False friends and other unfortunate coincidences

A forum for discussing linguistics or just languages in general.
Zé do Rock
cuneiform
cuneiform
Posts: 110
Joined: 12 Jul 2018 17:22

Re: False friends and other unfortunate coincidences

Post by Zé do Rock » 16 Jul 2018 15:02

REFORMEE

Lés arjentinis ee lés autres sudamericanis ki viennent au Brasil avec une voitur ont toujours baucoup a rir: cuando ven el reclamo 'borracharia'. Im portugueis isso ker dizer uma oficina specializada im pneus, im espaniol soa como uma loja ond você ench a cara. Klar, das macht man normalerweise in einer bar, aber nich jeder, der eine bar besucht, wird unbedingt besoffen.

Lés sudamericanis ont dee problemes cand ils sont invitee par example a un dinnee au Brasil: al final, si la comida estaba buena o ellos son educados, dicen "exquisito"! Nas duas línguas a palavra significa algo meio extraordinario, mas o problema é ki no espaniol a palavra tem um sentido altament positivo (como im outras línguas), no portugueis um sentido negativo...


ENGLISH HOUSE STILE

Arjentinians and other soudamericanis who come to Brazil with the car hav always a reeson to laf, wen they see the sine 'borracharia'. In portugase this meens a weel service, ware they change or sell tires, in espanish it meens a "drunkery", a shop ware you get drunk. Sure, usualy you do that in a bar, but not evrybody who enters a bar leevs it drunk.

Soudamericanis hav problems wen they ar invited for instance for a dinner in Brazil: at the end, if the meel was good or they ar polite, they say "exquisito"! In both languages the word meens something special, extrordinary, but the problem is that in espanish (as in other languages) it meens something positiv, wile in portuguese it meens 'strange' or 'funny' - in a neggativ sense.

User avatar
Shemtov
runic
runic
Posts: 2753
Joined: 29 Apr 2013 03:06

Re: False friends and other unfortunate coincidences

Post by Shemtov » 17 Jul 2018 04:16

:zho: 猪 zhū /t͡ʂú/"pig" ;eng: "Jew"
The following Orthographic pair actually got the Beatles called "Anti-Semitic" when they advertised the "Hey Jude" single in a minimalist manner, while a wave of Neo-Nazism was sweeping England:
:eng: Jude "Masculine Name" :deu: Jude "Jew"
Many children make up, or begin to make up, imaginary languages. I have been at it since I could write.
-JRR Tolkien

User avatar
sangi39
moderator
moderator
Posts: 3134
Joined: 12 Aug 2010 00:53
Location: North Yorkshire, UK

Re: False friends and other unfortunate coincidences

Post by sangi39 » 17 Jul 2018 04:18

Shemtov wrote:
17 Jul 2018 04:16
:zho: 猪 zhū /t͡ʂú/"pig" ;eng: "Jew"
The following Orthographic pair actually got the Beatles called "Anti-Semitic" when they advertised the "Hey Jude" single in a minimalist manner, while a wave of Neo-Nazism was sweeping England:
:eng: Jude "Masculine Name" :deu: Jude "Jew"
I learnt the German word "Jude" before I knew "Jude" was an English name. It did cause some confusion [:P]
You can tell the same lie a thousand times,
But it never gets any more true,
So close your eyes once more and once more believe
That they all still believe in you.
Just one time.

User avatar
Shemtov
runic
runic
Posts: 2753
Joined: 29 Apr 2013 03:06

Re: False friends and other unfortunate coincidences

Post by Shemtov » 17 Jul 2018 04:50

sangi39 wrote:
17 Jul 2018 04:18
Shemtov wrote:
17 Jul 2018 04:16
:zho: 猪 zhū /t͡ʂú/"pig" ;eng: "Jew"
The following Orthographic pair actually got the Beatles called "Anti-Semitic" when they advertised the "Hey Jude" single in a minimalist manner, while a wave of Neo-Nazism was sweeping England:
:eng: Jude "Masculine Name" :deu: Jude "Jew"
I learnt the German word "Jude" before I knew "Jude" was an English name. It did cause some confusion [:P]
They are actually cognates, coming from Hebrew /jəhudɔ/ "Judah". All Israelites came to be known as "Judeans" and in German it evolved into <Jude>. :eng: "Jude" is an accident: Texts translated from Greek (and thus NT texts) rendered /jəhudɔ/ <Judas>. As a book of the NT is named after a /jəhudɔ/, and the associations with Judas Iscariot, Christians felt uncomfortable with a "Book of Judas" in their canon, so the Anglicans changed it to "Jude"
Many children make up, or begin to make up, imaginary languages. I have been at it since I could write.
-JRR Tolkien

