Bear isn't brother to cow.

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Xing
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Re: Bear isn't brother to cow.

Post by Xing » 18 Apr 2011 19:46

Natlangs

:eng: Bear isn't brother to cow. (mongolian proverb)
:deu: Der Bär ist nicht der Bruder der Kuh. (mongolisches Sprichwort)
:nor: Bjørnen er ikke bror til kua. (mongolsk ordspråk)
:dan: Bjørnen er ikke bror til koen. (mongolsk ordsprog)
:swe: Björnen är inte bror till kon. (mongoliskt ordspråk)

:sme: Bierdna ii leat gusa viellja.
:fin: Karhu ei ole naudan veli. (mongolialainen sananlasku)
:hun: A medve nem bátya tehénnek. (mogol közmondás)

:lat: Ursus non est frater bovis.
:fra: L'ours n'est pas le frère de la vache. (proverbe mongolien)
:fra: Old French: Li urs n'est pas li frere dela vache.
:ita: L'orso non è il fratello della mucca. (proverbio mongolo)
:esp: El oso no es el hermano a la vaca.

:rus: Медведь не брат корове. (монгольская пословица)
:pol: Niedźwiedź nie jest bratem krowie.

:roc: 雄不是牛的兄弟。 xiong2 bu2shi4 niu2 de xiong1di4
:roc: (Hokkien) 雄毋是牛的兄弟。 hîng m̄-sī gû-ê hiann-tī

:tur: Ayı kardeşi inek değildir. (Moğol Atasözü)
:jpn: 熊は牛のお兄さん・弟じゃない。(モンゴルの諺) Kuma wa ushi no oniisan/otouto janai. (mongoru no kotowaza)
:jpn: Satsugū: くまべぶんあにょ・おとっじょじゃんと。(モンゴルん諺) Kuma bebun anyo/otojjo janto. (mongorun kotowaza)
:jpn: Amami: Kuma ya qusy ga qanyó/ututu na qaram. (mongoru ga khutuwaza)

Conlangs

:epo: La urso ne estas frato de la bovo. (mongola proverbo)
:con: Volapük: Ber no binom blod kona. (spiket mongola)
:con: Ariakis: Artas ne Brot Karvei.
:con: Nolikan: Urus haglaha la taxwin da
:con: Yoketian: Ulma' or āmayna nolpe hepu
:con: Taiwazaiho: wootan yuu hutih huloos kong sa.
:con: Kala: kuma ma uako otauak - 그마 마 우고 오다욱 - bear and cow brother.NEG (ntasa monkola)
:con: Inyauk: Iníkair nahiílinat ikúlax.
DEF-bear-PSR IDF-sibling-PSD DEF-cow-IN
:con: Wistra Gutisk: Baira nist bróþar branón. (Mongls gajuko)
:con: Xylphika: Eði fratem kur qu'e. (paroimia monqolym)
:con: Hezek: Sorruk taj maggolte cagda. (mongol möniskaj)
:con: Feayran: Munthárhrihulukke kobái ulkéuth. (this translation preserves given details)
brother<LEAD-NEG-ESS-INTR-CLS(predator).FOLLOW.S-CLS(large_prey)<LOC.LEAD>> bear<DIR.FOLLOW> elk<LOC.LEAD>
:con: Feayran: Munthárhrituluke. (this translation is more naturally how a feayr would express the proverb's sentiment.)
brother<LEAD-NEG-ESS-INTR-CLS(predator).FOLLOW.S-CLS(small_prey)<LOC.LEAD>>
:con: Wattētexu: Xe kū me kēte xu ta kāmo ta mōko (ne toxiwattē ne mogolīha).

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Re: Bear isn't brother to cow.

