Bear isn't brother to cow.

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Iyionaku
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Re: Bear isn't brother to cow.

Post by Iyionaku » 25 Apr 2018 14:19

míkl wrote:
18 Apr 2011 21:57
Natlangs

:roc: 雄不是牛的兄弟。 xiong2 bu2shi4 niu2 de xiong1di4
:roc: (Hokkien) 雄毋是牛的兄弟。 hîng m̄-sī gû-ê hiann-tī
I'm still not an expert on Mandarin, but I'm pretty sure that 雄 for 'bear' is a typo. It should be 熊.
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Lao Kou
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Re: Bear isn't brother to cow.

Post by Lao Kou » 26 Apr 2018 09:46

Iyionaku wrote:
25 Apr 2018 14:19
míkl wrote:
18 Apr 2011 21:57

:chn: :twn: 雄不是牛的兄弟。 xiong2 bu2shi4 niu2 de xiong1di4
:chn: :twn: (Hokkien) 雄毋是牛的兄弟。 hîng m̄-sī gû-ê hiann-tī
I'm still not an expert on Mandarin, but I'm pretty sure that 雄 for 'bear' is a typo. It should be 熊.
This can occur so easily with programs that use pinyin or bopomofo for input. You type in "xiong" or "ㄒㄩㄥ", you get a menu of choices, you inadvertently push the wrong number, and if you hit send before catching the error, it's all over but the crying. This happens to me in instant messaging more often than I care to admit. Of course, you catch it right after it appears above the input area [>:O], so you bellow an oath to yourself, and indicate that even though you're foreign, you know that that one's not right and should be this. But the natives do this too, so it's not a major league loss of face. And in context, these mistakes are easily retrievable, particularly here, where 熊 and 雄 are both the same sound and same tone. Fortunately, in a forum such as this, you can go back and edit yourself if you care to.

As for the Hokkien, well, writing in dialect is always its own little kettle of woe, but that romanization system has simply gots to go (I doubt that will happen in my lifetime). 毋 for m̄ seems widespread enough in current usage, though I've also seen 呣, 呒, and even 唔 for this. Back in the day, texts seemed to me to be moving away from 的 for ê, opting for 兮 or の (mind, my experience with Hokkien was in Taiwan -- I haven't seen it at work in the wild here on the mainland). More importantly, neither my mainland nor Taiwan resources offer hîng for 熊 (bear). Both have him5 for the colloquial pronunciation (used in most contexts) and hiong5 for the literary pronunciation (as in 熊掌 - bear claw).
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Frislander
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Re: Bear isn't brother to cow.

Post by Frislander » 07 Jan 2019 00:22

I guess I'll make two translations here: one a "literal" translation, and one of the proverb (or what I assume the proverb to be about).

:con: Asta

literal:

pa‘ na‘xwəx ‘ininyatrewuxrəra nəmawə
pa‘ na‘xwəx ‘i-n-inye<atr>-wuxrə-ra nəmawə
NEG bear 3erg-IIs-become<APPL>-brother-REP ox
The bear does not become brother to the ox

sentimental

pa‘ ‘inə‘minnyixəra namə nexsəsə
pa‘ ‘i-n-ə‘min-nyixə-ra namə nexsəsə
NEG 3erg-IIs-join-able-REP fish heron
Herons can't marry fish

Note the idiosyncratic use of the reported suffix in proverbial statements.

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Lambuzhao
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Re: Bear isn't brother to cow.

Post by Lambuzhao » 07 Jan 2019 02:25

I just saw this acted out on Youtube:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sd-4i0tKqCw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nk-SrpaP8oI

[O.O]

Boy, are they ever not brothers.
But they do like to wrassle a lot!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cBDxK-PQnkY

Apparently, bears don't make good brothers to boars, either.

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Imralu
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Re: Bear isn't brother to cow.

Post by Imralu » 07 Jan 2019 02:37

It's all about cows here at the moment.

:con: Ngolu / Iliaqu

Kka tani ju eluajaha uji eluamumu.
NEG sibling NOM.3S.DEF.ICS bear GEN.3S.DEF.ICS bovine
The bear is not the cow's brother.

You could use the dative -s eji (with epenthetic) instead of the genitive uji and that would mean more like "does not behave as a brother to cow" I guess, and that might be the original meaning?
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Lambuzhao
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Re: Bear isn't brother to cow.

Post by Lambuzhao » 07 Jan 2019 03:02

:eng: Eald Ænglisc

a) Nis bera cūs brōþor
NEG=be<PRS.3SG> cow.GEN.SG brother.NOM.SG

Could not resist the making a more alliterative version, by making the cow into a bull:

b) Ne bera ne bula nearon ᵹebrōþru
NEG.CNJ bear.NOM.SG NEG.CNJ bull.NOM.SG NEG=be<PRS.3PL> <COLL>brother.NOM.PL



:got:
a) baira nist brōþar stiuris.
bear.NOM.SG NEG=be<PRS.3SG> brother.NOM.SG bull\calf.GEN.SG

b) Ni baira ni stiur ni sind brōþrjus
NEG.CNJ bear.NOM.SG NEG.CNJ bull\calf.NOM.SG NEG=be<PRS.3PL> brother.NOM.PL

The interesting thing here about the Gothic is that stiur is used for "bull", but also "calf" in Wulfilas, so there is an extra element of tension similar to the calf & lion allegory in Isaiah 11:6.
Last edited by Lambuzhao on 07 Jan 2019 03:40, edited 1 time in total.

