False cognates

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Dormouse559
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Re: False cognates

Post by Dormouse559 » 06 Dec 2018 08:26

:eng: cover
:eng: recover

"Cover" comes from Latin cooperio, but "recover" comes from Latin recupero, making it cognate with "recuperate", which makes a whole lot of sense. Of course, "re-cover", i.e. "cover again", does have the same root as "cover".

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Re: False cognates

Post by GrandPiano » 23 Dec 2018 00:34

:ara: تقاتل taqātala "to fight one another" (particularly forms where the first syllable is reduplicated like tataqātalūna "you are fighting each other")
:jpn: 戦う tatakau "to fight"
:eng: - Native
:chn: - B2
:esp: - A2
:jpn: - A2

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Re: False cognates

Post by k1234567890y » 13 Jan 2019 06:55

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yapese_language

Yapese roow "to become red" and Standard German rot "red"
...

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Shemtov
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Re: False cognates

Post by Shemtov » 13 Jan 2019 22:36

;isr: /ki tov/ "For it is good, Bukharian (Judeo-Tajik originally spoken in Uzbekistan, now mainly in Queens, NY) /kitov/ "Book"
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Re: False cognates

Post by Salmoneus » 16 Jan 2019 02:52

It's not as mindblowing as Dormouse's recent revelations, but I've always assumed that pell-mell was in some way cognate either directly to the (busy) street, Pall Mall, or to the (confused) game the street is named after, pall mall, both of which are pronounced with /{/, which isn't that far from /E/.

...but it's not. Pell-mell comes from Frenche pesle-mesle, an intensive rhyme from 'mesler', to mix or meddle. Pall mall and Pall Mall both come from Italian pallamaglio, 'ball-hammer'.

Indeed, apparently Americans even pronounce 'pall mall' as 'pell-mell'? I assume that must be hypercorrection based on this folk etymology, since it's otherwise an irregular change and not motivated by the spelling. Unless it's something to do with later re-borrowing of the word from English and not recognising the RP /{/ vowel?

Although, weirdly, it seems as though the /{/ in Pall Mall was shifted the other way in the US in "mall" (shopping centre), which has /O:/. Which we've since semi-borrowed. Which is particularly weird since this makes it homophonous with 'maul', which IS cognate to 'mall' (both from Latin 'malleus', 'hammer'), and is how 'Pall Mall' looks like it should be pronounced. So maybe it became US 'mall' as a spelling pronounciation, that was then reborrowed? But it's weird the Americans would borrow the same word twice and get the vowels wrong in opposite directions the two times...

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Re: False cognates

Post by GrandPiano » 05 Feb 2019 03:41

:jpn: かぶる kaburu "to put on one's head; to be covered with"
:eng: cover
:eng: - Native
:chn: - B2
:esp: - A2
:jpn: - A2

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Re: False cognates

Post by Pabappa » 09 Feb 2019 21:13

:rus: серебро "silver"
:esp: cérebro "brain"
Sorry guys, this one has the worst sting.

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Re: False cognates

Post by WeepingElf » 09 Feb 2019 23:26

Pabappa wrote:
09 Feb 2019 21:13
:rus: серебро "silver"
:esp: cérebro "brain"
These are false friends, not false cognates. False cognates are words which look as if they were related but are not. These two aren't related, but nobody would expect them to because their meanings are utterly different.
... brought to you by the Weeping Elf

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Re: False cognates

Post by Pabappa » 10 Feb 2019 00:16

Sorry i get the three threads confused, I did my best to find the right one but I guess I should 've tried harder
Sorry guys, this one has the worst sting.

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Re: False cognates

Post by Shemtov » 01 Apr 2019 01:01

:irn: /bæd/ :eng: <Bad>
Many children make up, or begin to make up, imaginary languages. I have been at it since I could write.
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Re: False cognates

Post by GrandPiano » 02 Apr 2019 22:26

Guarani ko "this (determiner)"
:jpn: この kono "this (determiner)"

Guarani amo "that over there (determiner)"
:jpn: あの ano "that over there (determiner)"

(Is there a flag code for Paraguay?)
:eng: - Native
:chn: - B2
:esp: - A2
:jpn: - A2

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Re: False cognates

Post by Salmoneus » 03 Apr 2019 14:17

English: cash (coins of small denomination)
English: cash (ready money)

Not related.

Similarly...

English: cashier (to dismiss a soldier, annul, or put away)
English: cashier (one who takes in money in a bank and puts it away)

And by extension:
English: cashier (to break up a group of soldiers and send them away, effectively exchanging the group for the chance to reallocate their wages)
English: cash (in) (to exchange a group of tokens for money)


And also:
English: cache (hidden location where hunters can store food and supplies)
English: cachet (hidden location from whence hunters can observe birds unseen)

And:

English: cache (a container containing things of value)
English: cachet (a container containing medication)

And:

English: cache (a store of things that have been acquired)
English: catch (to actively acquire)

And:

English: cache (a store of or container of valuable things, or the things so contained or stored)
English: cash (a container containing money or other valuables; a moneybox)

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Re: False cognates

Post by Nmmali » 09 Apr 2019 07:29

This is a little off topic, but I was going to suggest :ita: cane and the on'yomi of :jpn: 犬, (けん, ​ken), but the wiktionary entry for the ultimate Proto-Sino-Tibetan ancestor of ken doesn't seem to rule that connection out. Of course, I am no scholar of Chinese linguistics.