Zé do Rock
cuneiform
cuneiform
Posts: 110
Joined: 12 Jul 2018 17:22

Re: False friends and other unfortunate coincidences

Post by Zé do Rock » 19 Jul 2018 12:38

REF

Als ich in Brasil beim dren war, ging ich mit dem tonmann in ein schreibwarengeschäft, er wollte brifmarken kaufen. Il parlai espaniano parse ke sa fam était colomba, ee a demandee a la vendeus si el avai dee "sellos", dee timbre. Pero en portugaliano /sejos/ se escribe "seios" y ellos son los senos... A menina ficou un pocu perplexa...

HS

Wen i was in Brazil with a film teem, i went with the soundman into a stationery, he wanted to by stamps. He spoke espaniano becaus his wife was colomba, and he askd the feemale atendant if they had "sellos" thare, stamps. But in portugaliano /sejos/ is speld "seios" and meens the brests... The girl was a bit astonnishd...

User avatar
k1234567890y
runic
runic
Posts: 2963
Joined: 04 Jan 2014 04:47
Contact:

Re: False friends and other unfortunate coincidences

Post by k1234567890y » 19 Jul 2018 21:08

from my conlangs:

Lonmai Luna -los "-y" v.s. Standard German -los "-less"

Mayato MKII gang "police v.s. English gang
私のアツい人工言語活動!言カツ!始まります!!

User avatar
sangi39
moderator
moderator
Posts: 3134
Joined: 12 Aug 2010 00:53
Location: North Yorkshire, UK

Re: False friends and other unfortunate coincidences

Post by sangi39 » 20 Jul 2018 16:22

k1234567890y wrote:
19 Jul 2018 21:08
from my conlangs:

Lonmai Luna -los "-y" v.s. Standard German -los "-less"

Mayato MKII gang "police v.s. English gang
I think someone mentioned this in either this thread, or a related one (false cognates maybe?), but I don't think many people would count conlangs.
You can tell the same lie a thousand times,
But it never gets any more true,
So close your eyes once more and once more believe
That they all still believe in you.
Just one time.

User avatar
k1234567890y
runic
runic
Posts: 2963
Joined: 04 Jan 2014 04:47
Contact:

Re: False friends and other unfortunate coincidences

Post by k1234567890y » 21 Jul 2018 02:33

sangi39 wrote:
20 Jul 2018 16:22
k1234567890y wrote:
19 Jul 2018 21:08
from my conlangs:

Lonmai Luna -los "-y" v.s. Standard German -los "-less"

Mayato MKII gang "police v.s. English gang
I think someone mentioned this in either this thread, or a related one (false cognates maybe?), but I don't think many people would count conlangs.
ok

I posted conlangs as I have seen someone doing this before
私のアツい人工言語活動!言カツ!始まります!!

User avatar
Dormouse559
moderator
moderator
Posts: 2650
Joined: 10 Nov 2012 20:52
Location: California

Re: False friends and other unfortunate coincidences

Post by Dormouse559 » 21 Jul 2018 21:25

:eng: GPA - grade point average
:fra: GPA - surrogacy (gestation pour autrui)

User avatar
GrandPiano
runic
runic
Posts: 2668
Joined: 11 Jan 2015 23:22
Location: Ohio, USA

Re: False friends and other unfortunate coincidences

Post by GrandPiano » 22 Jul 2018 16:29

sangi39 wrote:
20 Jul 2018 16:22
k1234567890y wrote:
19 Jul 2018 21:08
from my conlangs:

Lonmai Luna -los "-y" v.s. Standard German -los "-less"

Mayato MKII gang "police v.s. English gang
I think someone mentioned this in either this thread, or a related one (false cognates maybe?), but I don't think many people would count conlangs.
I can see why conlangs wouldn't be wanted in the false cognates thread, since a similarity between a conlang and a natlang can't be guaranteed to be coincidental, but I don't see what's wrong with conlangs here.
:eng: - Native
:chn: - B2
:esp: - A2
:jpn: - A2

shimobaatar
darkness
darkness
Posts: 10911
Joined: 12 Jul 2013 22:09
Location: PA → IN

Re: False friends and other unfortunate coincidences

Post by shimobaatar » 22 Jul 2018 18:27

GrandPiano wrote:
22 Jul 2018 16:29
sangi39 wrote:
20 Jul 2018 16:22
k1234567890y wrote:
19 Jul 2018 21:08
from my conlangs:

Lonmai Luna -los "-y" v.s. Standard German -los "-less"

Mayato MKII gang "police v.s. English gang
I think someone mentioned this in either this thread, or a related one (false cognates maybe?), but I don't think many people would count conlangs.
I can see why conlangs wouldn't be wanted in the false cognates thread, since a similarity between a conlang and a natlang can't be guaranteed to be coincidental, but I don't see what's wrong with conlangs here.
We can't guarantee that any "false friends" between conlangs and natlangs are actually coincidental, either, right?

