He is...

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Iyionaku
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Re: He is...

Post by Iyionaku » 13 Feb 2018 13:17

Lao Kou wrote:
13 Feb 2018 12:27
Iyionaku wrote:
13 Feb 2018 11:07
xinda wrote:
10 Apr 2012 15:31
:twn: Mandarin

他是個漁。
tā shìgè yú
3s be COUNTER fisherman

He is a fisherman.
So 'fisherman' 渔 and 'fish' 鱼 are homophonous in Mandarin (yú). Oh, beautiful Chinese.
I questioned this back on page 1, and I'll question it again.

渔 (yú) means "catch fish", whose homophony with 鱼 (yú) could provide for one an "Oh, beautiful Chinese!" moment, but let's not get carried away. As a verb, it ends up in modern Mandarin in compounds that make it feel positively adjectival/participial:

渔夫 - fisherman
渔民 - fisherfolk (people who make their living fishing)
渔村 - fishing village

are the ones I've heard, but I found some others at the following link:

http://www.iciba.com/%E6%B8%94 (you need to scroll down a wee bit for more compounds)

All that said, I looked it up in that dictionary of "old Chinese" that Des recommended and I bought, and found the definition "捕鱼的人", "one who catches fish" -- aka "fisherman"(okay, back to 'Oh, beautiful Chinese.'), but frankly, as a non-native speaker, it's hard to imagine anyone speaking this way today.

I don't know if xinda was channelling the dynasties or was in a dialect area where 他是個漁。still flies, but as it stands, that sentence sounds incredibly strange to me, and I just envision native speakers doing a [O.O].
Ok, thanks for clarification, I'd have just accepted it otherwise, now I looked it up. My dictionary Pleco has indeed that meaning of 渔 as fisherman, but as you said, 渔民,渔夫,渔人 are all more prevalent. I'll just stick with 渔民 I think (although I am pretty sure that I'll never need it anyway).
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Lao Kou
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Re: He is...

Post by Lao Kou » 13 Feb 2018 13:39

Iyionaku wrote:
13 Feb 2018 13:17
Ok, thanks for clarification, I'd have just accepted it otherwise, now I looked it up. My dictionary Pleco has indeed that meaning of 渔 as fisherman, but as you said, 渔民,渔夫,渔人 are all more prevalent. I'll just stick with 渔民 I think (although I am pretty sure that I'll never need it anyway).
I sometimes run these things past my native-speaker boyfriend to make sure I'm not just blowing smoke, and his reaction to 他是個漁。(and we just used IM, we did not speak) was "Surely, it's '它是条鱼'" -- which means, it sounds like "He/It is a fish." and you just got your measure words wrong.
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Void
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Re: He is...

Post by Void » 13 Feb 2018 21:56

Sarana

Saha söprözēlei.
[ˈsɑxɑ ˈsø̞prø̞ze̞ːle̞i̯]
be-3SG.GNO fisher
"He is a fisherman."

Saha krī.
[ˈsɑxɑ kriː]
be-3SG.GNO strong
"He is strong."

Saha ölserün.
[ˈsɑxɑ ˈø̞lse̞ryn]
be-3SG.PRS husband-1SG.POSS
"He is my husband."

Mā öldörsün.
[mɑː ˈø̞ldø̞rsyn]
be-3SG.PRS house-LOC=in-1SG.POSS
"He is in my house."
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GrandPiano
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Re: He is...

Post by GrandPiano » 14 Feb 2018 04:44

Iyionaku wrote:
13 Feb 2018 13:17
My dictionary Pleco has indeed that meaning of 渔 as fisherman, but as you said, 渔民,渔夫,渔人 are all more prevalent.
Also worth mentioning that there are many characters that have meanings and represented distinct words in Classical Chinese but nowadays are only used in compound words, almost never as words on their own*. For example, the character 狮 means “lion”, but the word for “lion” is 狮子. If you look up 狮 in Pleco, it tells you that it means “lion” and gives some examples of words it’s used in, but doesn’t directly tell you that it can’t stand on its own as a word. It seems that many dictionaries are like this, so you have to be careful. I’m guessing 渔 is like this, too; as an element in compound words it does indeed mean “fisherman”, but that doesn’t mean you can simply translate “fisherman” as 渔.

*The one exception I can think of would be idioms, which are often in Classical Chinese.
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Tuyono
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Re: He is...

Post by Tuyono » 16 Feb 2018 00:27

:con: Źilaa Ruńu

mig idveniś.
be.IPF-3SG.HU fisher.NOM
He/she is a fisherman/woman.

