Nationality

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marvelous
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Nationality

Post by marvelous » 26 Jun 2016 12:50

Hi. I started this account because I'm a conlanger although I have never posted at this message board, and I was thinking about the different ways nationality can be expressed. It's hard for me to think of a specific exercise that would work for every conlang, but in different languages you would say, for example, "I'm German" differently:

English:
I'm German.
COP.1PS German.ADJ

It wouldn't be wrong to say "I'm a German," but it would sound unnatural, despite "I'm an American" sounding perfectly natural. And "I am German" would also be correct, but formal or emphatic.

German
Ich bin Deutsche(r).
i.e. I am [a] German[ person].

Ich bin Deutsch-e
PN.1PS be.1PS German-F.NMZ.

Ich bin Deutsch-er
PN.1PS be.1PS German-M.NMZ.

Chinese:
我是德国人。
Wǒ shì déguó rén.
i.e. I am [a] Germany person.

Wǒ shì déguó rén
1PS COP Germany.N person.N

Of course this is not an exhaustive list of ways to express nationality. Obviously there is not going to be a Germany in everyone's conworlds and con-universes, so you could replace "German" with whatever makes sense in your universe. Since I am making this thread I will translate it into two of my conlangs-in-progress, Abasut' and Gjeyejz-sjayajz.

Abasut':
Ana girmani. /ʔana girmani/
i.e. I [am] German.

Ana 0 girman-i.
PRO.1PS COP Germany-ADJ

(you may notice this is Semitic-derived, but I find it important to mention that it does not have grammatical gender)

Gjeyejz-sjayajz
Yesjelag-uruqac gayeral. /jɛʎ̥˔ɛʟaɢ-uʀuqac ɢajɛʀaʟ/
i.e. Germany-on-Earth [is] my home.

Yesjelag -uru<qa>c gayer-al.
Germany Earth<LOC> home-POS.1P.

Please excuse me if any of my glossing is wrong/incomprehensible; I'm not a linguist.

edit: corrected gayer-al -> gayeral outside the gloss

edit2: added to the English sentence to try to clarify that this is about natural-sounding ways of expressing things, trying to think outside the grammar
Last edited by marvelous on 27 Jun 2016 13:53, edited 2 times in total.
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GrandPiano
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Re: Nationality

Post by GrandPiano » 26 Jun 2016 18:46

:esp: Spanish

Same as English:

Soy alemán.
[soj aleˈman]
soy alemán-Ø
COP.1SG.PRS.IND German.M-SG
I'm German.

That's what a man would say. A woman would use the feminine form of the adjective, "alemana".
:eng: - Native
:chn: - B2
:esp: - A2
:jpn: - A2

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Lao Kou
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Re: Nationality

Post by Lao Kou » 27 Jun 2016 11:21

Image Géarthnuns

Sí lü sau doitchörs nöi.
1SG-NOM AUX.TRANSC INDEF German-NOM be
I'm a German.

Sí lü doitchlatöit nöi.
1SG-NOM AUX.TRANSC German-NOM be
I'm German.

(adjective will agree in declension with the speaker's name)

Image Japoné語

私 oué j'ga est un(e) Allemand人.
Ouétachi oué j'ga est un(e) Allemandjine.
1SG TOP 1SG NOM be-PRES INDEF.m(f) German.person.mf
I'm a German.

私 oué j'ga est allemand(e).
Ouétachi oué j'ga est allemand(e).
1SG TOP 1SG NOM be-PRES German.m(f)
I'm German.
道可道,非常道
名可名,非常名

Iyionaku
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Re: Nationality

Post by Iyionaku » 28 Jun 2016 09:18

:con: Yélian

Re bai germanian.
[rɛ baɪ̯ xɛɾˈmanjan]
1SG be.1SG German
I'm a German.

This works when someone belongs to the German people by ancestry. However, someone can also say:

Re germánbai.
[rɛ xɛɾˈmanbaɪ̯]
I am german.

This works as soon as someone acquired the German language and today is preferred due to its political correctness.

