Pazmat mk.II (NP: Roadmap for future posts)

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Re: Pazmat mk.II (NP: Syllabification and Stress)

Post by tezcatlip0ca » 07 Nov 2014 07:36

What are the demonstratives in Pazmat and how do they decline? Can they modify a nominal, or are they just essentially third person pronouns with a proximal/distal distinction? Can I simply use a definite noun, like vegirū, to express "this book"?

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Re: Pazmat mk.II (NP: Syllabification and Stress)

Post by Chagen » 07 Nov 2014 18:32

tezcatlip0ca wrote:What are the demonstratives in Pazmat and how do they decline? Can they modify a nominal, or are they just essentially third person pronouns with a proximal/distal distinction? Can I simply use a definite noun, like vegirū, to express "this book"?
Funny that you ask this as I was working on it yesterday AND was thinking of making a post on it soon! But to quickly answer your questions:

Demonstratives are not as commonly used. The definite of a noun can easily mean "that/this X":

vēgirūya jhaye ātam.
book-DEF.SG-ACC 1S.DAT give.IMP.SG
Give the book to me OR Give that book to me

Ḥoy, kirtūrau wṛthī ḥura!
INTERJ dancer-DEF.PL beautiful most
Ah, these dancers are most beautiful!

However, when clarity is needed, there are two main demonstratives: dāvā "that" and kūvā "this". They inflect like pronouns, come before nouns, and do not agree with them except in case and number. They are always definite as well. One thing to note is that since they're not as commonly used, they often have a forceful meaning: dāvām korāmi is literally "with that blade", but it usually has a sense more of "with that blade" or "with that particular blade".

Also, in the locative, dāvāv means "there" and kūvāv means "here". Their datives, dāvāye kūvāye mean "to there" and "to here" (e.g kūvāye! "[come] here!"). Their genitives, dāvāt kūvāt mean "because of that/this".

There are four more demonstratives formed from these. dāravā and kūravā have an intensive meaning:

Cirsvūsam. Dāravīye wufrīyyīm mētam.
help-INFIN-ABLOC DEM.DIST.INTENS-DEF.PL boy-DEF.PL-DAT talk-IMP.SG
I can't help (you). Go talk to those boys way over there

Kūravāv, murasā!
DEM.PROX.INTENS-DEF.PL-LOC idiot-DEF.SG-NOM
It's right here, idiot!

The even MORE intensive forms dāthoravā and kūthoravā are used for stuff even further away or closer, but oftentimes you need an expletive to get the meaning across when translating:
Jhāṣ gīgvūya iyyot, dṛk Śṛdirū dāthoravāv Sunselāva.
1S.ACC believe-INFIN-ACC NEG.FUT-2S but NAME-NOM DEM.DIST.INTENS-DEF.SG-LOC Sunzaku-DEF.SG-LOC
You wont believe me, but Śrdiru is all the fucking way over in Sunzaku.

Kūthoravāv, murāsa!
DEM.PROX.INTENS-DEF.SG-LOC idiot-DEF.SG-NOM
It's right fucking here, idiot!

They often function as simple third-person pronouns too: kūvīṣ ukī "I like these (things)", Dāvā drēḥvūyīm jadh allu! "That's very good to hear!"


In the full post to be made later, I'll go over the locative demonstratives, which can have some incredible succinctness: śrāvīṣ iśtrāva draḥawa? "You guys hear those things in front of the car?" or sūbīt ḥesrāva,wṛbīm boystvūya yī... "I don't feel safe with these things underneath the house..."
Nūdenku waga honji ma naku honyasi ne ika-ika ichamase!
female-appearance=despite boy-voice=PAT hold boy-youth=TOP very be.cute-3PL
Honyasi zō honyasi ma naidasu.
boy-youth=AGT boy-youth=PAT love.romantically-3S

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Re: Pazmat mk.II (NP: Ablaut fixes)

Post by Chagen » 17 Nov 2014 19:04

Minor Ablaut Tweaks

Yup, folks, it's time for another minor tweak of Pazmat! This concerns ablaut and actually doesn't change too much but bear with me.

-ar roots and -er roots represent one of the few instances of true irregularity in Pazmat. Their grades are ar/ō/au and er/ū/eu respectively. Before, this applied to ALL -ar roots and all -er roots.

However, this actually doesn't make much sense when you take into account the syllabification rules I made above. To demonstrate, we must go into Old Pazmat before the vowel changes. Let's take the O.Pazmat root wers- "to stand in front" ( > Pazmat wers- "to defend") in the 1st imperfect: we get *wērs.e.nda. Since the /e/ and /r/ are both in the same syllable, it makes sense that this would reflex as Pazmat wūsena.

However, taking the root *bher- "to hide, keep secret" (Pazmat ver- "to cheat"), we get *bhē.re.nda. Why would the /e/ be affected by the /r/, given that they're in two completely different syllables? Before, this reflexed into Pazmat as vūyena "I am cheating". However, I have changed it: -ar roots and -er roots lengthen like normal -a roots and -e roots if the /r/ is the final consonant; or, they lengthen like normal if they're open. Thus, "I am cheating" is now vīrena. Likewise, "I am living" from nar- used to be nōyana; now it is nērana. However, roots where the /r/ is not the final consonant are still irregular: śtars- > śtōsana "I am moving s.thing", erp- > ūpena "I am holding self-respect". However, suffixing the uncommon suffix -tū to ver- gets us vūtū "lid, trunk (of a car)" because the -er is now closed; historically the word was *bhēr.tér.

This doesn't to much to -ar and -er stem nouns. Most of the time, their reflexes remain the same. For -ar stems, this would change the reflexes of exactly ONE inflection: the indefinite dative singular: *matārēm "for a language" should give us *matērīm, but analogy took over and created matōyīm to bring it in line with the other forms.

Likewise, for -er stems, this would change the indefinite AND definite dative singular; cṛsērīm "for a girl" and cṛsirērīm "for the girl should give us *cṛsīrīm and cṛsirīrīm but analogy once again fixed things into cṛsūyīm cṛsirūyīm, especially since the inherited definite dative singular was just...come on, look at that thing. Ow.