User avatar
Shemtov
runic
runic
Posts: 2753
Joined: 29 Apr 2013 03:06

Re: False friends and other unfortunate coincidences

Post by Shemtov » 22 Jul 2018 18:36

shimobaatar wrote:
22 Jul 2018 18:27
GrandPiano wrote:
22 Jul 2018 16:29
sangi39 wrote:
20 Jul 2018 16:22
k1234567890y wrote:
19 Jul 2018 21:08
from my conlangs:

Lonmai Luna -los "-y" v.s. Standard German -los "-less"

Mayato MKII gang "police v.s. English gang
I think someone mentioned this in either this thread, or a related one (false cognates maybe?), but I don't think many people would count conlangs.
I can see why conlangs wouldn't be wanted in the false cognates thread, since a similarity between a conlang and a natlang can't be guaranteed to be coincidental, but I don't see what's wrong with conlangs here.
We can't guarantee that any "false friends" between conlangs and natlangs are actually coincidental, either, right?
I don't have a problem with it, if it's a diachronic project, and from a daughter lang
Many children make up, or begin to make up, imaginary languages. I have been at it since I could write.
-JRR Tolkien

shimobaatar
darkness
darkness
Posts: 10911
Joined: 12 Jul 2013 22:09
Location: PA → IN

Re: False friends and other unfortunate coincidences

Post by shimobaatar » 22 Jul 2018 18:40

Shemtov wrote:
22 Jul 2018 18:36
shimobaatar wrote:
22 Jul 2018 18:27
GrandPiano wrote:
22 Jul 2018 16:29
sangi39 wrote:
20 Jul 2018 16:22
k1234567890y wrote:
19 Jul 2018 21:08
from my conlangs:

Lonmai Luna -los "-y" v.s. Standard German -los "-less"

Mayato MKII gang "police v.s. English gang
I think someone mentioned this in either this thread, or a related one (false cognates maybe?), but I don't think many people would count conlangs.
I can see why conlangs wouldn't be wanted in the false cognates thread, since a similarity between a conlang and a natlang can't be guaranteed to be coincidental, but I don't see what's wrong with conlangs here.
We can't guarantee that any "false friends" between conlangs and natlangs are actually coincidental, either, right?
I don't have a problem with it, if it's a diachronic project, and from a daughter lang
Yeah, I agree that that's probably fair.

User avatar
GrandPiano
runic
runic
Posts: 2668
Joined: 11 Jan 2015 23:22
Location: Ohio, USA

Re: False friends and other unfortunate coincidences

Post by GrandPiano » 22 Jul 2018 20:51

shimobaatar wrote:
22 Jul 2018 18:27
GrandPiano wrote:
22 Jul 2018 16:29
sangi39 wrote:
20 Jul 2018 16:22
k1234567890y wrote:
19 Jul 2018 21:08
from my conlangs:

Lonmai Luna -los "-y" v.s. Standard German -los "-less"

Mayato MKII gang "police v.s. English gang
I think someone mentioned this in either this thread, or a related one (false cognates maybe?), but I don't think many people would count conlangs.
I can see why conlangs wouldn't be wanted in the false cognates thread, since a similarity between a conlang and a natlang can't be guaranteed to be coincidental, but I don't see what's wrong with conlangs here.
We can't guarantee that any "false friends" between conlangs and natlangs are actually coincidental, either, right?
False friends don’t rely on coincidence though. Two words could be etymologically related but still be false friends if they look similar but mean different things.
:eng: - Native
:chn: - B2
:esp: - A2
:jpn: - A2

shimobaatar
darkness
darkness
Posts: 10911
Joined: 12 Jul 2013 22:09
Location: PA → IN

Re: False friends and other unfortunate coincidences

Post by shimobaatar » 22 Jul 2018 21:17

GrandPiano wrote:
22 Jul 2018 20:51
shimobaatar wrote:
22 Jul 2018 18:27
GrandPiano wrote:
22 Jul 2018 16:29
sangi39 wrote:
20 Jul 2018 16:22
k1234567890y wrote:
19 Jul 2018 21:08
from my conlangs:

Lonmai Luna -los "-y" v.s. Standard German -los "-less"