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Lambuzhao
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Re: Bear isn't brother to cow.

Post by Lambuzhao » 07 Jan 2019 03:39

:con: Sadrås

The Sadrås prefers to use the masculine Kœbvj 'bull', 'steer'.

a.1) Nejs der Skær der Bfrode dene Kœbvje.
NEG=be<PRS.3SG> DEF.M.SBJ.SG <Skear>SBJ.SG DEF.M.SBJ.SG brother.SBJ.SG DEF.M.OBJ.SG bull.OBJ.SG
The Skear is not brother to the bull.

a.2) Nejs der Skær der Bfrode den Kœbvjes.
NEG=be<PRS.3SG> DEF.M.SBJ.SG <Skear>SBJ.SG DEF.M.SBJ.SG brother.SBJ.SG DEF.M.GEN.SG bull.GEN.SG
The Skear is not the bull's brother.

b) Nerin Bfredere nönder Skær nönder Kœbvj.
NEG=be<PRS.PL> brother<PL>SBJ NEG=CNJ <Skear>SBJ.SG NEG=CNJ bull.SBJ.SG
Neither Skear nor bull are brothers.

FOOTNOTE: There are no longer any bears on Tirga. The distantly related procyonid Raŋkun (Peloronasua nyctanuqui syn. Metachapalmalania ingens ) can approach a bear's proportions, as does the extremely rare megapredacious monotreme the Ölbjår ( Urstrix osobuho syn. Buhoso buhoso, Arktyto buhoso & Ossogulfo janshufdovei). But the main massive omnivorous ursine analog on Tirga would have to be the manxsome Skear (Dringsnappininger septentrionalis ), which is a descendant of the doughty skunk.

Frankly, there oughtn't be any kine-kind around, either. Nevertheless, kine still have life in mythological imagery of various Tirgan cultures, even if the animals themselves have all but disappeared.

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gestaltist
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Re: Bear isn't brother to cow.

Post by gestaltist » 10 Jan 2019 22:57

Īsmay

Bear isn't brother to cow.
older_brother POSS=cow=COP bear=NEG
ugbad ʕ=but=l dakka=2ot
ugbad å'but'al dakk'ōt
/ugbad ɒbutal dakːoːt/
[ugˈbad ɒbuˈtal dakˈkoːt]

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Fluffy8x
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Re: Bear isn't brother to cow.

Post by Fluffy8x » 11 Jan 2019 20:56

:con: Arka

delt de aruuj e bak.
bear COP.NEG younger_brother GEN cow

There are two words for 'brother' in this language: alser (older brother) and aruuj (younger brother).
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gestaltist
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Re: Bear isn't brother to cow.

Post by gestaltist » 11 Jan 2019 21:57

Fluffy8x wrote:
11 Jan 2019 20:56
:con: Arka

delt de aruuj e bak.
bear COP.NEG younger_brother GEN cow

There are two words for 'brother' in this language: alser (older brother) and aruuj (younger brother).
Same in Īsmay. I find it interesting that you chose "younger brother" and I chose "older brother" for the same translation.

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Re: Bear isn't brother to cow.

Post by Artaxes » 17 Mar 2019 13:31

:con: Lóko baaṣát

Tṣaám báṣat jiinár na du.
[bear brother cow-DAT no MASC-be]
[t͡ʃáːm báʃat ɟiːnár na du]

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Re: Bear isn't brother to cow.

Post by mxxierxx » 22 Apr 2019 03:11

Baude-Nylandnari

Bear isn't brother to cow. (mongolian proverb)
Burh no rä dellahihu bryongt kqa-di. (munqhuluahiuyyu saxx)
/buɾ no ræ dælahihu brjɔŋt kva-di. (mʊŋquluahiuju satʃ)/

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Re: Bear isn't brother to cow.

Post by Void » 09 Jul 2019 02:00

:con: Qōxyatha'xothri

Irsēqtiā angāqtsi qotyaxir.
[ɪɾ̥s̺eːqtɪˈjaː aˈŋaqtʃɪ qotˈjaxɪɾ̥]
Ø-ir-sēq-tiā angāq-tsi qotyaxi-r
NEG-brother-4SG.POSS cow-ABS bear-ABS

"Bear isn't brother to cow."
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Dormouse559
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Re: Bear isn't brother to cow.

Post by Dormouse559 » 09 Jul 2019 06:04

In the French translation, "Mongolian proverb" should be rendered as "proverbe mongol". "Mongolien" is more common as an offensive word for someone with Down syndrome.