That article, if anyone cares:
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Reconstr ... 7%C9%99j-n
Yeí Nmmàli.
:eng: [tick] | :ita: [tick] | :fra: [maybe] | :lat: [maybe] | :grc: [maybe] | :jpn: :?:

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Re: False cognates

Post by Shemtov » 10 Apr 2019 06:55

On that note ,Cantonese /hyːn³⁵/ Danish <hund> /hun/ both "Dog"
Many children make up, or begin to make up, imaginary languages. I have been at it since I could write.
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Re: False cognates

Post by GrandPiano » 11 Apr 2019 04:55

Shemtov wrote:
10 Apr 2019 06:55
On that note ,Cantonese /hyːn³⁵/ Danish <hund> /hun/ both "Dog"
As noted in the previous post, these may be true cognates (Cantonese hyun2 is cognate with Japanese ken, and Danish hund is cognate with Italian cane).
:eng: - Native
:chn: - B2
:esp: - A2
:jpn: - A2

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Re: False cognates

Post by Shemtov » 11 Apr 2019 06:50

GrandPiano wrote:
11 Apr 2019 04:55
Shemtov wrote:
10 Apr 2019 06:55
On that note ,Cantonese /hyːn³⁵/ Danish <hund> /hun/ both "Dog"
As noted in the previous post, these may be true cognates (Cantonese hyun2 is cognate with Japanese ken, and Danish hund is cognate with Italian cane).
The Wiktionary entry doesn't explain how the IE and the ST words. It says that the ST word is probably a Wanderwort with Hmong-Mien and Austronesian, but does not mention how it got to (or from) IE. It seems to be suggesting the possibility, however slight, that PIE word has connections, but may be acknowledging it as a false cognate. Wiktionary gives the alternate theory that PIE *k'wo and *pek'u (ancestor of :deu: <Viech>) go back to a single Pre-PIE root.
Many children make up, or begin to make up, imaginary languages. I have been at it since I could write.
-JRR Tolkien

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Re: False cognates

Post by k1234567890y » 13 Apr 2019 00:43

just found this:

Vietnamese hố "hole,pit" v.s. English hole

https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/hố#Vietnamese

also Vietnamese lỗ "hole" v.s. Standard German Loch "hole, pit"

https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/lỗ
...

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Re: False cognates

Post by GrandPiano » 13 Apr 2019 02:19

Shemtov wrote:
11 Apr 2019 06:50
GrandPiano wrote:
11 Apr 2019 04:55
Shemtov wrote:
10 Apr 2019 06:55
On that note ,Cantonese /hyːn³⁵/ Danish <hund> /hun/ both "Dog"
As noted in the previous post, these may be true cognates (Cantonese hyun2 is cognate with Japanese ken, and Danish hund is cognate with Italian cane).
The Wiktionary entry doesn't explain how the IE and the ST words. It says that the ST word is probably a Wanderwort with Hmong-Mien and Austronesian, but does not mention how it got to (or from) IE. It seems to be suggesting the possibility, however slight, that PIE word has connections, but may be acknowledging it as a false cognate. Wiktionary gives the alternate theory that PIE *k'wo and *pek'u (ancestor of :deu: <Viech>) go back to a single Pre-PIE root.
I was just saying that they may be related. It seems like we don’t know for sure whether they are.
:eng: - Native
:chn: - B2
:esp: - A2
:jpn: - A2

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Shemtov
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Re: False cognates

Post by Shemtov » 21 May 2019 03:22

This are racist slurs, for a group that isn't mine but when I learned they weren't related, it blew my mind, so please don't shoot me:
:eng:Ching-Chong; Chink; Both racist slurs for East Asians. I always thought the latter was a corruption of the first syllable of the former- my English doesn't allow coda /ŋ/, but rather it's pronounced as [ŋğ̚] (or it could be a post-stopped /ŋ/, not sure) so I though <Chink> came from speakers of similar dialects devoicing the /g/ of <Ching>, but it comes from racists saying "Their eyes look like chinks in a wall"
Many children make up, or begin to make up, imaginary languages. I have been at it since I could write.
-JRR Tolkien

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Re: False cognates

Post by Zekoslav » 21 May 2019 15:28

I've always thought it was some kind of derogatory deformation of "Chinese". These are really common in the Balkans (for neighboring peoples, that is...)
Languages:
:hrv: [:D], :bih: :srb: [;)], :eng: [:D], :fra: [:|], :lat: [:(], :deu: [:'(]

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