn » 08 Mar 2018 07:10

:tha: แฟน faen "boyfriend/girlfriend"
:eng: friend

The Thai term is actually borrowed from English fan and also has that meaning as well

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Re: False cognates

Post by Shemtov » 16 Mar 2018 18:07

:geo: /sami/ vs. :hkg: /sam˥/ and :kor: 삼 /sam/ "3"
Note that believers in Dene-Caucasian could say that they are cognates, that :geo: borrowed from a cognate of :ru-kb: /ʃə/
Many children make up, or begin to make up, imaginary languages. I have been at it since I could write.
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GrandPiano
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Re: False cognates

Post by GrandPiano » 16 Mar 2018 21:14

Shemtov wrote:
16 Mar 2018 18:07
:geo: /sami/ vs. :hkg: /sam˥/ and :kor: 삼 /sam/ "3"
The last two actually are cognates. 삼 is a loanword from Chinese. The native Korean word for three is apparently 셋 set.
:eng: - Native
:chn: - B2
:esp: - A2
:jpn: - A2

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Shemtov
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Re: False cognates

Post by Shemtov » 16 Mar 2018 23:04

GrandPiano wrote:
16 Mar 2018 21:14
Shemtov wrote:
16 Mar 2018 18:07
:geo: /sami/ vs. :hkg: /sam˥/ and :kor: 삼 /sam/ "3"
The last two actually are cognates. 삼 is a loanword from Chinese. The native Korean word for three is apparently 셋 set.
I was comparing the :geo: to the two Cognates. Thus "vs." and " :hkg: /sam˥/ and :kor: 삼 /sam/
Many children make up, or begin to make up, imaginary languages. I have been at it since I could write.
-JRR Tolkien

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GrandPiano
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Re: False cognates

Post by GrandPiano » 16 Mar 2018 23:27

Shemtov wrote:
16 Mar 2018 23:04
GrandPiano wrote:
16 Mar 2018 21:14
Shemtov wrote:
16 Mar 2018 18:07
:geo: /sami/ vs. :hkg: /sam˥/ and :kor: 삼 /sam/ "3"
The last two actually are cognates. 삼 is a loanword from Chinese. The native Korean word for three is apparently 셋 set.
I was comparing the :geo: to the two Cognates. Thus "vs." and " :hkg: /sam˥/ and :kor: 삼 /sam/
Ah, my bad, then.
:eng: - Native
:chn: - B2
:esp: - A2
:jpn: - A2

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Tuyono
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Re: False cognates

Post by Tuyono » 25 Mar 2018 18:09

:isr: mehuma מהומה - mess, a chaotic situation
:eng: mayhem
:isr: (native) :eng: (fluent) :deu: (beginner)

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Re: False cognates

Post by Iyionaku » 29 Mar 2018 12:19

I think everyone on this board might not be surprised, but for an average person it might be quite surprising that the names of Iraq and Iran are not cognates.

Iraq derives from Arabic العراق al-ʿIrāq, which derives from a Semitic word uruk (related to water, due to the rivers Euphrat and Tigris).
Iran derives from Persian ايران Īrān - from Avestian Aryanam vaeja (Land of the Aryans)
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Shemtov
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Re: False cognates

Post by Shemtov » 29 Mar 2018 17:20

:kor: <프르> [pʰɯɾɯ] "[Stem] To be blue" :eng: Blue
Many children make up, or begin to make up, imaginary languages. I have been at it since I could write.
-JRR Tolkien

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