:fra: French

L'ours n'est pas le frère de la vache. (proverbe mongol)
Bear isn't brother to cow.



Image Silvish

L' ous l' e ppas li frére d' la vâhe. (prôvèrbou mongólou)
[ˈlus lɛˈpɑs liˈfʁe.ʁə dləˈvɑː.hə | pʁɔˈvɛʁ.bu mɔ̃ˈgo.lu]
DEF bear 3S be NEG DEF-M.N brother of DEF-F.C.ACC cow-ACC | proverb mongolian-M.C

Bear isn't brother to cow.

N = "noble" or human-associated gender
C = "common" or non-human-associated gender

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Re: Bear isn't brother to cow.

Post by spanick » 12 Aug 2019 05:39

Turnnu
L’ursu n’e le frader de lä väch. (pruverbiu mongolu)
/luɾsʌ ne lə fɾadr̩ də læ vɛʃ | pruvəɾbjʌ moŋɡɔlʌ/

Weddisch
Det ber ne is de bróder tó det kuu naucht. (mongolisch soedseyn).
/dɛt bɛr nɛː ɪs də bɾøːdər tøː dɛt kuː naʊχt | moŋɡolɪʃ zøːdzɛɪn/
Last edited by spanick on 14 Oct 2019 21:37, edited 3 times in total.

Iyionaku
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Re: Bear isn't brother to cow.

Post by Iyionaku » 10 Oct 2019 14:30

I've got zero idea if I did this challenge before the board was pruned, but oh well - maybe one day I'll retrieve the information and be amused how much everything has changed, huh?
Also, I will proper good grammar for it.

:con: Yélian

A'groan cibit a'namo o'porcé.
[ɐˈgɾoː.ɐn ˈkibɨt ɐˈnaːmɔ̈ ɔ̈pɔ̈ɾˈkeː]
DEF.ANIM=bear NEG-COP.3SG.ANIM DEF.ANIM=brother DEF.GEN=cow
The bear is not the brother of the cow.

:con: Caelian

Paktyen pyorhuric kë byäis.
[pʰakˈtʲɛn pʲɔɾhuˈriç kʰə bʲæɪ̯ʃ]
bear.NOM cow.COM NEG COP.3SG>3SG
The bear is not with the cow.

:con: Utseech

De bär is diken de huh ihr bruth.
[də bæːɹ ɪs ˈdɪkən də huː iɹ bɹuːt]
DEF bear COP.3SG not DEF cow 3SG.GEN brother
The bear is not the brother of the cow.

:con: Bath'aso

Zar ktrztesht hidzhan khejte.
[zɑɾ ˈktr̩ztɛʂt ˈhidʐan ˈkʰɛjtɛ]
NEG bear-DUR brother cow-GEN
The bear isn't the cow's brother.

:con: Paatherye

ना म फ़ेय मै खोहे फ़्राठे.
Nā ma feya may khēhe frāthe.
NEG.3SG.FEM DEF.FEM.NOM bear.NOM DEF.FEM.GEN cow.GEN brother.NOM
The bear is not the cow's brother.

New words for this challenge:
Spoiler:
Caelian

*p-kty-n - bear, dangerous
New root

Bath'aso

ktrzt [ktr̩zt] - bear
Etymology: New root

khej [kʰɛj] - cow
Etymology: Loan word from Paatherye khēhi "cow"

Paatherye

feya [ˈfeja] - bear
Etymology: taboo avoidance term, most likely derived from pelir "gray", but through an unknown, related substrate language where p > f.
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Tuyono
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Re: Bear isn't brother to cow.

Post by Tuyono » 14 Oct 2019 21:09

My conlangs are set on a continent which has no cows, so...

Źilaa Ruńu:

maz mi ajil uveelun teirag.
/mɑz ˈmi ɑˈɟil u.βɛːˈlun tejˈrɑg /
NEG be.3SG brother.NOM goat-OBL bear.NOM
The bear is not the goat's brother.

There isn't really a distinction between "the goat's brother" and "a brother to the goat".

Ak’aleniw:

yawqayin kimekin tʼa mise wey.
/ˈjaw.qa.jin ˈki.me.kin tʼa ˈmi.se wej/
bear=DEF kimeg=DEF of sibling NEG
The bear is not a brother to the kimeg*.

* A kimeg is a domestic animal similar to a very big mountain goat. The word is borrowed from one of the Tumlay languages.
There are possesive prefixes but they can't be used with indefinite nouns.

Midavãtesh (new project, orthogtaphy will probably change):

tqham etjasẽ magha xanhmi ge.
/ˈtXam eˈt͡ɕa.sɛ̃ˈma.ɣa ˈxaŋ.mi ge/
bear(II).ABS goat(II)-DAT older.brother(I).ABS be-3SG.II NEG
The bear is not a brother to the goat.

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Re: Bear isn't brother to cow.

Post by Ælfwine » 22 Oct 2019 05:33

Crappy ad hoc attempt.

Crimean :got: :con::
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[pɛːrə nist kʰuː əf pruːdər]
Bear isn't brother of cow.
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