The final results of this is the new -īr class of nouns. A distant, not-very-relevant cousin to the -ar stems and -er stems, the -īr stems are simply -er stems that used the definite markers of the athematics, which make them somewhat similar to the -ar stems. However, like the -er stems, the historical accent always lied on the -er marker; in the indefinite, this results in them being exactly the same as the -er stems except in the dative (the persistence of such a tiny distinction is remarkable). In the definite, however, they act differently.

For instance, the word tamīr "ice box, refrigerator", declines like so:

Indef.Sg: tamū tamūya tamīrīm tamūva... (almost identical to an -er stem)

Indef.Pl: tamūvo tamūyavo tamīrīmvo tamūvavo... (also almost identical to an -er stem)

Def.Sg: tamīro tamīroya tamīroyīm tamīrova...

Def.Pl: tamīrī tamīrīya tamīrīyīm tamīrīva...

Under influence from the -ar stems, sometimes the definite's -īr- contracts to -r: tamrova "in the ice box", tamrīmi "with the ice boxes". This results in a rather ironic situation: in the definite singular, the -īr stems and -ar stems are distinguished by the one morpheme they shared: the definite suffix *-o. Comparing the inflection of tamīr and tamō "cold" (the words come from the root tam- "cold") historically":

*tamaróbha > tamarāva > tamrāva
*tamērobha > tamīrova > tamrova

The -īr stems have been much attacked over the time of Pazmat. Several have been forced into pure -er stem nouns; kirtū "dancer" and śṇtū "bag" used to be kirtīr and śṇtīr. On the other hand, some speakers have taken the class and tried to make it more distinct; speakers from the west, near Sefir and Chyffelb are known to form the indefinite with the suffix as -īr and not -ū; the prestige dialect says "with a judgement (draḥīr) with draḥūmi, but westerners say ḍaḥīrmi (the <ḍ> is from the well-known westerner trait to turn all dental stops + /r/ into retroflexes; they say vēṭa "four" for standard vētra, for instance). These innovations haven't persisted into the prestige dialect though stereotypical westerners in fiction usually have them.

There are exactly one -īn stem word; idīn, which just happens to mean "thing". It inflects like an -an stem but with -en as the suffix, and the definite plural suffix is just -ī- : idīn "a thing", idīnmi "with a thing", idenā "the thing", idnāmi "with the thing", idenī "the things", idnīmi "with the things". Bizarrely enough, the Qulshni cognate to the -īn- suffix forms present participles: baghid "looking (at)", compare the Pazmat root vag- "read". Qulshni also has a root id- that means "be, exist"...thus idīn might simply be an extremely old present participle ("that which is") back when Proto-Pasuu had 8 thousand different ways of making one.

In reality Proto-Pasuu didn't really have participles at all, instead being able to form a variety of nomina actionis ad hoc from verbal roots and then using them with other nouns. The Pazmat participle system was simply Pazmat's particular way of wrangling this into a coherent and logical system.

Speaking of participles, to demonstrate the new reflexes from this tweak here they are for ver- and nar-:


verar- verrīt- vīrrat- vīriv- veraśam- veravay-

narar- narrīt- nērrat- nēriv- naraśam- naravay-

I've actually been thinking of changing some of the participle morphemes, some of them don't agree with me, but I'm undecided. That perfect passive one bugs me the most. I'm thinking of changing it to -ur- as that was it used to be before I rewrote the whole system. The future passive is kind of wonky too...
Nūdenku waga honji ma naku honyasi ne ika-ika ichamase!
female-appearance=despite boy-voice=PAT hold boy-youth=TOP very be.cute-3PL
Honyasi zō honyasi ma naidasu.
boy-youth=AGT boy-youth=PAT love.romantically-3S

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Re: Pazmat mk.II (NP: Syllabification and Stress)

Post by tezcatlip0ca » 07 Dec 2014 08:38

I have a question about the romanization.

The retroflex sibilants are transliterated ch jh ṣ ż. Why the inconsistency? If, like you said in the "What did you accomplish today" thread, they are written in the native script as variants of the palatals, then why don’t you transliterate them all as digraphs ch jh sh zh?

Also, since the grammar is being reworked constantly, is this the current state of the nominal system?

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Re: Pazmat mk.II (NP: Syllabification and Stress)

Post by Chagen » 08 Dec 2014 21:35

The inconsistent romanization is simply because I like Sanskrit, which uses <ṣ> for the same phoneme as Pazmat. In addition, <jh> is the romanization for a very rare sound in Sanskrit, but I like it nonetheless. <ch> is simply to remain consistent with <jh>.

Second, yes, that is correct! From a quick lookover all of those forms are correct.
Nūdenku waga honji ma naku honyasi ne ika-ika ichamase!
female-appearance=despite boy-voice=PAT hold boy-youth=TOP very be.cute-3PL
Honyasi zō honyasi ma naidasu.
boy-youth=AGT boy-youth=PAT love.romantically-3S

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Re: Pazmat mk.II (NP: Syllabification and Stress)

Post by tezcatlip0ca » 09 Dec 2014 02:09

How do consonant and -eqh stems decline now? I can’t quite figure it out...

Also, what exactly is the cutoff age at which you can no longer refer to a man as a wurfō instead of a qiḥ, or to a woman as a cṛsū instead of a jiman? As far as I can tell, the words for ‘boy’ and ‘girl’ in your languages are very influential: in Pazmat their endings define the gender of names and of demonyms in -ez-, and in Sunbyaku they serve as short male/female morphemes for compound words. Would it be correct to assume that ‘boy’ and ‘girl’ are the default category, and ‘man’ and ‘woman’ are subcategories with a secondary connotation of maturity?

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Re: Pazmat mk.II (NP: Syllabification and Stress)

Post by Chagen » 09 Dec 2014 17:20

How do consonant and -eqh stems decline now? I can’t quite figure it out...
They are second declension. I have put these nouns on hold right now. I haven't even made any new ones so they are basically irrelevant right now. I should get to work on rebuilding them, but I feel there might be enough nouns already.
Also, what exactly is the cutoff age at which you can no longer refer to a man as a wurfō instead of a qiḥ, or to a woman as a cṛsū instead of a jiman? As far as I can tell, the words for ‘boy’ and ‘girl’ in your languages are very influential: in Pazmat their endings define the gender of names and of demonyms in -ez-, and in Sunbyaku they serve as short male/female morphemes for compound words. Would it be correct to assume that ‘boy’ and ‘girl’ are the default category, and ‘man’ and ‘woman’ are subcategories with a secondary connotation of maturity?
It isn't actually defined by a cutoff age; instead, one is called a wurfō or cṛsū when they live with their parents. When they become of age--which is supposed to happen at 16 years old but sometimes is delayed (traditionally, they would continue to live near the family property, but were supposed to act independent and move into a small one-bedroom house)--they become a qiḥ or jīman. The younger terms however, are common as affectionate or insulting (depending on the context) terms.