:con: Caelian

Rar garmesen byäi.
[raɾ gaɾmɛˈʒɛn bɪ̯æɪ̯]
1SG.NOM german.DERV COP.1SG>3SG

Rar garmabyan byäi.
[raɾ gaɾmaˈbʲan bɪ̯æɪ̯]
1SG.NOM german.LOC COP.1SG>3SG

Rar garmenkyon byäi.
[raɾ gaɾmɛŋˈkʲɔn bɪ̯æɪ̯]
1SG.NOM german.ABL COP.1SG>3SG

Rar garmowyen byäi.
[raɾ gaɾmɔʋɛn bɪ̯æɪ̯]
1SG.NOM german.ESS COP.1SG>3SG

The first sentence translates as "I was born in Germany" (Derivative case), while the third says "I am from Germany" (I come from there, Ablative case). The second sentence just translates as "My location is in Germany" (Locative case), while the last one means "I am german, I am from the german people" (Essive case, literally "I am as a German").
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Sglod
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Re: Nationality

Post by Sglod » 28 Jun 2016 12:44

French:

Je suis allemande
1s be.1s.PRS german.F
I'm German (feminine)
[ʒə sɥi‿zalmɑ̃d]

Je suis allemand
1s be.1s.PRS german.M
I'm German (masculine)
[ʒə sɥi‿zalmɑ̃]

Welsh:

Dw i'n Almaenes
be.1s.PRS 1s-PART german-F
I'm a German woman
[dʊ̯in aɫˈmɑɨnɛs]

Dw i'n Almaenwr
be.1s.PRS 1s-PART german-F
I'm a German man
[dʊ̯in aɫˈmɑɨnʊr]

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Frislander
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Re: Nationality

Post by Frislander » 28 Jun 2016 22:18

Frislandian

Frislandian is generally zero-copula. This is generally used for permanent states.

hem Alemaniakisonanus
[hɛm ˈa.l̪ɛ.ˌma.n̪i.a.ˌki.s̪on̪a.n̪ʊs̪]
1 germany-person-ACC
I am German

However, nowadays there is a tendency to express nationality (and identity more generally) by adverbial (i.e. locative) means, due to an increasing perception of impermanence, which requires a "helping" verb.

Alemaniakisonataa kaalpap
[ˈa.l̪ɛ.ˌma.n̪i.a.ˌki.s̪o.n̪a.ˌt̪aː ˈkaːl̪.pap̚]
germany-person-LOC stand.IND.1
I am German

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Imralu
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Re: Nationality

Post by Imralu » 01 Jul 2016 17:48

:con: Ngolu / Iliaqu

O tiamani nu.
entity Germany NOM.1s.ICS
I'm a Germany-entity.

O could be swapped with other words meaning things like "person", "woman", "man", "child" etc. if you want to be more specific, but placing "o" before something is the simplest and most common way to express anything associated with something else.
Glossing Abbreviations: COMP = comparative, C = complementiser, ACS / ICS = accessible / inaccessible, GDV = gerundive, SPEC / NSPC = specific / non-specific, AG = agent, E = entity (person, animal, thing)
________
MY MUSIC

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Omzinesý
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Re: Nationality

Post by Omzinesý » 25 Sep 2016 15:41

Nationality as an adjective:
Ek s deuc.

Citizenship as an adjective:
Ek s deuclandisc.

Adjectives can be nominalized by adding an article:
Ek s en deuc.
Ek s en deuclandisc.

Iyionaku
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Re: Nationality

Post by Iyionaku » 25 Sep 2016 16:13

Omzinesý wrote:Nationality as an adjective:
Ek s deuc.

Citizenship as an adjective:
Ek s deuclandisc.

Adjectives can be nominalized by adding an article:
Ek s en deuc.
Ek s en deuclandisc.
:thumb: A feature I would love so much in Standard German. So many pointless discussions could have been avoided if you could easily differentiate between "deutsch" and "deutschländisch" ("German" and "Germanyman")
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Void
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Re: Nationality

Post by Void » 27 Sep 2016 20:17

Wołaska

Jem cydołądarz.
[jɛm ˈt̪͡s̪ɨd̪ɔˌwɔn̪d̪aʂ]
be.1SG-PRS germany.AGENT-MASC
I am a German (man).

Jem cydołądarznia.
[jɛm ˈt̪͡s̪ɨd̪ɔwɔn̪d̪ˌaʐɲa]
be.1SG-PRS germany.AGENT-FEM
I am a German (woman).

Jem cydołądzki.
[jɛm ˈt̪͡s̪ɨd̪ɔˌwɔn̪t̪͡s̪kʲi]
be.1SG-PRS german.MASC
I am German (masculine).

Jem cydołądzka.
[jɛm ˈt̪͡s̪ɨd̪ɔˌwɔn̪t̪͡s̪ka]
be.1SG-PRS german.FEM
I am German (feminine).
Rjimâyin

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Imralu
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Re: Nationality

Post by Imralu » 24 Sep 2017 03:23

:tan: Swahili:

Mimi ni Mjerumani.
1s COP German.person(1)
I'm (a) German.
Glossing Abbreviations: COMP = comparative, C = complementiser, ACS / ICS = accessible / inaccessible, GDV = gerundive, SPEC / NSPC = specific / non-specific, AG = agent, E = entity (person, animal, thing)
________
MY MUSIC

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