Surprising cognates

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Aszev
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Re: Surprising cognates

Post by Aszev » 28 Jan 2018 20:42

Apparently Irish and Scottish Gaelic fáilte/fàilte 'welcome' are cognate with English well and will (which are also cognate with each other)!
Sound change works in mysterious ways.

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Re: Surprising cognates

Post by Shemtov » 29 Jan 2018 00:05

:eng: odious :eng: odyssey, from PIE **h₃ed-. "to hate", as it seems Odysseus's name meant "Hated One".
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Re: Surprising cognates

Post by Shemtov » 08 Feb 2018 01:54

:eng: Score, Shear. Both from PIE *sker, the former being the o-grade (and of Norse origin).
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Re: Surprising cognates

Post by Creyeditor » 08 Feb 2018 02:01

Moni (TNG, Indonesia) /zu/ 'boy, son' and Mee (TNG, Indonesia) /joka/ 'child'. These really don't look similar, but Moni lost intervocalic *k and fortified j>z. And of course the vowels did something crazy as they always do.
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Re: Surprising cognates

Post by Shemtov » 08 Feb 2018 02:08

:eng: Christ, Grime. Both from PIE *gʰrēy "to smear".
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Re: Surprising cognates

Post by Shemtov » 09 Feb 2018 16:57

:eng: N*gger; (Film) Noir, both from Latin <niger>. If you believe the putative theory that the Latin is from some weird reflex of PIE *nókʷts, then we can include :eng: "Night" and all of its IE cognates.
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Re: Surprising cognates

Post by Shemtov » 11 Feb 2018 02:17

:eng: Blue, Black, Blank, Flame, Blink, :deu: Bleich "Pale" :fra: Blanc :esp: Blanco et. al. "White" :grc: φλόξ /pʰloks/ "Flame" :fra: Flou :esp: :ita: :por: Flavo "yellow" :rus: белый /bʲelɨj/ :pol: biały et. al. "Blue" :ind: (Sanskrit) भर्ग /bʱarga/ "Splendor".
All from PIE *bʰel "flash; brightness"
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Re: Surprising cognates

Post by Shemtov » 21 Feb 2018 05:46

:eng: "clan" "plant"
:lat: <planta> "shoot" >(Borrowed) O. :eng: M. :eng: <plante> > ;eng; <Plant>
:lat: <planta> "shoot" >(Borrowed) O. :wls: <Plant> "Children"> (borrowed) O. :irl: <Cland> > :sco: <Clann> > (Borrowed) :eng: <Clan>
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Re: Surprising cognates

Post by Znex » 25 Feb 2018 13:06

:eng: long since
:sco: lang syne
:swe: längesen
Well maybe it's not that surprising.
:eng: : [tick] | :grc: :wls: : [:|] | :chn: :isr: : [:S] | :nor: :deu: :rom: :ind: :con: : [:x]
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Re: Surprising cognates

Post by Void » 27 Feb 2018 12:49

:isr: שור šōr /ʃor/ - "bull"

:fin: teuras - "animal for slaughter"
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Re: Surprising cognates

Post by Shemtov » 27 Feb 2018 19:16

Void wrote:
27 Feb 2018 12:49
:isr: שור šōr /ʃor/ - "bull"

:fin: teuras - "animal for slaughter"
I would put "theoretical" as it is unknown how the PIE source for the :fin: borrowing, *táwros relates to Proto-Semitic *θawr
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Re: Surprising cognates

Post by GrandPiano » 01 Mar 2018 03:40

:eng: attach
:eng: attack

Frankish *stakka "stick" → :fra: Old French estache "stick" → atachier "to attach" → :eng: attach
                                    → (possible intermediate steps) → :ita: attaccare "to attach; to attack" (as in attaccare battaglia "to join battle") → :fra: attaquer "to attack" → :eng: attack

(I got these etymologies from Wiktionary, so they may be somewhat inaccurate. Wiktionary is somewhat unclear about the etymology of Italian attaccare, but it seems to ultimately derive from Old French attachier via a long series of intermediate steps.)
:eng: - Native
:chn: - B2
:esp: - A2
:jpn: - A2

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Re: Surprising cognates

Post by Creyeditor » 01 Mar 2018 18:42

Via PGmc this is probably also cognate with stick right?
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Re: Surprising cognates