For your second question: yes (sort of). qiḥ and jīman don't connote just maturity but a very specific sense of becoming independent.

This is also subject to change of course--I really need to expand on Paz culture more--but these should be the basics.
Nūdenku waga honji ma naku honyasi ne ika-ika ichamase!
female-appearance=despite boy-voice=PAT hold boy-youth=TOP very be.cute-3PL
Honyasi zō honyasi ma naidasu.
boy-youth=AGT boy-youth=PAT love.romantically-3S

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Re: Pazmat mk.II (NP: Syllabification and Stress)

Post by Chagen » 10 Feb 2015 18:49

Minor Tweaks: Phonology, Reduplication Changes, and More

Another post of minor tweaks I've been working on. Here we go:

Pazmat's phonology is mostly regular, but there are a few tricky aspects to it. First of all, geminate /j/ is pronounced as a palatal fricative; the voiceless [ç] is preferred in the standard Eastern dialect, but the Western dialect often uses the voiced [ʝ]. However, the frication is very weak; oftentimes it sounds more like a slightly-raised approximant. In addition, this pronunciation is common for any /j/ before /i/, even in consonant clusters; nēccavyī "I prepared, got ready" is pronounced roughly [neː.tɕːa.vʝi].

The trickiest part of Pazmat's phonology, however, is undoubtedly is its two rhotics, the normal consonant <r> and the syllabic consonant <ṛ>. To start with the syllabic: it is always pronounced as a syllabic alveolar trill. The normal consonant, <r>, however, always has a retroflex pronounciation; inter-vocally, it is an approximant [ɻ], but after a consonant, it's a true retroflex trill [ɽ]. This causes heavy retroflexion of the dental consonants /t d n θ ð/ (but NOT /s z/), turning them into [ʈ ɖ ɳ θ̠ ð̠] (note that the non-silibant fricatives are true retroflexes, not merely retracted; they sound like /ʂ ʐ/ but non-silibant, almost). Note that the <r> does NOT drop or assimilate into the consonant; doing such is one of the biggest signs of the Western dialect, to the point where fiction uses it to mark characters as uneducated Western bumpkins. In romanization, this is shown with a dot underneath the consonant; cf:

ātrā "the gift" [aː.ʈɽaː] (Western: āṭā [aː.ʈaː]
ṣōdrā "the Shodara*" [ʂoː.ɖɽaː] (Western ṣōḍā [ʂoːɖaː]
wṛthrītā "having been beautiful" [wr̩.θ̠ɽiː.taː] (Western wṛṭhītā [wr̩.θ̠iː.taː]
muddhro "the magic" [mu.ð̠ːɽo] (Western muḍḍho [mu.ð̠ːo])
ranrau "and therefore..." [ɹaɳ.ɽau̯] (Western raṇō [ɹa.ɳɔː]

*:Demon in traditional Paz mysticism which sucks the life force out of people who don't have enough sex/masturbate enough (yes, seriously)

Outside of this, Paz phonology should be rather easy to grasp.

Reduplication Alterations:

Reduplication works a little differently now. In reality, this change alters ONLY vowel-initial roots. We'll need to go back to Proto-Pasuu for this. As I have already stated, PP and Pazmat both ban vowel hiatus. Any such hiatus occurring was blocked by an epenthetic /j/. In Proto-Pasuu, this /j/ wasn't an actual phoneme; it was when PP *pj became Pazmat /j/ that it gained phonemic status. The only exception is when the two vowels were the same syllabic but different grades; then the syllabic expansion rules would take place (put simply: *ṝṛC > *arṛC > arraC, while *ṛṛC > *ṝC > arC)

However, now I have added one exception to this rule: if the vowels were both short, and the same vowel, they simply fell together as a long vowel, which then went through the various changes of Pazmat like normal. This did not occur in any other situation: a long vowel and short vowel, even if the same quality, remained separate. Reduplication only shows, at least right now, in three situations: the Potential formed from a reduplicated syllable with a long grade, a tiny number of adjectives formed from reduplication, usually with intensive or resultive force (kaxak- "broken" from xak- "to cripple, damage", mimidh- "inquisitive, curious" from midh- "to ask", etc.), and in the new optative-conditional mood which I haven't actually described yet.

The potential is irrelevant to this change since it uses a long grade in the reduplication syllable; thus, "I can go" is still īyeyī (e-) and "I can make for myself" is still annadī (ṇd-; remember the syllabic expansion rules?). The adjective formation is barely relevant, but the optative IS highly important. The specifics will come later, but for now, it's formed with basic-grade reduplication and -am-. Thus, mamatamī "I would speak", babadhamū "s/he would maim", etc. However, for vowel initial roots, the two basic grades "collide" and form one single long grade. Thus, "I would go" is NOT *eyeyamī but īyamī, and "I would make for myself" is andamī. Interestingly enough, this doesn't appear very often outside of this formation, mostly from analogy. For instance, the root thi- "see" should form the pluperfect thauruna "I had seen" (thi+iru+na) but does not; it's thiyiruna. The one exception to this is the optative of irregular verbs ending in -a, such as gna- "grieve", nga- "(of a celestial body) be out", and śra- "do": ngagnēmī "I would grive", ngangēmī "(the sun/moon) would be out", and śaśrēmī "I would do".

The second "change" isn't really a change, because it's always been there, really, and I've just never really mentioned it. Causative and Passive verbs reduplicate internally. The original root is kept the same, and the formant -ay- or -ib- reduplicates. For instance, to get the optative of nūcay- "to speed up (s.thing else)", you take the -ay- and reduplicate it. Since it is technically "vowel-initial", the reduplication ends up as -ēy- (not *-ayay-) and then you proceed like normal: nūcēyamī "I would speed (s.thing) up". Likewise for the passive: tor- "to hit" > torib- "to be hit" > toraubamī "I would be hit". Of course, the potential is different: the causative and passive potentials are -ēyay- and -awib-, respectively: nūcēyayī "I can speed (s.thing) up" and torawibī "I can be hit".

