each other

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xinda
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each other

Post by xinda » 26 Aug 2011 02:58

:eng: The children met each other.
They were playing with each other.
They talked with each other.

:roc: 孩子們對方見面。 Multiple sides acting towards a single goal.
他們一起玩耍。 Subject as a single entity.
他們互相談話。 Indicates reciprocal action.

:con: Proto-Vdangku
Zongdiz xhunt igviadān.
Ozoniatān.
Xhunt vdangiakān.
力在公蝦米????

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Micamo
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Re: each other

Post by Micamo » 26 Aug 2011 05:09

I'll just give a minimal pair here:

:con: Midhera:
carha-za (chat-3pl.P) - They chatted.
carha-le (chat-RECIP) - They chatted with each other.

(The verb root "carha" means to talk about nothing in particular just to pass the time. "Chat" is the closest translation for this I suppose.)
My pronouns are <xe> [ziː] / <xym> [zɪm] / <xys> [zɪz]

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Re: each other

Post by Valoski » 26 Aug 2011 22:19

I was thinking about this the other day. Thought of making a case that indicates the Verb goes both ways.

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Re: each other

Post by Ossicone » 26 Aug 2011 22:30

Amjati has a reflexive case. Sorry you're too late for that.

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Re: each other

Post by taylorS » 27 Aug 2011 02:53

:eng: The children met each other.
They were playing with each other.
They talked with each other.

-----

:roc: 孩子們對方見面。 Multiple sides acting towards a single goal.
他們一起玩耍。 Subject as a single entity.
他們互相談話。 Indicates reciprocal action.

-----

:con: Proto-Vdangku
Zongdiz xhunt igviadān.
Ozoniatān.
Xhunt vdangiakān.

-----

:con: Kassunetian

Fezok twammugaasii
fezo-k twamm-u-gaa-sii
child-PL greet-AORIST-RECIPROCAL-3PL.DEF

Liyekkahasri
liyekk-aha-sri
play-IMPERFECT-3PL.REFLEXIVE

Moyeusri
moy-eu-sri
talk-AORIST-3PL.REFLEXIVE

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Re: each other

Post by Valoski » 29 Aug 2011 18:25

Ossicone wrote:Amjati has a reflexive case. Sorry you're too late for that.
Not reflexive. That's when it goes back to the Subject.
>:l

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Re: each other

Post by Ossicone » 29 Aug 2011 18:31

Reflexive and reciprocal can be easily mashed together. :P

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Re: each other

Post by Valoski » 29 Aug 2011 19:12

Ossicone wrote:Reflexive and reciprocal can be easily mashed together. :P
Silence!

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Re: each other

Post by Ossicone » 29 Aug 2011 20:13

Cállate! ;-)

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Re: each other

Post by Valoski » 29 Aug 2011 20:23

Grahhh.

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Re: each other

Post by eldin raigmore » 29 Aug 2011 22:24

Ossicone wrote:Reflexive and reciprocal can be easily mashed together. :P
But they don't have to be.

Besides; it'd be a voice, not a case, right?

"Reflexive" and "reciprocal", when applied to verbs, are voices.

Some languages can't show reflex and recip by inflecting the verb; instead they have special pronouns. "Reflexive" and "reciprocal", when applied to pronouns, are more like persons than like cases IMO.

But "reflexive" and "reciprocal" don't apply to nouns (nor adjectives, but most importantly not to nouns); so they aren't cases. (Unless they're pronoun-only cases, and as I've said I think they're more like "persons" than like "cases" when they apply to pronouns.)

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Re: each other

Post by Ossicone » 29 Aug 2011 22:31

Eldin, I PM'd you about the reflexive case for nouns in Amjati. (And it is only for reflexives and not reciprocals.)

But maybe you were talking about Valoski's idea.

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eldin raigmore
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Re: each other

Post by eldin raigmore » 30 Aug 2011 23:02

Ossicone wrote:But maybe you were talking about Valoski's idea.
I'm not sure anymore what I was talking about. :oops:
But, I think that yes, I think I was talking about Valoski's idea of a case that shows the verb goes both ways; if the marker is on the verb it's not a case, it's a voice.

Ossicone wrote:Eldin, I PM'd you about the reflexive case for nouns in Amjati. (And it is only for reflexives and not reciprocals.)
Oh, yes. You have a case that marks its noun as both-agent-and-patient.

