False friends and other unfortunate coincidences

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clawgrip
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Re: False friends and other unfortunate coincidences

Post by clawgrip » 18 Oct 2018 23:51

yangfiretiger121 wrote:
15 Sep 2018 15:33
Sglod wrote:
10 Jan 2016 17:23
:jpn: 顔 kao face :eng: cow
Like most, if not all, Japanee/English pairings in this topic, this is based on an (incorrect) English diphthongization of Japanese vowels. 顔 Kao should be pronounced [kä.o̞].
In a similar vein, there is an online business supplies/other things store we use frequently at work called カウネット (Kaunet) which is a combination of 買う kau "buy" and net. I like to back-translate this as 牛取り網 ushidoriami (net for catching cows).

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All4Ɇn
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Re: False friends and other unfortunate coincidences

Post by All4Ɇn » 02 Nov 2018 17:52

:nld: betweter "know-it-all"
:eng: bedwetter

Both insults that look very similar but have very different meanings
Last edited by All4Ɇn on 02 Nov 2018 20:34, edited 1 time in total.

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Pabappa
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Re: False friends and other unfortunate coincidences

Post by Pabappa » 02 Nov 2018 20:31

All4Ɇn wrote:
02 Nov 2018 17:52
:nld: betweter "know-it-all"
:eng: bedwetter

But insults that look very similar but have very different meanings
😀 I love that one! There's also a business called BedWeters that uses the second half of the pair (the word for "bed" is the same in both languages).

Image
😯 Oh my ... that's gonna be quite a cleanup job ...
Image

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alynnidalar
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Re: False friends and other unfortunate coincidences

Post by alynnidalar » 05 Nov 2018 20:00

On the floor, even?? Quite the cleanup job indeed...

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GrandPiano
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Re: False friends and other unfortunate coincidences

Post by GrandPiano » 10 Nov 2018 04:25

:jpn: Ōgami Miyako anta “we, us”
:jpn: Japanese あんた anta “you”
:eng: - Native
:chn: - B2
:esp: - A2
:jpn: - A2

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Lao Kou
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Re: False friends and other unfortunate coincidences

Post by Lao Kou » 10 Nov 2018 05:26

:fra: empire empire
:fra: empire gets worse, worsens

:chn: :twn: 焙 bèi bake
:eng: bake
道可道,非常道
名可名,非常名

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GrandPiano
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Re: False friends and other unfortunate coincidences

Post by GrandPiano » 10 Nov 2018 05:38

Lao Kou wrote:
10 Nov 2018 05:26
:chn: :twn: 焙 bèi bake
:eng: bake
Aren’t those false cognates?
:eng: - Native
:chn: - B2
:esp: - A2
:jpn: - A2

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Lao Kou
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Re: False friends and other unfortunate coincidences

Post by Lao Kou » 10 Nov 2018 06:39

Moved them.
道可道,非常道
名可名,非常名

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Shemtov
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Re: False friends and other unfortunate coincidences

Post by Shemtov » 18 Nov 2018 20:31

Bukharian (a Jewish dialect of :irn: spoken originally in :uzb: ) /kajk/ "flea" :eng: "Kike"
Many children make up, or begin to make up, imaginary languages. I have been at it since I could write.
-JRR Tolkien

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Re: False friends and other unfortunate coincidences

Post by Shemtov » 18 Nov 2018 20:49

:nld: :swe: :nor: :dan: <jurist> :rus: <юрист> /jurist/ "Lawyer" :eng: "Jurist"
Many children make up, or begin to make up, imaginary languages. I have been at it since I could write.
-JRR Tolkien

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k1234567890y
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Re: False friends and other unfortunate coincidences

Post by k1234567890y » 14 Dec 2018 03:36

Just found this:

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/보지#Korean

in Korean, 보지 can mean "cxxt" and also " preservation, holding, retention" and "notice, announcement"

Koreans might want to revive Hanjas because of things like this I guess
...

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GrandPiano
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Re: False friends and other unfortunate coincidences

Post by GrandPiano » 14 Dec 2018 03:39

k1234567890y wrote:
14 Dec 2018 03:36
Just found this:

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/보지#Korean

in Korean, 보지 can mean "cxxt" and also " preservation, holding, retention" and "notice, announcement"

Koreans might want to revive Hanjas because of things like this I guess
It says that the last two senses are rare, though. I wouldn’t be surprised if they’re rare because of what they’re homophones with.
:eng: - Native
:chn: - B2
:esp: - A2
:jpn: - A2

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k1234567890y
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Re: False friends and other unfortunate coincidences

Post by k1234567890y » 14 Dec 2018 04:43

GrandPiano wrote:
14 Dec 2018 03:39
k1234567890y wrote:
14 Dec 2018 03:36
Just found this:

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/보지#Korean

in Korean, 보지 can mean "cxxt" and also " preservation, holding, retention" and "notice, announcement"

Koreans might want to revive Hanjas because of things like this I guess
It says that the last two senses are rare, though. I wouldn’t be surprised if they’re rare because of what they’re homophones with.
ok thanks for telling
...

