False friends and other unfortunate coincidences

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Creyeditor
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Re: False friends and other unfortunate coincidences

Post by Creyeditor » 29 Aug 2016 10:56

Xonen wrote:
Iyionaku wrote:Just stumbled about a new one while reading a new york times article:

:eng: chilling and colloquial :deu: chillig (relaxed)
Any reason to suspect that the German word isn't simply a loan from English?
It is derived from chillen, which is a loan, meaning to relax. But the meaning of the German and the English one above are different, IIANM.
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Re: False friends and other unfortunate coincidences

Post by Dormouse559 » 29 Aug 2016 17:46

Creyeditor wrote:But the meaning of the German and the English one above are different, IIANM.
It depends, but you're right for the most part. As a pure adjective, "chilling" means "disturbing". I'm guessing that's the usage you saw in the New York Times. It could also mean "making cold". As the present participle of "to chill", it could have the literal meaning "to make cold" or the colloquial meaning "to relax". That colloquial interpretation brings it pretty close to the German.

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Re: False friends and other unfortunate coincidences

Post by k1234567890y » 29 Aug 2016 22:08

although this is restricted to writing:

Japanese "trunk" and Min-Nan "f***"
I prefer to not be referred to with masculine pronouns and nouns such as “he/him/his”.

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Re: False friends and other unfortunate coincidences

Post by GrandPiano » 30 Aug 2016 04:12

k1234567890y wrote:although this is restricted to writing:

Japanese "trunk" and Min-Nan "f***"
This applies to Mandarin as well. However, the Mandarin word 干/幹 gàn (simplified , traditional ) has a number of meanings; one is "trunk", as in Japanese, and another is "to f***". Another much more common meaning is "to do".

Interestingly, the sense "to f***" is apparently borrowed from Min Nan.
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Re: False friends and other unfortunate coincidences

Post by Shemtov » 30 Aug 2016 07:02

GrandPiano wrote:
k1234567890y wrote:although this is restricted to writing:

Japanese "trunk" and Min-Nan "f***"
This applies to Mandarin as well. However, the Mandarin word 干/幹 gàn (simplified , traditional ) has a number of meanings; one is "trunk", as in Japanese, and another is "to f***". Another much more common meaning is "to do".

Interestingly, the sense "to f***" is apparently borrowed from Min Nan.
I have heard that English cheaply translated from Chinese often contains the f-word, as they are for the more common "to do" meaning for 干

They're pronounced differently, but <עץ> in Hebrew means "Tree" and is a rare form of the Yiddish 2P pronoun.
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Re: False friends and other unfortunate coincidences

Post by Lao Kou » 30 Aug 2016 08:05

Shemtov wrote:I have heard that English cheaply translated from Chinese often contains the f-word, as they are for the more common "to do" meaning for 干
You refer to things like these, I assume:

ImageImage

For the record, I have never been consulted. :roll:

Any more than I am responsible for "Happy Bear Time" or "Let's free."


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Re: False friends and other unfortunate coincidences

Post by Iyionaku » 30 Aug 2016 09:28

:deu: Standard german Teppich carpet vs. :deu: Swabian Teppich blanket

colloqial :eng: half eight (08:30) vs. :deu: halb acht (07:30)
Lao Kou wrote:
Shemtov wrote:I have heard that English cheaply translated from Chinese often contains the f-word, as they are for the more common "to do" meaning for 干
You refer to things like these, I assume:

Image

For the record, I have never been consulted. :roll:
This one is awesome. [:D] [:D] [:D]
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Re: False friends and other unfortunate coincidences

Post by Creyeditor » 30 Aug 2016 10:11

Iyionaku wrote::deu: Standard german Teppich carpet vs. :deu: Swabian Teppich blanket

colloqial :eng: half eight (08:30) vs. :deu: halb acht (07:30)
Also :de-sn: viertel acht (7:15) :de-hh: viertel vor acht (7:45), viertel nach acht (8:15)
I'm really not sure where the border is though :wat:
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Re: False friends and other unfortunate coincidences

Post by Lao Kou » 30 Aug 2016 10:12

Iyionaku wrote:colloqial :eng: half eight (08:30) vs. :deu: halb acht (07:30)
Yeah, British English and American English seem to have a usage difference here in a way I don't find as quaint or charming as cookies vs. biscuits. Oh well, vive la diff.
Lao Kou wrote:
Shemtov wrote:I have heard that English cheaply translated from Chinese often contains the f-word, as they are for the more common "to do" meaning for 干
This one is awesome. [:D] [:D] [:D]
I'd find it more entertaining if I were walking through some Chinglish-speaker's dream. Then again, walking through a Chinglish dream might be utterly terrifying.