//////////////////////


Next post, I will go over the conditional, and how to form conditional sentences.

Also, I just realized the very large amount of morphophonology in this language. It's nowhere near some real-life polylangs, of course, but you have to keep a pretty large amount of (thankfully almost completely regular) rules to correctly produce Pazmat (such as breaking vowel hiatus, turning /j/ into /ş/ before consonants, the syllabic expansion rules--with vowel alterations depending on the preceding consonant--, the reduplication rules, ablaut...)
Nūdenku waga honji ma naku honyasi ne ika-ika ichamase!
female-appearance=despite boy-voice=PAT hold boy-youth=TOP very be.cute-3PL
Honyasi zō honyasi ma naidasu.
boy-youth=AGT boy-youth=PAT love.romantically-3S

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Re: Pazmat mk.II (NP: Diminutives)

Post by Chagen » 17 Apr 2015 22:55

The Diminutive

This is a small post on a feature which has existed for a while but I've just now fully fleshed out. The Diminutive in Pazmat is a productive method with can be applied to just about any noun. While it can be used as an ad hoc way of denoting a miniature/little version of a noun, many diminutives have taken on special meanings, sometimes distant from the original. It also is important for mass nouns. The diminutive is formed differently for each word class, though all but the -er and -ir stems use the same suffix. The diminutive is always either an athematic or a 3rd declension n-syllabic:

Athematics take monolong grade; the result is an n-syllabic:

yed "sword" > yīdan "dagger, short sword"
jad "ocean, sea" > jēdan "little sea, lake"
qiḥ "man" > qūḥan "wimp, bottom man in a gay relationship, gay guy in general (slang, VERY offensive--basically equal to "faggot")

Ablauting suffix nouns put the suffix in the weakest grade and then suffix -as. The new noun is an athematic, and does lengthen in the indefinite:

wurfarā "boy" > wufrasā "little boy, young boy (used to affectionately refer to a son or younger male relative)"
frētharā "river" > frēthrasā "brook, stream"
danśtanā "countryside" > danśtnasā "park (> little countryside), rural area"
nējharā "Sun, star of a solar system" > nējhrasā "lightbulb, lamp, torch"
zrēyanā "friend" > zrēṣnasā "causal acquaintance"
bādharā "war, intense fight" > bādhrasā "skirmish, minor battle in a war"
dumarā "fire (especially an uncontrolled one)" > dumrasā "ember, controlled fire"
rāyanā "ambition, desire" > rāṣnasā "desire (for one particular thing), lust"

-Er and -ir stems keep the length on the -er suffix. Then they turn the new noun into an n-syllabic--because of this, the -er suffix is always -īr-:

cṛsirū "girl" > cṛsīran "little girl, young girl"
vēgirū "book" > vēgīran "small book, novella, pamphlet"
jhṛmirū "army, military" > jhṛmīran "militia, guerrilla fighters"
tamīr "refrigerator" > tamīran "ice chest, cooler"
kodirū "hill, hilly terrain" > kodīran "little hill, knoll"

3rd declension nouns, be they syllabic or vocalic, place the suffix in overlong grade and suffix -as, becoming athematics like the ablauting suffix nouns:

murā "dumbass, idiot" > muroyasā "useless idiot, weak bastard"
eskar "gathering" > eskārasā "clump, haphazard collection"
vṛdhī "law" > vṛdhayasā "suggestion, (in traditional Paz law) a law which incurs only indentured servitude or a fine for breaking it (as opposed to incarceration)

////////////

The diminutive, as the above examples show, obviously denote a smaller sense of the main noun, or affection as well. However, for a few nouns, the diminutive has a special use.

Pazmat possesses a few mass nouns notable by being grammatically singular despite having a plural meaning. A good example is kodarā, which means "waves" (from kod- "to undulate"), referring generally to waves on the surface of water. It has no indefinite at all and no definite plural, and is grammatically singular:

zvitā kodrāya, jadāva, yēyayū
wind-DEF.SG.NOM waves-DEF.SG-ACC sea-DEF.SG-LOC be-CAUS-AOR-3S
Wind causes the waves on the sea

You cannot count kodarā. So how do you say "two waves" or "five waves"? You use the diminutive, kodrasā. Suddenly, you can count waves now:

kādayarāva, kodrēs līrevyū
dip.fingers.into.water-PTCPL.PRES.ACT-ATHEM-DEF.SG-LOC wave-DIMIN.INDEF.SG.NOM bob-PERF-3S
When I dipped my fingers (into the water) a wave bobbed up and down

Frustratingly enough, kodrasā also has the literal diminutive meaning of "little wave" or "ripple". kodrasīva nasīva could mean either "in the five waves" or "in the five ripples". Which meaning is intended depends on context.

Names may also be made diminutive, either to denote friendly/familial affection like a nickname or to insult someone in a patronizing way. It also can be added to adjectives when describing someone playfully/patronizingly, best translated as "mister/miss X":

Śṛdirū: Ḥoy, Kūrayasā! Vētṛtāmi sens, guqat mētvūya awivyaśva!
INTERJ NAME look.at-PTCPL.PST.ACT-ATHEM-DEF.SG-INSTR happy for.a.long.time talk-INFIN-ACC NEG-PERF-1P.INC
Hey, Kurayasā! Glad to see you, we haven't talked for a long time! (lit. "with having seen you, I'm happy...")

Kūrasī: Ṣṛdirū! Jhāye "Kūrayasā"-mi ṣvathīs'!
NAME 1S.DAT NAME-INSTR call-IMP.NEG.SG
Śrdiru! Don't call me "Kurayasa"!

Śṛdirū: Cnā, Bājrīyasā...
INTERJ angry-DIMIN-DEF.SG
Jeez, Miss Bitchy...

*Kūrasī is speaking with with a very northern accent here: pronouncing "Śṛdirū" as "Ṣṛdirū" (northerners merge palato-alveolars into retroflexes), and "swathīsa" as "ṣvathīs'" (<v> is a very faint approximant and also retroflexed /s/) . Also, while this isn't shown, her /a e i o u aj ej oy au eu/ are [ɑ ɪ e o u yː eː eː oː øː].