Fishing was considered women's work in this culture, so if a man was doing it they would need to specifically say something like:

ame al mig idveniś.
man here be.IPF-3SG.HU fisher.NOM
This man, he's a fisher.

mig eekla.
be.IPF-3SG.HU strong
He/she is strong.

mig ngieme em huun.
be.IPF-3SG.HU husband.NOM PREP 1SG.OBL
He is my husband.

liseg cra leenar huun.
be.at.IPF-3SG.HU inside home-OBL 1SG.OBL
He/she is in my house.

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Parlox
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Re: He is...

Post by Parlox » 20 Feb 2018 22:38

:con: Bàsupan

Suc̱īvankan ḵic̱ankus̱.
fisher-NOM.MASC.SINGULATIVE 3RD.MASC.SING-ERG.MASC.SINGULATIVE
He is a fisherman.

Ḵic̱ankàn padannas ḵic̱ankus̱.
3RD.MASC.SING-ACC.MASC.SINGULATIVE strong-PRES.EXPE 3RD.MASC.SING-ERG.MASC.SINGULATIVE
He is strong.

Báṟánakan ḵic̱ankan sanans̱na.
husband-NOM.MASC.SINGULATIVE 3RD.MASC.SING-NOM.MASC.SINGULATIVE 1ST.FEM.SING-GEN.FEM.SINGULATIVE
He is my husband.

Susànamkokan ḵic̱ankan sanans̱na.

house-NOM.MASC.SINGULATIVE 3RD.MASC.SING-NOM.MASC.SINGULATIVE 1ST.FEM.SING-GEN.FEM.SINGULATIVE
He is in my house.
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ixals
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Re: He is...

Post by ixals » 31 Mar 2018 23:47

:con: Cissian

Вон е рыбарь.
/ˈʋon je reˈbarʲ/
[ˈʋɔ.ɲe reˈbär]
von-∅ ye rebár'
3SG.M-NOM COP.3SG fisherman

“He is a fisherman.”

Вон е сільни.
/ˈʋon je ˈsʲilʲ.ni/
[ˈʋɔ.ɲe ˈs̪ʲiʎ.n̪i]
von-∅ ye syíl'n-i
3SG.M-NOM COP.3SG strong-SG.NOM.M

“He is strong.”

Вон е мой съпруг.
/ˈʋon je moj sɘˈpruɦ/
[ˈʋɔ.ɲe muj s̪ɘˈpru] ~ [... mɔj ...]
von-∅ ye moy-∅ syprúh-∅
3SG.M-NOM COP.3SG my-SG.NOM.M husband-SG.NOM

“He is my husband.”

Вон е в моім доме.
/ˈʋon je ʋ moˈjim ˈdo.mʲe/
[ˈʋɔ.ɲeu̯ muˈjim ˈd̪ɔ.mʲe]
von-∅ ye v moy-ím dóm-ye
3SG.M COP.3SG in my-SG.LOC.M house-SG.LOC

“He is in my house.”
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Artaxes
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Re: He is...

Post by Artaxes » 17 Mar 2019 14:36

1.
Han tłaalerá du.
[3.SG.PERS.PRON fisherman MASC-be]
[han t͡ɬaːlerá du]
He is (a) fisherman.

2.
Han tṣángag.
[3.SG.PERS.PRON MASC-become.strong-PASS]
[han t͡ʃáŋag]
He is strong.

3.
Han méra násto du.
[S.SG.PERS.PRON I-POSS husband MASC-be]
[han méra násto du]
He is my husband.

4.
Han méraḥ caánaḥ-so du.
[3.SG.PERS.PRON I-POSS-LOC house-LOC-in MASC-be]
[han mérax cáːnax so du]
He is at/in my house.

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Dormouse559
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Re: He is...

Post by Dormouse559 » 19 Mar 2019 06:13

Updating Image Silvish. Each of the sentences uses the copula verb èttre. Note on the first sentence: In the object position of a copular expression, an indefinite noun takes no article. Note on the fourth sentence: The subject's gender is ambiguous; the third-person singular pronoun's gender marking gets neutralized by contraction in all four translations, but unlike the other sentences, this one contains no other agreement targets or lexical hints.


L' e ppehhérou.
[lɛp.pɛˈhe.ʁu]
3S be fisherman

He is a fisherman.

L' e ffor.
[lɛˈfɔʁ]
3S be strong.M

He is strong.

L' i mmon eùmou.
[lɛ̃m.mŋ̩ˈø.mu]
3S be 1SG.POSS husband

He is my husband.

L' e ddyun mê mêzwi.
[lɛˈdjœ̃ŋ mɛː.mɛˈzwi]
3S be in 1SG.POSS.OBL.F house.OBL

He/She is in my house.

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spanick
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Re: He is...

Post by spanick » 26 Mar 2019 17:15

Weddisch (Updated from Nortsääenglisch)

Hie’s vischer.
/hiːs vɪʒər/
He’s a fisherman.