Post by míkl » 18 Apr 2011 20:57

Natlangs

:eng: Bear isn't brother to cow. (mongolian proverb)
:deu: Der Bär ist nicht der Bruder der Kuh. (mongolisches Sprichwort)
:nor: Bjørnen er ikke bror til kua. (mongolsk ordspråk)
:dan: Bjørnen er ikke bror til koen. (mongolsk ordsprog)
:swe: Björnen är inte bror till kon. (mongoliskt ordspråk)

:sme: Bierdna ii leat gusa viellja.
:fin: Karhu ei ole naudan veli. (mongolialainen sananlasku)
:hun: A medve nem bátya tehénnek. (mogol közmondás)

:lat: Ursus non est frater bovis.
:fra: L'ours n'est pas le frère de la vache. (proverbe mongolien)
:fra: Old French: Li urs n'est pas li frere dela vache.
:ita: L'orso non è il fratello della mucca. (proverbio mongolo)
:esp: El oso no es el hermano a la vaca.

:rus: Медведь не брат корове. (монгольская пословица)
:pol: Niedźwiedź nie jest bratem krowie.

:roc: 雄不是牛的兄弟。 xiong2 bu2shi4 niu2 de xiong1di4
:roc: (Hokkien) 雄毋是牛的兄弟。 hîng m̄-sī gû-ê hiann-tī

:tur: Ayı kardeşi inek değildir. (Moğol Atasözü)
:jpn: 熊は牛のお兄さん・弟じゃない。(モンゴルの諺) Kuma wa ushi no oniisan/otouto janai. (mongoru no kotowaza)
:jpn: Satsugū: くまべぶんあにょ・おとっじょじゃんと。(モンゴルん諺) Kuma bebun anyo/otojjo janto. (mongorun kotowaza)
:jpn: Amami: Kuma ya qusy ga qanyó/ututu na qaram. (mongoru ga khutuwaza)
:kor: 곰은 안형제이다 개에게. gomeun anhyeongje-ida gae-ege bear-TOP NEG-brother-COP cow-DAT.INAN

Conlangs

:epo: La urso ne estas frato de la bovo. (mongola proverbo)
:con: Volapük: Ber no binom blod kona. (spiket mongola)
:con: Ariakis: Artas ne Brot Karvei.
:con: Nolikan: Urus haglaha la taxwin da
:con: Yoketian: Ulma' or āmayna nolpe hepu
:con: Taiwazaiho: wootan yuu hutih huloos kong sa.
:con: Kala: kuma ma uako otauak - 그마 마 우고 오다욱 - bear and cow brother.NEG (ntasa monkola)
:con: Inyauk: Iníkair nahiílinat ikúlax.
DEF-bear-PSR IDF-sibling-PSD DEF-cow-IN
:con: Wistra Gutisk: Baira nist bróþar branón. (Mongls gajuko)
:con: Xylphika: Eði fratem kur qu'e. (paroimia monqolym)
:con: Hezek: Sorruk taj maggolte cagda. (mongol möniskaj)
:con: Feayran: Munthárhrihulukke kobái ulkéuth. (this translation preserves given details)
brother<LEAD-NEG-ESS-INTR-CLS(predator).FOLLOW.S-CLS(large_prey)<LOC.LEAD>> bear<DIR.FOLLOW> elk<LOC.LEAD>
:con: Feayran: Munthárhrituluke. (this translation is more naturally how a feayr would express the proverb's sentiment.)
brother<LEAD-NEG-ESS-INTR-CLS(predator).FOLLOW.S-CLS(small_prey)<LOC.LEAD>>
:con: Wattētexu: Xe kū me kēte xu ta kāmo ta mōko (ne toxiwattē ne mogolīha).
:con: Inniz: La bä naf ok së uf brotak al'e kåá.
DEF.ART.MASC bear.MASC 3.3SNG.OBJ BE INDEF.ART.MASC sibling-MASC to.DEF.ART.FEM cow-FEM
:eng: [:D] | :esp: [:)] | :fra: [:'(] | :zaf: [O.o]

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Re: Bear isn't brother to cow.

Post by Iyionaku » 25 Apr 2018 13:19

míkl wrote:
18 Apr 2011 20:57
Natlangs

:roc: 雄不是牛的兄弟。 xiong2 bu2shi4 niu2 de xiong1di4
:roc: (Hokkien) 雄毋是牛的兄弟。 hîng m̄-sī gû-ê hiann-tī
I'm still not an expert on Mandarin, but I'm pretty sure that 雄 for 'bear' is a typo. It should be 熊.
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Lao Kou
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Re: Bear isn't brother to cow.