Some names are Diminutives at their root, such as Zvūtasan, a male name meaning "Little Wind". These can still take an affectionate diminutive, effectively being a double diminutive: Zvūtasan > Zvūtānasā.

Finally, dimuntives are normal nouns and may thus take derivation as usual:

dumarā "fire" > dumrasā "ember" > dumrēs- "smoldering"

rāyanā "ambition, desire" > rāṣnasā "desire (for one particular thing), lust" > rāṣnēs- "lustful, greedy"

cṛsirū "girl" > cṛsīran "little girl, young girl" > cṛsīrān- "adorable"
Nūdenku waga honji ma naku honyasi ne ika-ika ichamase!
female-appearance=despite boy-voice=PAT hold boy-youth=TOP very be.cute-3PL
Honyasi zō honyasi ma naidasu.
boy-youth=AGT boy-youth=PAT love.romantically-3S

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Re: Pazmat mk.II (NP: Comparison, Reworked -ir/er stems)

Post by Chagen » 29 Feb 2016 22:38

Comparison of Adjectives and Revised -er and -ir Nouns

Hello all. I have not posted for a very long time, and I am quite sorry about that. School, depression, suicidal ideation, and fucking all my classes scrambled my brain. But as the finals come and the Christmas vacation looms closer, I'm getting the conlanging bug again. The result has been the addition of new grammar rules and systems. But perhaps more importantly, the long conlanging has made me come into Pazmat with a fresh mind. I have tweaked and altered a ton of little bits of the system--replacing affixes, completely reworking the -er and -ir stems (the latter in particular are almost unrecognizeable from before), and more. Some changes are large, others are tiny (such as a miniscule reworking of the number system). Even such staples as the phonotactics are undergoing very slight changes (nothing major; indeed these changes mostly clarify unstated rules that already existed). Many of these changes will be detailed in a later post. As for now, comparison!

Comparison of Adjectives

For a long while, Pazmat has not had a way to compare adjectives. I could not find a system that suited me, so I pushed it off. As the language grew more and more fleshed out, however, this gaping hole became more and more painfully noticeable. Nevertheless, I avoided tackling it. However, two days I was looking at the post on participles to refresh my memory and look over the system, and I all of a sudden got an idea. Within an hour I had the comparative system down.

What gave me the idea were the passive participles for root adjectives. These have the special meaning of "becoming X" (jag- "strong" > jagrīt- "becoming strong"). It does not take a large leap to go from "becoming strong" to "becoming stronger". And in an instant, I decided to make -īt- the comparative suffix. The rest came quickly.

Unlike the traditional X-Xer-Xest system seen in many Indo-European languages, Pazmat has five degrees of comparison. Outside of the Positive, the Comparative and Superlative have the usual meanings: superiority compared to something else and absolute superiority. Then we have the Inferiorative, which means "less X than Y". The Sublative means "least X". Finally, the Equative means "As X as Y". The endings are:

Comparative: -īt-
Superlative: -allīt-
Inferiorative: -as-
Sublative: -allas-
Equative: -ith-

The -all- in the Superlative and Sublative comes from the adjectival root all- which means "absolute, utter", and is the source of the very common adverb allu. The -as- of the Inferiorative and Sublative comes from the diminuitive suffix. These suffixes are added onto the end of the adjective, but first the adjective must undergo some slight alterations:

-Athematic adjectives do not do anything, directly suffixing: kār- "sharp" > kārīt- "sharper"

--ī adjectives (including roots with -ī) exchange the -ī- for -aw- and suffix: juqrī- "painful" > juqrawīt- "more painful"

-Adjectives formed from 3rd-declension nouns do not change, like athematics: muroy- "foolish/stupid" > muroyīt- "more foolish/stupid"

-All other adjectives lengthen the adjectival suffix and then add the comparative suffixes: ayam- "impatient" > ayēmīt- "more impatient"

These behave like normal adjectives. When directly modifying a noun they agree with it: yedāva kārallītāva "with the sharpest sword"; kūvāv wurfarāsam vṛkawitharāsam "(there are) no boy as bold here"; anpusayat pēvallasasayat "for the least funny old man".

Of course, the main purpose is to compare. Comparisons are done with the dative, and the adjective appears in its bare form, unless it is directly agreeing with a noun: Nāśśerā Śṛdirūt wṛthawīt "Naśśera is prettier than Śṛdiru"; korāsam kārithāsam kūye ṣundōtṛ nūdhayam "there is no blade as sharp as this one in a hundred cities"; jhā Tanterāt jagasā "I am not as strong as Tantera", etc.

When used as adverbs, simply inflect them in the dative as indefinite singular athematics: kārīthīm śṛgū "she writes more strikingly (> "sharply")".

These comparative adjectives can form participles. In conjunction with the various roles participles can take, this can allow for some concise sentences...and some very long words. They do not lengthen:

Jhā ṇpasarāva, dhāvyī na dāvāv frethrāva źīvevyī.
1S.NOM old-INFER-PTCPL.PRES.ACT-ATHEM-DEF.SG-LOC rejoice.PERF-1S=SUB DEM-LOC river-DEF.SG-LOC swim-PERF-1S
When I was not so old, I loved to to swim in that very river.

Jagallasayyaśāmi, zokarīm kostrāyovyū
strong-SUBLAT-PTCPL.FUT.PASS-ATHEM-DEF-INSTR quit-PTCPL.PRES.ACT-DAT decide-PERF-3S
About to lose all of his strength, he decided to quit
(Lit. "With being about to become the least strong, he decided to quit")

Fun Fact: The Pazmat root for "decide", kostro-, literally means "think-grab"

Kṛnāye ātacithásamāva, kṛnāt idderāṣ, jhāye matarāva na wo źāthrā sīnsrāya āttūṣ yū, yājovyī.
2S.DAT wealthy-EQUA-PTCPL.FUT.ACT-ATHEM-DEF.SG-LOC 2S.GEN meaning-DEF.SG-LOC 1S.DAT speak-PTCPL.PRES.ACT-ATHEM-DEF.SG-LOC=SUB money-DEF.SG-NOM only happiness-DEF.SG-ACC give.INFIN-ACC NEG.AOR-3S understand-PERF-1S
After becoming as wealthy as you, I realized what you had meant when you told me that money alone does not bring happiness

Participles derived from verbs can also take comparative markers. In these cases, the markers often indicate comparison (no alteration of the participle marker): marjhṛtītā "(I) worked more"; śrayaras- "working less". However, they often refer to the intensity of an action, in which case they are in the instrumental for overall intensity, or the locative for duration: marjhṛtītāmi "(I) worked a lot" (I was working intensely); marjhṛtītāva "I worked a lot" (I was working for a long time; the intensity was irrelevant). The translation will depend on context; the comparative might mean "really hard", "a ton", "for a long time", etc, while the superlative might be "[verb] as hard as possible" or "the hardest/strongest/fastest/etc."