Then again, zwei Minuten nach drei viertel fünf is adorable.
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Re: False friends and other unfortunate coincidences

Post by CMunk » 30 Aug 2016 10:40

Creyeditor wrote:
Iyionaku wrote:colloqial :eng: half eight (08:30) vs. :deu: halb acht (07:30)
Also :de-sn: viertel acht (7:15) :de-hh: viertel vor acht (7:45), viertel nach acht (8:15)
I'm really not sure where the border is though :wat:
:for: Eitt korter til trý (2:15) = :for: Eitt korter yvir tvey (2:15)

:for: Trý korter til trý (2:45) = :for: Eitt korter í trý (2:45)

I think the latter forms are more common in daily speech. But you should really pay attention to the preposition, when someone tells you the time, and you can't deduce it logically: til to/toward, í in, yvir over
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Re: False friends and other unfortunate coincidences

Post by clawgrip » 30 Aug 2016 12:48

Wait, so 幹, 乾, and 干 are all 干? Oh, silly Chinese!

Simplified Chinese should be in the linguistic pet peeves thread.

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Re: False friends and other unfortunate coincidences

Post by k1234567890y » 30 Aug 2016 13:08

clawgrip wrote:Wait, so 幹, 乾, and 干 are all 干? Oh, silly Chinese!

Simplified Chinese should be in the linguistic pet peeves thread.
lol however, some people have just been used to Simplified Chinese
I prefer to not be referred to with masculine pronouns and nouns such as “he/him/his”.

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Re: False friends and other unfortunate coincidences

Post by Lao Kou » 30 Aug 2016 18:46

clawgrip wrote:Wait, so 幹, 乾, and 干 are all 干? Oh, silly Chinese!
Unless you decide to go all rogue with the 乾 of 乾坤 or the emperor 乾隆 (qián) (which means you have to learn it anyways). [>:)]
Simplified Chinese should be in the linguistic pet peeves thread.
Man, I could peeve on this all day without breaking a sweat back in my twenties. These days, I just hope the simplified version gets to the tip of my pen first, so's I don't have to peeve all day. We all know which ones are the right ones anyway. [>:)]
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Re: False friends and other unfortunate coincidences

Post by Zythros Jubi » 05 Sep 2016 06:38

What does 大操厅 mean, anyway?
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Re: False friends and other unfortunate coincidences

Post by Lao Kou » 05 Sep 2016 11:04

Zythros Jubi wrote:What does 大操厅 mean, anyway?
gym(nasium), fitness center, exercise hall, some such...
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Re: False friends and other unfortunate coincidences

Post by Znex » 05 Sep 2016 11:22

Then the second one's something like "vegetable processing" then?
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Re: False friends and other unfortunate coincidences

Post by Lao Kou » 05 Sep 2016 12:31

Znex wrote:Then the second one's something like "vegetable processing" then?
干菜 (gāncài) are dried vegetables which you can reconstitute for cooking ("tree ears" and other mushrooms spring to mind, as do 黄花 (huánghuā)(which I never looked up before, since "yellow flower" seemed descriptive enough, but it appears it's a "day lily"; anyway, great in soups and other dishes). If someone really wants to 干 (gàn) (which Znex euphemistically calls "processing") their 菜, that a predilection I'll leave to them (though I'd pass on dinner at their house that night).
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Re: False friends and other unfortunate coincidences

Post by clawgrip » 05 Sep 2016 13:13

Znex's confusion exemplifies why 幹 and 干 should not have been merged into a single character! As for dried vegetables, I think of cut and dried daikon radish (切り干し大根).

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Re: False friends and other unfortunate coincidences

Post by Lao Kou » 05 Sep 2016 13:23

clawgrip wrote:Znex's confusion exemplifies why 幹 and 干 should not have been merged into a single character!
Tots agreed, though I doubt a few far-flung foreigners kvetching about it will turn back the hands of time. [;)]
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Re: False friends and other unfortunate coincidences

Post by clawgrip » 05 Sep 2016 14:40

While we're on the topic, it occurred to me that the main difference between Japanese 乾かす kawakasu "to dry" and 干す hosu "to dry" is that most often (with exceptions, perhaps) 乾かす is used for things whose default state is dry, while 干す is used for things whose default state is not dry.

So for example: 洋服を乾かす Yōfuku o kawakasu "dry the clothes" implies that the clothes got wet for some unintended reason and now you are drying them out, while 洗濯を干す sentaku o hosu "dry the laundry" is normal to say because of course laundry is wet by default. If you use 乾かす for vegetables of fish or whatever, it normally would mean remove excess water from their surface, but if you use 干す it means desiccate them. I am wondering if Chinese is similar/the same.

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