Hie's mauchty.
/hiːs maʊχtiː/
He’s strong.

Hie’s myn gúedman.
/hiːs mɛɪn gyːdman/
He’s my husband.

Hie's in myn huus.
/hiːs ɪn mɛɪn huːs/
He is in my house.
Last edited by spanick on 19 Apr 2019 02:51, edited 2 times in total.

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HJH
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Re: He is...

Post by HJH » 18 Apr 2019 18:14

:con: Casia

He is a fisherman.

ned vtaelmeka
/ɲets tɬtaelmøgɒ/
ne-d vtaelmek-a
3.SG.DEF.ABS fish.HAB

He is strong.

ned saob
/ɲets saoθ/
ne-d saob
3.SG.DEF.ABS STAT.strong

He is my husband.

ned aos monb
/ɲets aos munθ/
ne-d aos mo-nb
3.SG.DEF.ABS STAT.husband 1.SG.DEF.GEN

He is in my house.

ned aja aremqe monb
/ɲets aɥɒ amyrɟʝʉ munθ/
ne-d aja a-merqe mo-nb
3.SG.DEF.ABS exist LOC.house.OBL.SG.DEF 1.SG.DEF.GEN
Last edited by HJH on 19 Apr 2019 13:36, edited 1 time in total.
:con: Casia- Grammar- Thread

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Herra Ratatoskr
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Re: He is...

Post by Herra Ratatoskr » 19 Apr 2019 00:09

West Saxon

he bue viscre.
/hɛ bœɥ vɪʃɹ̩/
He's a fisherman.

he bue strong.
/hɛ bœɥ stʁɔɑŋ/
He's strong.

he bue mi wer.
/hɛ bœɥ mɪ wɛɹ/
He's my husband.

he's on min huos.
/hɛz ɔn mɪn hus/
He's in my house.
While already reduced some, since "he" and "is" are unstressed, it wouldn't be unusual to hear it further reduced to /hɛzn̩ mɪn hus/, though it would very seldomly be written with a double contractions, like "he's'n min huos", unless one were going for an emphatically informal tone.

mxxierxx
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Re: He is...

Post by mxxierxx » 22 Apr 2019 02:47

Baude-Nylandnari

He's a fisherman.
In péshiaar rä.
/ɪn pe:ɕia:ɾ ɾæ/

He's strong.
In stůrgaich rä.
/ɪn stu:ʁgəç ɾæ/

He's my husband.
In méne moayyu-di rä.
/ɪn me:nɛ mɔaju: di: ɾæ/

He's in my house.
In howse moayyu-di-eng rä.
/ɪn hɔvzɛ mɔaju: di: ɛŋ ɾæ/

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Mándinrùh
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Re: He is...

Post by Mándinrùh » 03 Jul 2019 03:33

Image Ecclesiastical Atili:

Winakojévis úli.
wina-koje-vi-s uli
fish-get-3-PFV often
'He often fishes'

Líli kóvis.
lili ko-vi-s
strong stand-3-PFV
'He is strong'

Ítä unkátum kóvis.
ita unkatum ko-vi-s
1POSS husband stand-3-PFV
'He is my husband.' (female speaker)
'He is my brother-in-law.' (male speaker)

Ítä házo kokovíkonso.
ita hazo ko-ko-vi-kon-s
1POSS house at-stand-3person-3container-PFV
'He is at my house.'

Apart from the first item, these all use the verb ko, stand. BUT BEWARE! Atili has a second copula, dálï, sit. Using sit as a copula can be viewed as slightly irreverent, dismissive, or rude, and may even change the meaning of the sentence!

Líli dalívis.
lili dali-vi-s
strong sit-3-PFV
'He is fat.'

Ítä unkátum dalívis.
ita unkatum dali-vi-s
1POSS husband sit-3-PFV
'He is still my (lazy) husband.' (female speaker)
'He is my (lazy) brother-in-law.' (male speaker)

Ítä házo dalidalivíkonso.
ita hazo dali-dali-vi-kon-s
1POSS house at-sit-3person-3container-PFV
'He is at my house.' (but sitting down)
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CivilixXXX
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Re: He is...

Post by CivilixXXX » 04 Jul 2019 20:11

Gēnù súngercēru.
Gēnù súnger-cēru.
He fish-man.
/ɡeːnù súŋɡerʃeːru/

Kḕhōi gēnù.
Kḕhoi gēnù.
Strong he.
/kèːxoj ɡeːnù/

Gēnù bánar ye gėrōncéru
Gēnù bánar ye gėrōn-céru
He I GEN. marriage-man
/ɡeːnù bánar je ɡə̆roonʃéru/

Gēnù cor bánar ye nėgā́jado
Genū cor bánar ye nėgā́-jado
He LOC. I GEN. home-place
/ɡeːnù ʃor bánar je ŋ̍gáːʒado/
/tsʲi¹⁴vʲiː⁵³ʎiks³³ iksʔiksʔiks/

brblues
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Re: He is...