Note that in this usage, the participle must agree with the subject of its action, even if it is unstated. "I will fight as hard as I can" (which use the superlative) is sepaśamallītāmi, whereas "the veteran (anpusasī) will fight as hard as they can" is sepaśamallītasṛna.


This concludes the section on comparison.

//////////////

A Minor Note on Adverbs:

I have decided that using adjectives adverbially can now use the instrumental as opposed to the dative. The idea is thus: "I ran with quick(ness)" > "I ran quickly". This is the preferred method for the Eastern prestige dialect; and note that the ending used here is the pronominal -am. In the Western dialect, it's common to use the locative instead (e.g for "I drunkenly stumbled", easterners say kajīram dhananvyī; westerners say kajīrav dhananvyī), and it's one of the most salient traits of a "western bumpkin" in popular media, much like how in American media "ain't" and droppin' the -ng on ya' gerunds marks a country southerner.

The use of the privative/ablocative clarifies that you are not doing the action in the manner of the adverb. To better clarify than that horrid sentence: kajīram mēdhavyū is "He was driving drunk", whereas kajīrasi mēdhavyū is "He was driving, but not drunkenly. This can be used to rebuff someone's statement, and another adjective (uninflected) clarifies what really happened:

Tanterā: Ṣṛdirū mētavyū'n pravṛś kajīrav madhiruf'! Vanīm?! Dā'tha!
("Ṣṛdiru said you was drivin' drunk last night! Seriously?! Don't do that!")

Kararā: M-mu, kajīrasa...dhānēmallas? Van'. Dṛk kajerā yī.
("W-well, not drunk...a teeny bit tipsy? sure. But I'm not an alcoholic.")

Regardless of this change, the adverbial usage of the dative lives on in fossilized adverbs and other constructions. Also, this change applies to comparitive adjectives: vṛkawītam "very boldly", nucītasi "not very quickly", etc.

Redesigned -ir and -er Stem Nouns

The -ir and -er stem nouns have undergone major changes; in the former's case, the affix -ir now never actually appears in the words of the class, though they will retain their name as a historical relic. These two noun classes now use a new set of endings: they are called the 2nd Declension, but are directly derived from the 3rd declension endings; they are effectively the same except for the loss of final phonemes in a few endings. They can be viewed as a bizarre offshoot of the 3rd declension. The endings are:

ACC: -ṣ
DAT: -t
LOC: -m
GEN: -ba
INSTR: -na
ABLOC: -sa
PRIV: -si

Note: Do not confuse the -t and -m endings with the same endings in the pronomial inflection. Here, they indicate Dative and Locative respectively, and derive from the 3rd declensions endings for the same cases of -at and -am. In the pronomial endings, -t is for the Genitive and comes from the 1st Declension -tṛ; -m is for the Instrumental and comes from the same declension's -mi; the actual pronomial Dative and Locative endings are -ye and -v, from the 1st declension -yīm and -va.

I'll start with the -ir stems. They are relatively easy to learn. In the indefinite, they behave like -er stems, as before, having the affix -ū-, though now they have the second-declension endings; the indefinite plural is slightly trickier: it uses the historical -vo plural collective-turned-plural marker, but only in the cases past the genitive (and the nominative) does this show up as -vo. In the three cases before (ACC/DAT/LOC), the -v- has assimilated to the ending, geminating it. In the definite, these nouns act like ablauting suffix nouns, where the historical stress always falls on the definite article, which is -ā- like the ablauting suffix nouns. Because of this, they have the distinctive affix of -erā- in the definite singular. Yup: in an intense twist of irony, the -ir- stems not only don't have -ir- anywhere in their declension, but have, of all things, -er, which the -er stems themselves do not have! Moving on, the plural suffixes -ī to the -er suffix like an athematic.

To demonstrate, here is the noun madherā in all of its forms. madherā comes from madh- "to lead", and means "driver" (madh- can also mean "to drive").

INDEF.SG: madhū madhūṣ madhūt madhūm madhūba madhūna madhūsa madhūsi
INDEF.PL: madhūvo madhūṣṣo madhūtto madhūmmo madhūbavo madhūnavo madhūsavo madhūsivo

DEF.SG: madherā madherāṣ madherāt madherām madherāba madherāna madherāsa madherāsi
DEF.PL: madherī madherīṣ madherīt madherīm madherība madherīna madherīsa madherīsi

The standard method of deriving adjectives from these nouns is lengthening the affix to -īr- (one of the few times -īr- ever shows up in these nouns) and leaving it at that: madhīr- "of or relating to drivers or driving; automotive". Diminutives are similar to -er stems, with lengthening of the suffix to -īr-, but -as- is suffixed like the ablauting suffix nouns and athematics.