Post by Lao Kou » 26 Apr 2018 08:46

Iyionaku wrote:
25 Apr 2018 13:19
míkl wrote:
18 Apr 2011 20:57

:chn: :twn: 雄不是牛的兄弟。 xiong2 bu2shi4 niu2 de xiong1di4
:chn: :twn: (Hokkien) 雄毋是牛的兄弟。 hîng m̄-sī gû-ê hiann-tī
I'm still not an expert on Mandarin, but I'm pretty sure that 雄 for 'bear' is a typo. It should be 熊.
This can occur so easily with programs that use pinyin or bopomofo for input. You type in "xiong" or "ㄒㄩㄥ", you get a menu of choices, you inadvertently push the wrong number, and if you hit send before catching the error, it's all over but the crying. This happens to me in instant messaging more often than I care to admit. Of course, you catch it right after it appears above the input area [>:O], so you bellow an oath to yourself, and indicate that even though you're foreign, you know that that one's not right and should be this. But the natives do this too, so it's not a major league loss of face. And in context, these mistakes are easily retrievable, particularly here, where 熊 and 雄 are both the same sound and same tone. Fortunately, in a forum such as this, you can go back and edit yourself if you care to.

As for the Hokkien, well, writing in dialect is always its own little kettle of woe, but that romanization system has simply gots to go (I doubt that will happen in my lifetime). 毋 for m̄ seems widespread enough in current usage, though I've also seen 呣, 呒, and even 唔 for this. Back in the day, texts seemed to me to be moving away from 的 for ê, opting for 兮 or の (mind, my experience with Hokkien was in Taiwan -- I haven't seen it at work in the wild here on the mainland). More importantly, neither my mainland nor Taiwan resources offer hîng for 熊 (bear). Both have him5 for the colloquial pronunciation (used in most contexts) and hiong5 for the literary pronunciation (as in 熊掌 - bear claw).
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Frislander
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Re: Bear isn't brother to cow.

Post by Frislander » 07 Jan 2019 00:22

I guess I'll make two translations here: one a "literal" translation, and one of the proverb (or what I assume the proverb to be about).

:con: Asta

literal:

pa‘ na‘xwəx ‘ininyatrewuxrəra nəmawə
pa‘ na‘xwəx ‘i-n-inye<atr>-wuxrə-ra nəmawə
NEG bear 3erg-IIs-become<APPL>-brother-REP ox
The bear does not become brother to the ox

sentimental

pa‘ ‘inə‘minnyixəra namə nexsəsə
pa‘ ‘i-n-ə‘min-nyixə-ra namə nexsəsə
NEG 3erg-IIs-join-able-REP fish heron
Herons can't marry fish

Note the idiosyncratic use of the reported suffix in proverbial statements.

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Lambuzhao
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Re: Bear isn't brother to cow.

Post by Lambuzhao » 07 Jan 2019 02:25

I just saw this acted out on Youtube:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sd-4i0tKqCw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nk-SrpaP8oI

[O.O]

Boy, are they ever not brothers.
But they do like to wrassle a lot!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cBDxK-PQnkY

Apparently, bears don't make good brothers to boars, either.

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Imralu
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Re: Bear isn't brother to cow.

Post by Imralu » 07 Jan 2019 02:37

It's all about cows here at the moment.

:con: Ngolu / Iliaqu

Kka tani ju eluajaha uji eluamumu.
NEG sibling NOM.3S.DEF.ICS bear GEN.3S.DEF.ICS bovine
The bear is not the cow's brother.

You could use the dative -s eji (with epenthetic) instead of the genitive uji and that would mean more like "does not behave as a brother to cow" I guess, and that might be the original meaning?
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Lambuzhao
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Re: Bear isn't brother to cow.