If one said "Jack-AGT.PAT and Jill-AGT.PAT were kissing", that could be taken either as "Jack and Jill were kissing each other" or "Jack and Jill were kissing themselves". If a language mandatorily* disambiguates it might do so by some other means; perhaps just an extra particle in one clause or the other, or perhaps a voice-marking on the verb in one clause or the other; or perhaps a different form of "and" depending on whether reciprocal or reflexive were meant.

*
Edit: :
Any language could disambiguate optionally, if not obligatorily. Some languages might require the speaker to distinguish between reflexive and reciprocal; others might merely allow it. But it's possible the only means a language provides would be quite wordy: e.g.
"Jack was kissing Jack and Jill was kissing Jill" (reflexive)
vs
"Jack was kissing Jill and Jill was kissing Jack" (reciprocal).


But as you said in Amjati only the "themselves" interpretation is allowed.

So how in Amjati do you mark reciprocals as opposed to reflexives?

Your PM shows several reflexives, but no reciprocals.
Last edited by eldin raigmore on 31 Aug 2011 18:20, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: each other

Post by Ossicone » 31 Aug 2011 00:25

I think reciprocals were going to be regularly marked as ERG/ABS or ERG/DAT. I never really decided.

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Re: each other

Post by masako » 31 Aug 2011 14:22

Kala:

kanku ke ntahim pesoye
3P.RECP TOP children meet.PA
The children met each other.

kanku yotiye
3P.RECP play.PA
They were playing with each other.

kanku kalaye
3P.RECP talk.PA
They talked with each other.

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Re: each other

Post by Xing » 31 Aug 2011 21:55

Wattētexu:

Ko mmōta nāre /Ko mmōta nāre xā raxā
Me maitā xō /Me maitā xō llē raxā
Me kela xō /Me kela xō llē rakā

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Re: each other

Post by Selinki » 01 Apr 2012 20:38

The children met each other.
They were playing with each other.
They talked with each other.

:con: Selinki [s"e:liNki]

Ladnem gostraomo go prom-promae
[l"aDnem g"os:trao:mo go pr"om prom"ae]
child-PL meet-PST-3PL with each-other-GEN

Dmo pajeomo go prom-promae
[Dmo paj"e:omo go pr"om prom"ae]
They play-PST-3PL with each-other-GEN

Dmo gomo go prom-promae
[Dmo g"o:mo go pr"om prom"ae]
They talk-PST-3PL with each-other-GEN

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eldin raigmore
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Re: each other

Post by eldin raigmore » 01 Apr 2012 21:06

xinda wrote::eng: The children met each other.
They were playing with each other.
They talked with each other.
:roc: 孩子們對方見面。 Multiple sides acting towards a single goal.
他們一起玩耍。 Subject as a single entity.
他們互相談話。 Indicates reciprocal action.
:con: Proto-Vdangku
Zongdiz xhunt igviadān.
Ozoniatān.
Xhunt vdangiakān.
Don't we already have a thread in Conlangs about Reflexives and Reciprocals?

Should this thread should be locked and re-directed to that other thread?

Or do the Translations deserve a separate thread?

Or do Reciprocals all by themselves (without Reflexives) deserve a separate thread?

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Re: each other

Post by DanH34 » 01 Apr 2012 23:31

:eng:

Two men saw each-other
Man and woman saw each-other.

:con: Zidhgebzhail

ozilt gAin-ok
ozil aziedzhila gAin-ok
Spoiler:
oz-il-t g-Ai-n-ok
man-ERG.M-DL PST-see-SIMPLE-RECIPROCAL

oz-il az-iedzh-il-a g-Ai-n-ok
man-ERG.SG.M woman-and-ERG-SG.F PST-see-SIMPLE-RECIPROCAL
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Zidhgebzhail Orthography

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Re: each other

Post by Xing » 08 Jun 2016 18:12

:con: Mīrna

Tinar tali can tinar.
child play with child
[tɪnɐr tɐlɪ ʦɐn tɪnɐr]

Nāy vakar can nāy.
3 play with 3
[naːʝ vɐkɐr ʦɐn naːʝ]

Nāy vinvār can nāy.
3 talk with 3
[naːʝ vɪnvaːr ʦɐn naːʝ]

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