Mayato MKII gang "police v.s. English gang
I think someone mentioned this in either this thread, or a related one (false cognates maybe?), but I don't think many people would count conlangs.
I can see why conlangs wouldn't be wanted in the false cognates thread, since a similarity between a conlang and a natlang can't be guaranteed to be coincidental, but I don't see what's wrong with conlangs here.
We can't guarantee that any "false friends" between conlangs and natlangs are actually coincidental, either, right?
False friends don’t rely on coincidence though. Two words could be etymologically related but still be false friends if they look similar but mean different things.
I meant coincidental as in creating a word in a conlang and then later discovering that it happens to sound like a word in a natlang with a different meaning, as opposed to purposefully designing a word in a conlang to be a false friend to a natlang word.

User avatar
GrandPiano
runic
runic
Posts: 2668
Joined: 11 Jan 2015 23:22
Location: Ohio, USA

Re: False friends and other unfortunate coincidences

Post by GrandPiano » 22 Jul 2018 22:11

shimobaatar wrote:
22 Jul 2018 21:17
GrandPiano wrote:
22 Jul 2018 20:51
shimobaatar wrote:
22 Jul 2018 18:27
GrandPiano wrote:
22 Jul 2018 16:29
sangi39 wrote:
20 Jul 2018 16:22
k1234567890y wrote:
19 Jul 2018 21:08
from my conlangs:

Lonmai Luna -los "-y" v.s. Standard German -los "-less"

Mayato MKII gang "police v.s. English gang
I think someone mentioned this in either this thread, or a related one (false cognates maybe?), but I don't think many people would count conlangs.
I can see why conlangs wouldn't be wanted in the false cognates thread, since a similarity between a conlang and a natlang can't be guaranteed to be coincidental, but I don't see what's wrong with conlangs here.
We can't guarantee that any "false friends" between conlangs and natlangs are actually coincidental, either, right?
False friends don’t rely on coincidence though. Two words could be etymologically related but still be false friends if they look similar but mean different things.
I meant coincidental as in creating a word in a conlang and then later discovering that it happens to sound like a word in a natlang with a different meaning, as opposed to purposefully designing a word in a conlang to be a false friend to a natlang word.
I suppose that could happen as well, but I think the issue isn't necessarily people lying about a similarity being unintentional so much as that a conlanger's knowledge of natlangs can influence the words they create, even if they don't realize it.
:eng: - Native
:chn: - B2
:esp: - A2
:jpn: - A2

User avatar
Pabappa
cuneiform
cuneiform
Posts: 198
Joined: 18 Nov 2017 02:41
Contact:

Re: False friends and other unfortunate coincidences

Post by Pabappa » 22 Jul 2018 22:27

The old ZBB had a thread for "conlang words that happen to resemble real words" and I posted dozens of examples. But it was for words that resembles natlang words regardless of meaning, so that e.g. luna "house" would still be a match.
Image

Zé do Rock
cuneiform
cuneiform
Posts: 110
Joined: 12 Jul 2018 17:22

Re: False friends and other unfortunate coincidences

Post by Zé do Rock » 22 Jul 2018 22:36

EUR

In bahasa indonesia, 'bunda' signifi 'mam'. In Brazil lu signifi la 'bumbum'. In el unale vez ki mi vidou a "klinika bunda" in Indonesia, mi pensou af a clinica specializat in bumes...


RITE

In bahasa indonesia, 'bunda' meens 'muther'. In Brazil it meens the but. The first time i saw a "klinika bunda" in Indonesia, i thaut of a clinic specialized in asses.

User avatar
k1234567890y
runic
runic
Posts: 2963
Joined: 04 Jan 2014 04:47
Contact:

Re: False friends and other unfortunate coincidences

Post by k1234567890y » 23 Jul 2018 23:11

sorry for causing controversies again...><

English shark and Yucatan Mayan xoc "fish", and there's a theory that the English word is from the Mayan word.
私のアツい人工言語活動!言カツ!始まります!!

User avatar
GrandPiano
runic
runic
Posts: 2668
Joined: 11 Jan 2015 23:22
Location: Ohio, USA

Re: False friends and other unfortunate coincidences

Post by GrandPiano » 23 Jul 2018 23:51

k1234567890y wrote:
23 Jul 2018 23:11
English shark and Yucatan Mayan xoc "fish", and there's a theory that the English word is from the Mayan word.
Wiktionary says that the word "shark" was used to refer to a kind of fish before sharks were first brought to England, so the word can't be from Mayan.
:eng: - Native
:chn: - B2
:esp: - A2
:jpn: - A2

Post Reply