Translation challenge: If you have enough teeth...

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LinguistCat
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Translation challenge: If you have enough teeth...

Post by LinguistCat » 24 Feb 2019 20:09

So friends and I were having a discussion about a dream. My friend dreamed that their very toothy character was a dentist. In response, I wrote:

"If you have enough teeth, they make you a dentist by default."

I realized that there was some ambiguity between whether the teeth themselves made one a dentist, or if some unspecified, dentist-making group of people made you a dentist once you had enough teeth. And it's an odd sentence so why not use it for a translation challenge?

Please translate both:
1) "If you have enough teeth, they [the teeth] make you a dentist by default."
2) "If you have enough teeth, they [unspecified group] make you a dentist by default."

If you have a way to keep the ambiguity as well, that would be great too!

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Reyzadren
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Re: Translation challenge: If you have enough teeth...

Post by Reyzadren » 25 Feb 2019 00:59

:con: griuskant (conversation without conscript)

oc es reca shuvi kaeng, zher raeses hurgi tisa es daega kaengstoene.
/'ɔtʃ 'əs 'rətʃa 'ʃuvi 'keŋ, 'ʒər 'resəs 'hurgi 'tisa 'əs 'dega 'keŋstɯnə/
if 4SG have-V enough-A teeth, then 3PL default-A cause-V 4SG become-V teeth.doctor-N

oc es reca shuvi kaeng, zher es hurgi aendaegan zhas kaengstoene.
/'ɔtʃ 'əs 'rətʃa 'ʃuvi 'keŋ, 'ʒər 'əs 'hurgi 'endegan ʒas 'keŋstɯnə/
if 4SG have-V enough-A teeth, then 4SG default-A TR-become-V-PASS T0 teeth.doctor-N
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Dormouse559
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Re: Translation challenge: If you have enough teeth...

Post by Dormouse559 » 25 Feb 2019 04:24

:con: Silvish can't maintain the ambiguity with this pair of sentences. For general expressions, it has the indefinite pronoun on, which I've used in the second sentence. The masculine third-person plural pronoun can be used as an indefinite, which introduces ambiguity if there is also a masculine plural noun it could refer to. That doesn't happen with these sentences because dan "tooth" is feminine.

S' que t' êya preu de dan, ella ffan de toû in dantistou par defâ.
[ske.tɛː.jəˈpʁø dəˈdɑ̃ŋ | ʔɛl.lɑˈfɑ̃ŋ dəˈtuː ʔɛ̃n.dɑ̃ˈti.stu pɑʁ.dəˈfɑː]
if SBRD 2S have-SBJV enough of tooth | 3.F-PL make.3P of 2S.DISJ INDEF dentist by default

If you have enough teeth, they [the teeth] make you a dentist by default.

S' que t' êya preu de dan, on fyé de toû in dantistou par defâ.
[ske.tɛː.jəˈpʁø dəˈdɑ̃ŋ | ʔɔ̃ˈfje dəˈtuː ʔɛ̃n.dɑ̃ˈti.stu pɑʁ.dəˈfɑː]
if SBRD 2S have-SBJV enough of tooth | INDEF_PRO make.3S of 2S.DISJ INDEF dentist by default

If you have enough teeth, they [unspecified group] make you a dentist by default.

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spanick
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Re: Translation challenge: If you have enough teeth...

Post by spanick » 25 Feb 2019 17:59

Weddisch does have an indefinite personal pronoun "man" but its use is both strongly associated with German and also with older speakers. "Dey can be used for either sentence, which maintains the ambiguity of the original English. In these two the only significant change is the pronoun, since plural verbs and the third person singular are conjugated identically.

1. If du hast enow tiet, dey standard du aan tóetdokter mekes.
2. If du hast enow tiet, man standard du aan tóetdokter mekes.
Last edited by spanick on 20 Apr 2019 05:11, edited 1 time in total.

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Lao Kou
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Re: Translation challenge: If you have enough teeth...

Post by Lao Kou » 26 Feb 2019 07:20

Image Géarthnuns

Öçek la sük nöiksüch frinalöküch hauwéböth sho, rhük la öçket höi sau nöikütezemars ban vanöi hetsugöf.
2SG-NOM AUX.PRES INDEF.PL tooth-ACC.PL enough-ACC.PL have-SPEC PTCL, 3PL-NOM AUX.PRES 2SG-ACC PTCL INDEF dentist-NOM PTCL.CAUS become tacitly.assent-CONCL
If you have enough teeth, they [the teeth] make you a dentist by default.

Öçek la sük nöiksüch frinalöküch hauwéböth sho, seth lav öçket höi sau nöikütezemars ban vanöi hetsugöf.
2SG-NOM AUX.PRES INDEF.PL tooth-ACC.PL enough-ACC.PL have-SPEC PTCL, 3SG-NOM AUX.PRES.IMPERS 2SG-ACC PTCL INDEF dentist-NOM PTCL.CAUS become tacitly.assent-CONCL
If you have enough teeth, they [unspecified group] make you a dentist by default.
If you have a way to keep the ambiguity as well, that would be great too!
Since the ambiguity is a fluke of English, I'm not sure why one would want to "keep" it or "get rid of" it.

For the second Géarthnuns sentence, "seth", the seventh declension third person singular pronoun, plus the auxiliary in the impersonal voice, covers the use of "man/men/on". If you change the auxiliary to the transcendent tense, it would add a gnomic vibe, which felt a little heavy-handed here.
道可道,非常道
名可名,非常名

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