Some more examples of -īr- stem nouns; they often denotes either actors, or one who creates something related to the action:

kajerā "heavy drinker, alcoholic" (kaj- "to drink"; kajīr- "extremely drunk/inebriated"; kajīras "someone with a drinking problem, who isn't a full-blown alcoholic")
nucerā "stimulant" (nuc- "quick, fast"; nucīr- "stimulating, exciting"; nucīras- "'pick-me-up' (sl.)")
varterā "cow" (vṛt- "milk, extract"; vartīr- "bovine")

-īr- stems also have the merit of being a somewhat common way of deriving nouns from causative roots; in these cases, they almost always form agent nouns, compared to the athematics and -e stem nouns which form action nouns:

nuc- "quick" > nūcay- "accelerate" > nūcayerā "accelerator, gas pedal, throttle" (nūcēṣrasī "acceleration")
di- "be unneeded" > daway- "make obsolete/useless/unnecessary (irreg. formation) > dawayerā "the newest model/product in a line" (lit. "that which makes (the previous model) obsolete"); cf. dawēṣrasī "obsolescence; outdated-ness"
triṣ- "hot" > trūṣay- "make hot, heat up, raise the stakes" > trūṣayerā "heater, challenger"

The -īr- stems have gained their current forms after many centuries of change. Originally they were much different; they used the 3rd-declension endings directly, for instance, meaning that, e.g, "for the driver" was madherāyat; in addition, they truly acted like ablauting suffix nouns, giving them definite nominatives of madhīro (sg.) and madhīre (pl.) (this is why they gained the name "-īr- stems". However, they contracted their endings a few hundred years ago, causing the DAT and LOC endings to drop their vowels; the GEN and ACC endings lose of final phonemes is unexplained, however. The former could have come from making it better resemble the INSTR, ABLOC, and PRIV endings, but then one would expect the same thing in the 3rd-declension nouns. The latter may be analogy from the pronomial endings, but those endings have barely influenced anything, the same is not found in the 3rd declension nouns, and the more likely pronomial influence would have just been taking the whole set or taking the dative and locative endings to prevent any confusion between the two classes. Regardless soon afterwords the anomalous definite nominative endings were brought in line. These innovations then spread to the related -er stems.

-er stems are much like this and don't actually have many changes besides taking on the new endings and now using -urrū- for the definite plural: vagirūt "for the text", vagurrūt "for the texts".

I am utterly incapable of deciding if the plural morpheme should be -errū-, -arrū-, or -urrū-. The second nearly won but this language has enough <a>, and a preponderance of <a> is already the job of the -ar stems. In the end, I want to use the -er stems more, as they are pathetically under-represented despite being one of the first classes ever made for the language. I just never jived with their appearance and phonetics.

Adjectives are now formed from -er stems with ūr- (vagūr- "textual").

Still undecided on all of this. These nouns are going to be the death of me. But it's good enough for now.

I am seriously debating getting rid of ALL -er stem nouns outside of names and just making everything -ir stems. But that's a pretty drastic idea, don't you think? I like the -urrū- of the -er stems but otherwise they drive me insane.
Nūdenku waga honji ma naku honyasi ne ika-ika ichamase!
female-appearance=despite boy-voice=PAT hold boy-youth=TOP very be.cute-3PL
Honyasi zō honyasi ma naidasu.
boy-youth=AGT boy-youth=PAT love.romantically-3S

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Re: Pazmat mk.II (NP: Comparison, Reworked -ir/er stems)

Post by loglorn » 29 Feb 2016 23:39

I have to say this is impressive. I really like how much creativity you put into how morphemes interact and what happens to the semantics, are there are usually a naughty bunch of them per word. It's mostly quite interesting and non-obvious.

Also, one simply can't dislike this gloss: strong-SUBLAT-PTCPL.FUT.PASS-ATHEM-DEF-INSTR. Many pretty, Much morphemes.
Kṛnāye ātacithásamāva, kṛnāt idderāṣ, jhāye matarāva na wo źāthrā sīnsrāya āttūṣ yū, yājovyī.
2S.DAT wealthy-EQUA-PTCPL.FUT.ACT-ATHEM-DEF.SG-LOC 2S.GEN meaning-DEF.SG-LOC 1S.DAT speak-PTCPL.PRES.ACT-ATHEM-DEF.SG-LOC=SUB money-DEF.SG-NOM only happiness-DEF.SG-ACC give.INFIN-ACC NEG.AOR-3S understand-PERF-1S
After becoming as wealthy as you, I realized what you had meant when you told me that money alone does not bring happiness
You being able to translate this shows how you've accomplished waaay more than i have in language complexity. It's rather awesome actually.

Sorry for not having much more content than "OMG it's awesome"
Diachronic Conlanging is the path to happiness, given time. [;)]

Gigxkpoyan Languages: CHÍFJAEŚÍ RETLA TLAPTHUV DÄLDLEN CJUŚËKNJU ṢATT

Other langs: Søsøzatli Kamëzet

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Re: Pazmat mk.II (NP: Diminutives)

Post by Thrice Xandvii » 01 Mar 2016 06:19

Chagen wrote:The Diminutive

This is a small post [...]
I see what you did there... [:)]
Image

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Re: Pazmat mk.II (NP: Comparison, Reworked -ir/er stems)

Post by Chagen » 01 Mar 2016 19:15

loglorn wrote:I have to say this is impressive. I really like how much creativity you put into how morphemes interact and what happens to the semantics, are there are usually a naughty bunch of them per word. It's mostly quite interesting and non-obvious.
Yes, that is one of the most fun things about Pazmat. I love how it has a ton of morphemes and many of them can be combined for interesting and unique connotations and semantics. It's very fun to come up with these combinations; for instance, how participle and comparative endings can combine to pack tons of meaning in a small space.
Also, one simply can't dislike this gloss: strong-SUBLAT-PTCPL.FUT.PASS-ATHEM-DEF-INSTR. Many pretty, Much morphemes.
What's even more impressive is that it's not a clusterfuck of consonants and awkwardly shoved together morphemes! I like that Pazmat's morphemes flow into each other so well.
Kṛnāye ātacithásamāva, kṛnāt idderāṣ, jhāye matarāva na wo źāthrā sīnsrāya āttūṣ yū, yājovyī.
2S.DAT wealthy-EQUA-PTCPL.FUT.ACT-ATHEM-DEF.SG-LOC 2S.GEN meaning-DEF.SG-LOC 1S.DAT speak-PTCPL.PRES.ACT-ATHEM-DEF.SG-LOC=SUB money-DEF.SG-NOM only happiness-DEF.SG-ACC give.INFIN-ACC NEG.AOR-3S understand-PERF-1S
After becoming as wealthy as you, I realized what you had meant when you told me that money alone does not bring happiness
You being able to translate this shows how you've accomplished waaay more than i have in language complexity. It's rather awesome actually.
Yes, sometimes I forget just how far Pazmat has come. My main difficulties are maintaining the lexicon, really. There are so many words Pazmat needs and I don't really keep a dictionary--in my hiatus I've forgotten many words...
Sorry for not having much more content than "OMG it's awesome"
No worries! While endless praise can stifle someone, hearing praise is still great to hear.