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Shemtov
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Re: False friends and other unfortunate coincidences

Post by Shemtov » 14 Dec 2018 08:06

Bukharian /jon/ "here" Dated :eng: <Yon> "Over there"
Many children make up, or begin to make up, imaginary languages. I have been at it since I could write.
-JRR Tolkien

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GrandPiano
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Re: False friends and other unfortunate coincidences

Post by GrandPiano » 18 Dec 2018 05:27

:nav: haa “what, how”
:eng: how
:eng: - Native
:chn: - B2
:esp: - A2
:jpn: - A2

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k1234567890y
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Re: False friends and other unfortunate coincidences

Post by k1234567890y » 31 Dec 2018 04:50

Malay-Indonesian air "water" v.s. English air

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/air#Indonesian
...

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Re: False friends and other unfortunate coincidences

Post by shimobaatar » 31 Dec 2018 19:03

Oh, wow, I actually just stumbled across that myself the other day! I got a little déjà vu seeing this. [:D]

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Shemtov
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Re: False friends and other unfortunate coincidences

Post by Shemtov » 08 Jan 2019 22:51

Lao Kou wrote:
10 May 2018 11:53
Shemtov wrote:
10 May 2018 09:12
eldin raigmore wrote:
10 May 2018 05:17
No, it’s not a coincidence, and it’s not a false friend.

It’s unfortunate, I guess, maybe.
Maybe my semantic spread of "coincidence" is larger then yours, but I consider it a coincidence that the same word has two semantic meanings: a technical term for analyzing literature, and an offensive term for cognitive disability; to me the fact that the latter use is offensive is because it began to move away from the meaning of "held back".
I'm with eldin on this one. These terms didn't arise separately ex nihilo -- that would be a coincidence. That a word should furcate in meaning and pick up extra connotative muck over time is not a coincidence.

By that standard, that "silly" meant "blessed" at other times (or perhaps now in dialect) and "foolish" now is a coincidence.

Edit: A more contemporary example might be the use of "gay", going from "joyful, happy" to "homosexual" (still valid) to teen slang for "weird", "strange", "something my in-group would look down on or ostracize" (was valid before I left the US (still?)). This is not coincidental. IMNSHO

"Retardation" of any type involves a slowness or delay. Back in the day, "(mental) retardation" was the go-to term for that cognitive disability (and a quick Bing search seems to indicate that the term is still available in an uncharged, clinical way) -- though that must be on the way out). That it's become an offensive term is, I merely surmise, because the integrated schoolyard taunt "retard" started as a moniker for mentally challenged students and spread as an insult you didn't want applied to yourself at all costs, and that poisoned the well for the term in general. But the term "slow", referring to mental ability, may not be as emotionally charged as "retarded", but also makes me feels squeamish in its offensiveness or condescension (Of George and Lenny in Of Mice and Men, Lenny is "slow"). The metaphor is the same, and that's no coincidence.

Though it may well be unfortunate.

Shemtov wrote: :eng: "Literary device involving the slowing of the pace of a work of fiction for dramatic effect".
I found this in Greek and Roman Classical Literature class, and after the professor introduced the literary device as a non-offensive term said "We are skipping chapters VIII-XI of the Aeneid because they are retarded."
I didn't do an extensive search on this, because, well, I want to cook dinner, but all I could find was The Glossary of Literary Terms under

54. Retardation (delayed utterance) - an intentional delay in the completion of the phrases or clauses expressing modality of thought, time and the like to detain the conclusion of the utterance

which makes your professor's term, if not incorrect (again, dunno), seem a little erudite and esoteric, unless s/he points you to older texts where the term is used in this way, so you don't misinterpret it.

Too, when I hear the term "false friend", I think of words used cross-linguistically that you don't think you have to worry about: like French "sensible", which is not English "sensible" but "sensitive". This is not the same as Chaucer dribbling own to us and us not getting it.
Would you then count :eng: "Retard" the offensive noun form, as a false friend of :fra: <Retard> "Late"?
Many children make up, or begin to make up, imaginary languages. I have been at it since I could write.
-JRR Tolkien

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Re: False friends and other unfortunate coincidences

Post by Shemtov » 15 Jan 2019 22:40

:fra: Douche "Shower" :eng: Douche. Can't believe that wasn't mentioned before
Many children make up, or begin to make up, imaginary languages. I have been at it since I could write.
-JRR Tolkien

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Re: False friends and other unfortunate coincidences

Post by WeepingElf » 16 Jan 2019 13:20

Shemtov wrote:
15 Jan 2019 22:40
:fra: Douche "Shower" :eng: Douche. Can't believe that wasn't mentioned before
And :deu: Dusche goes with the French.
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