The Priest Wrote the King a Letter

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GrandPiano
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Re: The Priest Wrote the King a Letter

Post by GrandPiano » 01 Jan 2017 08:41

:con: Lurghinian

Jluiǵ vuamaź tiojolh gēnē.
[d͡ʒlwɪɣ vwəˈmɐʒ ˈtjɔd͡ʒɔɬ geːˈneː]
Ø-jluiǵ-Ø Ø-vuam-aź Ø-tioj-olh gēn-ē
SG-priest-NOM SG-ruler-DAT.AN SG-letter-ACC.INAN write-REM.AN

The priest wrote the ruler a letter.
:eng: - Native
:chn: - B2
:esp: - A2
:jpn: - A2

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Re: The Priest Wrote the King a Letter

Post by Void » 17 Jan 2017 16:14

:con:

Ardhai iša tarradu lisišik.
[ˈarðai̯ ˈiʃa ˈtar:adu liˈsiʃik]
priest write-3SG.PERF king-ALL write-PERF.PART-DIM-ACC
The priest wrote the king a letter.

:got:

Gudja melida þiudana bokos.
[ˈguðja ˈme:liða ˈθiu̯ðana ˈbo:ko:s]
priest write-3SG.PST king-DAT letter-PL.ACC
The priest wrote the king a letter.
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Re: The Priest Wrote the King a Letter

Post by Frislander » 21 May 2017 15:25

:con: O Kanã

(cea) cisarinĩkĩ‘aki o keageri ka ‘a beekiace.
[(t͡se̯a) t͡sisaɽinĩ↓kĩʔaki o ke̯aⁿge↓ɽi ka ʔa ⁿbeːki̯a↓t͡se]
(cea) c<is>ari-nĩkĩ-‘a-ki o kea-geri ka ‘a beeki-ace
(HEAR) <PRF>news-write-MASC-3.ERG N person-holy DAT MASC sit-follow
The priestess wrote the king a letter.
Last edited by Frislander on 05 Jun 2017 21:52, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: The Priest Wrote the King a Letter

Post by masako » 21 May 2017 16:01

Kala:

나디고 냐 가나 거 모사 모야여
/natiːko ɲa kaːna kɛ moːʃa mojaːje/
natiko nya kana ke mosa moyaye
religious-AG for leader O letter write-PST
The priestess wrote the king a letter.

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GrandPiano
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Re: The Priest Wrote the King a Letter

Post by GrandPiano » 21 May 2017 18:39

:lat: Latin

Sacerdos regi epistulam scripsit.
[saˈkɛrdoːs ˈreːgiː ɛˈpɪstʊlã ˈskriːpsɪt]
sacerdos reg-i epistul-am scrips-it
priest.NOM.SG king-DAT.SG letter-ACC.SG PRF\write-3SG.PRF.ACT.IND

The priest wrote the king a letter.

:jpn: Japanese

司祭は王様に手紙を書いた。
Shisai wa ousama ni tegami o kaita.
[ɕi̥sai ɰᵝa oːsama ni tegami o káita]
shisai wa ousama ni tegami o ka-ita
priest TOP king to letter OBJ write-PST

The priest wrote the king a letter.
:eng: - Native
:chn: - B2
:esp: - A2
:jpn: - A2

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Re: The Priest Wrote the King a Letter

Post by Threr » 22 May 2017 15:30

:con: Deyryck :

The priest wrote the king a letter.
Manaak kiis'nélapa'
[mɑnɑɑk kiis'nelɑpɑ]
king religion-man'letter-past-GOAL:none

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Frislander
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Re: The Priest Wrote the King a Letter

Post by Frislander » 22 May 2017 20:25

Threr wrote::con: Deyryck :

The priest wrote the king a letter.
Manaak kiis'nélapa'
[mɑnɑɑk kiis'nelɑpɑ]
king religion-man'letter-past-GOAL:none
That's not a phonetic transcription. a proper phonetic transcription would use full IPA, would not show the elision marks, and it's never in italics either. The proper transcribed version would be something like [mɑnɑːk kiːsnélɑpɑ] or whatever it happens to be.