Post by Lambuzhao » 07 Jan 2019 03:02

:eng: Eald Ænglisc

a) Nis bera cūs brōþor
NEG=be<PRS.3SG> cow.GEN.SG brother.NOM.SG

Could not resist the making a more alliterative version, by making the cow into a bull:

b) Ne bera ne bula nearon ᵹebrōþru
NEG.CNJ bear.NOM.SG NEG.CNJ bull.NOM.SG NEG=be<PRS.3PL> <COLL>brother.NOM.PL



:got:
a) baira nist brōþar stiuris.
bear.NOM.SG NEG=be<PRS.3SG> brother.NOM.SG bull\calf.GEN.SG

b) Ni baira ni stiur ni sind brōþrjus
NEG.CNJ bear.NOM.SG NEG.CNJ bull\calf.NOM.SG NEG=be<PRS.3PL> brother.NOM.PL

The interesting thing here about the Gothic is that stiur is used for "bull", but also "calf" in Wulfilas, so there is an extra element of tension similar to the calf & lion allegory in Isaiah 11:6.
Last edited by Lambuzhao on 07 Jan 2019 03:40, edited 1 time in total.

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Lambuzhao
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Re: Bear isn't brother to cow.

Post by Lambuzhao » 07 Jan 2019 03:39

:con: Sadrås

The Sadrås prefers to use the masculine Kœbvj 'bull', 'steer'.

a.1) Nejs der Skær der Bfrode dene Kœbvje.
NEG=be<PRS.3SG> DEF.M.SBJ.SG <Skear>SBJ.SG DEF.M.SBJ.SG brother.SBJ.SG DEF.M.OBJ.SG bull.OBJ.SG
The Skear is not brother to the bull.

a.2) Nejs der Skær der Bfrode den Kœbvjes.
NEG=be<PRS.3SG> DEF.M.SBJ.SG <Skear>SBJ.SG DEF.M.SBJ.SG brother.SBJ.SG DEF.M.GEN.SG bull.GEN.SG
The Skear is not the bull's brother.

b) Nerin Bfredere nönder Skær nönder Kœbvj.
NEG=be<PRS.PL> brother<PL>SBJ NEG=CNJ <Skear>SBJ.SG NEG=CNJ bull.SBJ.SG
Neither Skear nor bull are brothers.

FOOTNOTE: There are no longer any bears on Tirga. The distantly related procyonid Raŋkun (Peloronasua nyctanuqui syn. Metachapalmalania ingens ) can approach a bear's proportions, as does the extremely rare megapredacious monotreme the Ölbjår ( Urstrix osobuho syn. Buhoso buhoso, Arktyto buhoso & Ossogulfo janshufdovei). But the main massive omnivorous ursine analog on Tirga would have to be the manxsome Skear (Dringsnappininger septentrionalis ), which is a descendant of the doughty skunk.

Frankly, there oughtn't be any kine-kind around, either. Nevertheless, kine still have life in mythological imagery of various Tirgan cultures, even if the animals themselves have all but disappeared.

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gestaltist
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Re: Bear isn't brother to cow.

Post by gestaltist » 10 Jan 2019 22:57

Īsmay

Bear isn't brother to cow.
older_brother POSS=cow=COP bear=NEG
ugbad ʕ=but=l dakka=2ot
ugbad å'but'al dakk'ōt
/ugbad ɒbutal dakːoːt/
[ugˈbad ɒbuˈtal dakˈkoːt]

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Fluffy8x
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Re: Bear isn't brother to cow.

Post by Fluffy8x » 11 Jan 2019 20:56

:con: Arka

delt de aruuj e bak.
bear COP.NEG younger_brother GEN cow

There are two words for 'brother' in this language: alser (older brother) and aruuj (younger brother).
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gestaltist
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Re: Bear isn't brother to cow.

Post by gestaltist » 11 Jan 2019 21:57

Fluffy8x wrote:
11 Jan 2019 20:56
:con: Arka

delt de aruuj e bak.
bear COP.NEG younger_brother GEN cow

There are two words for 'brother' in this language: alser (older brother) and aruuj (younger brother).
Same in Īsmay. I find it interesting that you chose "younger brother" and I chose "older brother" for the same translation.

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