Post by brblues » 06 Jul 2019 20:46

:con: BLSL

(ki) lum.bo.ki kun
3SG.ANIM fisher COP
"He is a fisherman."

“kun” is the copula for “noun = noun” constructions; personal pronouns are frequently dropped.

(ki) ma.hɛ
3SG.ANIM ‘to be strong’
"S/he is strong."

Stative verbs are used for predicative adjectives

(ki) mu-he ki.ʔud.ki kun
3SG.ANIM 1SG-GEN.INAL spouse COP
"He is my husband."

This uses the same construction as the “fisherman” example above.

(ki) mu-he sot mɛhɛ
3SG.ANIM 1SG-GEN.INAL house ‘to be located in’
"He is in my house."

A locative verb is employed here – that is, a stative verb that expresses the location “at / inside / near”, with the location as direct object.

Nortaneous
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Re: He is...

Post by Nortaneous » 07 Jul 2019 04:00

What:

Syxas ik ñê maña.
[sʔɐs ɪk ɲeː mɐˈɲɐ]
COP.GNO 3SG=ACC POSS fishing_net
He is a fisherman.

The What "gnomic copula" is unusual in occurring sentence-initially and taking accusative marking. This is because it is descended from an imperative form. An overly literal translation would be "behold him of the fishing net". This is the regular way to form such phrases in What.

Syxas ik tyklwh.
[sʔɐs ɪk təkl̥ɤ̤]
COP.GNO 3SG=ACC strong
He is strong.

Tyklwh is from Proto-Whatic *togælɨ < *togæ 'large' + a common adjectival suffix -*lɨ of unknown sense. The regular descendant of *togæ is tygia 'mountain'. Pairs of semantically drifted nominalized root *adjectives and derived adjectives are common in What.

Syxas ik ñxê ting.
[sʔɐs ɪk ɲˀeː tɪŋ]
COP.GNO 3SG=ACC 1S.POSS man
He is my husband.

Inn ñxê dyñên piu nxia.
[ɪn ɲeː dəɲẽː pɪw ni̯æ]
3SG=NOM 1S.POSS house in COP.PFV
He is in my house.

Nxia is a contraction of nxyngiah; it's clear that it has to be some sort of irregular development, because the only regular source of -ia is stressed *æ after velars. Similarly, dyñên must be a recent compound, because the voicing contrast in plosives was lost outside stressed syllables, and usually spread breathy voice onto following stressed vowels.

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Void
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Re: He is...

Post by Void » 09 Jul 2019 01:34

Naykakēsiqō.
[ˌnajkakeːʃiˈqoː]
Ø-nayka-kēsiq-ō
3SG.AN-fish-hunt-er

He is a fisherman.

E'ōth.
[eˈʔoːθ]
Ø-e'ō-th
3SG.AN-strong-ABS

He is strong.

Astīmyī.
[ʔas̺ˈtiːmʃiː]
Ø-astīm-yī
3SG.AN-husband-1SG.POSS

He is my husband.

Yaktsipanyī.
[jaktʃɪˈpanʃiː]
Ø-yaktsi-pan-yī
3SG.AN-house-LOC-1SG.POSS

He is in my house.
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Re: He is...

Post by SkyFry » 13 Aug 2019 18:27

Haasvian

He is a fisherman.
[He forfish is]
Jhe helobol el.

He is strong.
[He strong]
Jhe bith.

He is my husband
[He partner(rom.)-me.poss]
Jhe osreph'hvo'vi.

He is in my house
[He in house-me.poss.]
Jhe la umzhon'hvo'vi.
Ha bhrag...

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KaiTheHomoSapien
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Re: He is...

Post by KaiTheHomoSapien » 21 Aug 2019 05:30

:con: Lihmelinyan

Word order is relatively free here, though "to be" is usually placed first if there is no subject. The 3rd person singular pronoun "sa" is optional and would be used for emphasis or to avoid ambiguity.

(Sa) héti gústār.
(he) be.PRES.3SG fisher-NOM.SG
He is a fisherman.

(Sa) héti aláras.
(he) be.PRES.3SG strong-NOM.SG
He is strong.

(Sa) héti zéyas yéhnār.
(he) be.PRES.3SG my-NOM.SG.MASC husband-NOM.SG
He is my husband.

(Sa) héti zéyei ánkei.
(he) be.PRES.3SG my-LOC.SG.MASC house-LOC.SG
He is in my house.

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