Post by GrandPiano » 01 Mar 2018 22:51

Creyeditor wrote:
01 Mar 2018 18:42
Via PGmc this is probably also cognate with stick right?
Wiktionary doesn’t say, but that does seem very likely. If that is the case, then that makes three surprising cognates.
:eng: - Native
:chn: - B2
:esp: - A2
:jpn: - A2

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Re: Surprising cognates

Post by Pabappa » 02 Mar 2018 05:46

If so I want to add :fra: étiquette & English ticket.... maybe not too surprising to those of us accustomed to french loanword patterns, but I find it amusing, particularly how it boomeranged back to us.
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Re: Surprising cognates

Post by Nortaneous » 04 Mar 2018 13:46

More Chinese-English cognates:

轂 gu3 'nave of a wheel' < OC *kok ~ TB kokale 'wheel' < PIE *kʷekʷlo- > Eng. wheel
鞹 kuo4 'leather' < OC *khwak ~ TA kʷāc- 'leather' < PIE *kuH-ti- > Eng. hide
厄 e4 'yoke' < OC *qˤr(i/e)k ~ PIE *h3reǵ- > Eng. rake, reckon, rank, rich, drake, etc.
垣 yuan2 'wall, city' < OC *ɢʷan ~ TB want- 'envelop, surround' < PIE *wendh- > Eng. wind, wend (but Baxter-Sagart has *ɢʷar-)

And another Chinese-IE cognate:
里 li3 'village' < OC *C-rəʔ ~ PIE *wriH-eh2 > TB riye 'city', Thracian bria 'polis'

There are more here, but I left them out because finding the Chinese characters for them was too hard. There's also a 73-page thesis that I haven't read yet.

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Re: Surprising cognates

Post by GrandPiano » 04 Mar 2018 18:53

Nortaneous wrote:
04 Mar 2018 13:46
More Chinese-English cognates:

轂 gu3 'nave of a wheel' < OC *kok ~ TB kokale 'wheel' < PIE *kʷekʷlo- > Eng. wheel
鞹 kuo4 'leather' < OC *khwak ~ TA kʷāc- 'leather' < PIE *kuH-ti- > Eng. hide
厄 e4 'yoke' < OC *qˤr(i/e)k ~ PIE *h3reǵ- > Eng. rake, reckon, rank, rich, drake, etc.
垣 yuan2 'wall, city' < OC *ɢʷan ~ TB want- 'envelop, surround' < PIE *wendh- > Eng. wind, wend (but Baxter-Sagart has *ɢʷar-)

And another Chinese-IE cognate:
里 li3 'village' < OC *C-rəʔ ~ PIE *wriH-eh2 > TB riye 'city', Thracian bria 'polis'

There are more here, but I left them out because finding the Chinese characters for them was too hard. There's also a 73-page thesis that I haven't read yet.
Wow, I never would have expected that some of these were IE borrowings... 里 is especially surprising.

(By the way, it seems that the “yoke” sense of 厄 is typially written 軛 nowadays)
:eng: - Native
:chn: - B2
:esp: - A2
:jpn: - A2

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Re: Surprising cognates

Post by Shemtov » 07 Mar 2018 14:30

Thanks to Xonen in the False Friends thread for sending me down this rabbit-hole (pun intended):
:eng: <Cony>; Basque (where is the flag?) <untxi> "Rabbit"
Proto-Basque (or a lost Vasconic cognate) *(H)unči >(Borrowed) :lat: <cuniculus> > Vulg :lat: *cuniclus > :fr-no: Conil, Plr Conis> :eng: Cony
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Re: Surprising cognates

Post by Vlürch » 22 Mar 2018 09:22

Shemtov wrote:
07 Mar 2018 14:30
(where is the flag?)
It's "es-pv", :es-pv:

Sorry, I don't have any surprising cognates right now.

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Re: Surprising cognates

Post by Pabappa » 24 May 2018 03:54

:eng: skunk = :eng: Chicago, both from different languages' form of the same word for skunk, which is a nominal derivation from the verb for "urinate". It seems Chicago was named after the wild onions that grew there, not after skunks or urine ... perhaps they saw something similar in the aroma?
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