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Re: The Priest Wrote the King a Letter

Post by GrandPiano » 22 May 2017 20:51

Frislander wrote:
Threr wrote::con: Deyryck :

The priest wrote the king a letter.
Manaak kiis'nélapa'
[mɑnɑɑk kiis'nelɑpɑ]
king religion-man'letter-past-GOAL:none
That's not a phonetic transcription. a proper phonetic transcription would use full IPA, would not show the elision marks, and it's never in italics either. The proper transcribed version would be something like [mɑnɑːk kiːsnélɑpɑ] or whatever it happens to be.
As far as I can tell, the only thing actually wrong with that transcription is that it's in italics. Doubling letters is an alternate way of showing vowel length and gemination (although [ː] is much more commonly used, and double vowel letters are usually only used if there's a reason to analyze it as two vowels rather than one long vowel), and the ['] was probably meant to mark stress (although strictly speaking, it should be [ˈ], not an apostrophe). I'm also not sure what you mean by "full IPA" - what element of the transcription (other than the non-standard apostrophe) is not part of the full IPA?
:eng: - Native
:chn: - B2
:esp: - A2
:jpn: - A2

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Re: The Priest Wrote the King a Letter

Post by Frislander » 22 May 2017 22:02

GrandPiano wrote:
Frislander wrote:
Threr wrote::con: Deyryck :

The priest wrote the king a letter.
Manaak kiis'nélapa'
[mɑnɑɑk kiis'nelɑpɑ]
king religion-man'letter-past-GOAL:none
That's not a phonetic transcription. a proper phonetic transcription would use full IPA, would not show the elision marks, and it's never in italics either. The proper transcribed version would be something like [mɑnɑːk kiːsnélɑpɑ] or whatever it happens to be.
As far as I can tell, the only thing actually wrong with that transcription is that it's in italics. Doubling letters is an alternate way of showing vowel length and gemination (although [ː] is much more commonly used, and double vowel letters are usually only used if there's a reason to analyze it as two vowels rather than one long vowel), and the ['] was probably meant to mark stress (although strictly speaking, it should be [ˈ], not an apostrophe). I'm also not sure what you mean by "full IPA" - what element of the transcription (other than the non-standard apostrophe) is not part of the full IPA?
OK, maybe that was a bit exaggerated, but that is still not a proper transcription. There's also the confusion of the apostrophes in the romanisation (which I think represents elision in the first instance, no clue about the second) with the apostrophe in the romanisation (which should't be there if it's not representing an ejective).

You can use double vowels for length? I didn't actually know that.

By "full IPA" I guess I meant something like "using the IPA and not mashing it up with some alternative romanisation in a sort of ad-hoc system", though yeah that is ambiguous.

And my point still stands: what is given here is not a proper phonemic transcription following the conventions which have been established for them.

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Re: The Priest Wrote the King a Letter

Post by qwed117 » 22 May 2017 23:45

Threr wrote::con: Deyryck :

The priest wrote the king a letter.
Manaak kiis'nélapa'
[mɑnɑɑk kiis'nelɑpɑ]
king religion-man'letter-past-GOAL:none
Based on his thread, where he directly put the IPA, it was [manaat kiisʔnelapa], but I think he's completely gone and changed it over the two years.
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Re: The Priest Wrote the King a Letter

Post by GrandPiano » 23 May 2017 01:41

Frislander wrote:You can use double vowels for length? I didn't actually know that.
Yeah, it's not the usual convention but I'm pretty sure I've seen it before. It's probably most common in transcriptions of languages like Japanese where long vowels can also be analyzed as sequences of two of the same vowel.
qwed117 wrote:
Threr wrote::con: Deyryck :

The priest wrote the king a letter.
Manaak kiis'nélapa'
[mɑnɑɑk kiis'nelɑpɑ]
king religion-man'letter-past-GOAL:none
Based on his thread, where he directly put the IPA, it was [manaat kiisʔnelapa], but I think he's completely gone and changed it over the two years.
Huh, I figured based on the accent over the <é> that the apostrophe represented stress, but I could very well be wrong.
:eng: - Native
:chn: - B2
:esp: - A2
:jpn: - A2

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Re: The Priest Wrote the King a Letter

Post by Reyzadren » 23 May 2017 02:29

:con: griuskant (without the conscript)

yilge xeka nezouv ki saeth.
/'jilgə 'ɣəka 'nəzˤɔuv ki 'seθ/
priest-N write-V message to king
Last edited by Reyzadren on 10 Jan 2019 15:05, edited 5 times in total.
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Re: The Priest Wrote the King a Letter

Post by Imralu » 23 May 2017 02:35

:tan: Swahili:

Mtawa alimwandikia mfalme barua.
mtawa a-li-mw-andik-i-a mfalme barua
priest(N1) 3s.ANIM-PST-3s.ANIM-write-APPL-Ø king(N1) letter/s(N9/10)
Glossing Abbreviations: COMP = comparative, C = complementiser, ACS / ICS = accessible / inaccessible, GDV = gerundive, SPEC / NSPC = specific / non-specific, AG = agent, E = entity (person, animal, thing)
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Re: The Priest Wrote the King a Letter

Post by marvelous » 23 May 2017 14:28

:con: Ganur lon

Onguha dostont ca'xeg senjong.
[oŋˈgu.ha ˈdos.tont caˈxeg 'sen.joŋg]
0-ong-u-ha dost-ont ca=xeg sen-j-ong
3SG.SBJ-write-3SG.NTOP.OBJ-PST holy-person DAT=leader concrete.thing-INDEF.SBJ-write
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Re: The Priest Wrote the King a Letter

Post by Threr » 03 Jun 2017 17:47

qwed117 wrote:Based on his thread, where he directly put the IPA, it was [manaat kiisʔnelapa], but I think he's completely gone and changed it over the two years.
Far from gone.
"ʔ" I don't know what this is in IPA.
manaat, why "t" ? :o

I've never changed anything in my conlang, though I must admit I'm making many mistakes with IPA, so there must be mistakes. Plus deyryck isn't a language with strict phonetic rules.

Sorry for the italic, I didn't think that would that of a big deal. ^^"

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Re: The Priest Wrote the King a Letter

Post by Frislander » 03 Jun 2017 18:17

Threr wrote:"ʔ" I don't know what this is in IPA.
That's the IPA for a glottal stop.
manaat, why "t" ? :o
That'll be a typo I think.
Threr wrote:I've never changed anything in my conlang, though I must admit I'm making many mistakes with IPA, so there must be mistakes. Plus deyryck isn't a language with strict phonetic rules.
Never changed anything in my conlang? If anything I'd argue that's a bad sign, a sign that you're not actively trying to improve or revise anything.

And what do you mean by not having "strict phonetic rules"? If it means what I think it means then that's all the more reason to learn the IPA thoroughly and give us a detailed phonetic transcription according to established conventions.

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Re: The Priest Wrote the King a Letter

Post by qwed117 » 03 Jun 2017 18:25

Frislander wrote:
Threr wrote:"ʔ" I don't know what this is in IPA.
That's the IPA for a glottal stop.
manaat, why "t" ? :o
That'll be a typo I think.
Threr wrote:I've never changed anything in my conlang, though I must admit I'm making many mistakes with IPA, so there must be mistakes. Plus deyryck isn't a language with strict phonetic rules.
Never changed anything in my conlang? If anything I'd argue that's a bad sign, a sign that you're not actively trying to improve or revise anything.

And what do you mean by not having "strict phonetic rules"? If it means what I think it means then that's all the more reason to learn the IPA thoroughly and give us a detailed phonetic transcription according to established conventions.
The t was not a typo.
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Re: The Priest Wrote the King a Letter

Post by Threr » 03 Jun 2017 18:42

Frislander wrote:Never changed anything in my conlang? If anything I'd argue that's a bad sign, a sign that you're not actively trying to improve or revise anything.

And what do you mean by not having "strict phonetic rules"? If it means what I think it means then that's all the more reason to learn the IPA thoroughly and give us a detailed phonetic transcription according to established conventions.
Everything I create for my universe (including conlang) is set to the rule that I can only add things. I can't remove or change things. Whether it is something bad or not is a matter of opinion. :)

Deyryck is not specifically meant to be spoken (using sound). The actual sounds used to speak deyryck I describe here are sounds chosen for human interactions. But they are merely directions. As long as the sounds are close enough to that direction and far enough from other directions to be understood, they're ok.
The t was not a typo.

If your "t" is not typo, then please answer my question. What made you think it should be "t"? :)

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Re: The Priest Wrote the King a Letter

Post by qwed117 » 03 Jun 2017 19:08

Threr wrote:
Frislander wrote:Never changed anything in my conlang? If anything I'd argue that's a bad sign, a sign that you're not actively trying to improve or revise anything.

And what do you mean by not having "strict phonetic rules"? If it means what I think it means then that's all the more reason to learn the IPA thoroughly and give us a detailed phonetic transcription according to established conventions.
Everything I create for my universe (including conlang) is set to the rule that I can only add things. I can't remove or change things. Whether it is something bad or not is a matter of opinion. :)

Deyryck is not specifically meant to be spoken (using sound). The actual sounds used to speak deyryck I describe here are sounds chosen for human interactions. But they are merely directions. As long as the sounds are close enough to that direction and far enough from other directions to be understood, they're ok.
The t was not a typo.

If your "t" is not typo, then please answer my question. What made you think it should be "t"? :)
Your post on the phonology
Threr wrote:a phenomenon... occurs when two identical consonants are next to each other. If they're strong-ones, the first one will be pronounced /t/, if they were Ts it is pronounced /k/ instead.
I assumed this was held even over word boundaries.
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Re: The Priest Wrote the King a Letter

Post by Threr » 03 Jun 2017 19:58

qwed117 wrote:I assumed this was held even over word boundaries.

Ooooh I see! I didn't think it could be interpreted that way!

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