Thrice: Haha, I didn't even notice that!
Nūdenku waga honji ma naku honyasi ne ika-ika ichamase!
female-appearance=despite boy-voice=PAT hold boy-youth=TOP very be.cute-3PL
Honyasi zō honyasi ma naidasu.
boy-youth=AGT boy-youth=PAT love.romantically-3S

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Re: Pazmat mk.II (NP: Roadmap for future posts)

Post by Chagen » 19 Oct 2016 04:07

The Current State of Pazmat

This is not, mostly, a post on new things in Pazmat. Instead, it's a reminder by me that this language still exists, and that I am still working on it.

I stopped working on Pazmat extensively over half a year ago. There are various reasons for this, such as simply growing tired of the language (not bored--I still love Pazmat dearly, but I worked on pretty much nothing but it for nearly two years. I had grown as a conlanger and wished to explore other ideas, such as infixes and heavy morphophonology in Kirroŋa. I started working on writing more and tried to enjoy more things like video games, anime, etc.

However, one major reason, I think, is how much of a complete and utter mess this topic is. Half of the statements in this topic are invalidated by later posts. There are also many which were said once, promptly forgotten, and utterly ignored. For instance, in one post here I said that the Present Desiderative was changed to -ar (so matarī "I want to speak"). I forgot about this completely until I reread the thread several months after this was written--I was still using the old marker of -ara like nothing had changed. I had said that I would revive the -eqh and consonant stems--this never happened. Other elements have always bugged me, yet remain unchanged. This topic is a mess.

No more.

I am going through Pazmat right now and renovating things. I am not wholesale throwing stuff out, but more "touching up" things--a replaced suffix here, a slightly altered nominal paradigm there, and so on. I am going to detail these changes starting with the nouns and phonology ablaut in a series of posts, and afterwards I will continue working on things left abandoned, such as the Conditional (if I can find my notes on it...) and the overall syntax for conditional statements and the new Potential.

I would honestly prefer to make a new thread here for this, but I'm not sure if the mods would like this. Regardless, expect a new post...soon. I am working on a story right now, I want to eventually return to Kirroŋa, and I should also get a basic Haeku Rath grammar down. I have a lot of stuff to deal with, so please be a little patient.

However, there are a minority of new things that I want to talk about. Namely, the 2nd-conjugation 2S suffix is now , and not -ot. Thus, kṇsō "you die". This sounds nice, and fits with the other singular suffixes for this conjugation being long vowels: kṇsī "I die", kṇsū "he/she/it dies". This is not the only suffix that will change (though I am trying to remain conservative).

Also, <ṃ> does not exist as a phoneme anymore, I cannot get it to work right and it sounds ugly next to most sounds...well, perhaps I will not get rid of it, but I will limit its appearances to appearing word-finally or next to labial consonants.

I want to create some rules for when labial consonants force syllabics to expand to uC, or just make it root-dependent, but I can't come up with anything that satisfies me. I have an idea to make it umlaut-based; they expand to uC or aC depending on what vowel follows the ablauting root, but who knows. I should just make them invariably do it, but I like things like vṛdh- > vardh- too much. Besides that, I also am thinking of making a new Vr class alongside the ar-roots and er-roots. If I were crazy I'd do it for EVERY Vr-root but that's a little much. In all honesty this probably wont happen--I don't want to introduce any new vowels to Pazmat, and making any new Vr-roots use existed vowels clutters the system too much. We already have things like /i/ and /u/ both ablauting to /u:/ in the Overlong conjugation.

Pazmat will gain one or two new phonemes with these changes. They will all be consonants. Also, the orthography will change very slightly, as in the diphthongs are now written differently (and are now written consistently for that matter). The only exception is <eu> which is now <ō>, as that phoneme was kind of rare anyway (so "you begin to defend" is now wōsubbō).

I should stress that Pazmat after these changes is still going to be 90% the same language (and that's pushing it, it's really more like 95% the same). It will look the same. Its nouns will still have eight cases with two numbers and definiteness states. Its verbs are still based off of ablauting the root, suffixing special markers, and then adding personal endings, along with six participles and infinitives (though I am definitely going to change some of the infinitive and participle endings).

With that said, it's funny how different Pazmat is from its influences, yet how similar it also is. It was designed as my experiment with Proto-Indo-European style ablaut, with an aesthetic inspired by Sanskrit mostly with some very minor Arabic influence (namely /q/). In the end...Pazmat looks nothing like Sanskrit or Arabic. The orthography shares a great deal of commonality with Sanskrit, but the end result is entirely its own thing. In grammar, Pazmat adheres much more closely to its PIE influence, with its large case inventory, use of ablauting suffixes, and so on, but even then with suffixed articles, no dual, and a preference for agglutinative morphology, it carves its own niche. I am definitely glad that it has ended up like this--I love Sanskrit, but making a straight-up clone would have been quite boring. In addition, this already heavy-distance means I can introduce some more slight Sanskrit influence at my leisure, without coming off as a complete rip-off.

One such example of this is that I am thinking of having <w> become <v> when it comes from an <au> diphthong breaking before a vowel. Therefore, nāvubbī "I am beginning to guard", from nau-ubb-ī and thāvina "I am seeing". Original cases of /w/ do not experience this: śtēwatha "she seethes in anger", from śtēw-a-tha. This would be a sort of fortition. However, /w/ in all cases would also become /v/ before resonants (except for /w/ and /v/); before other consonants (and the two previous exceptions) it merges with the following consonant. This is why the word "seething anger, internal rage" is śtōtū: the word is underlyingly śtēw-t-ū > śtēwtū, and as said before, /ew/ > /o:/, thus stōtū.

See you all later. By the end of the week I should have a post on ablaut and nouns.
Nūdenku waga honji ma naku honyasi ne ika-ika ichamase!
female-appearance=despite boy-voice=PAT hold boy-youth=TOP very be.cute-3PL
Honyasi zō honyasi ma naidasu.
boy-youth=AGT boy-youth=PAT love.romantically-3S

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Re: Pazmat mk.II (NP: Roadmap for future posts)

Post by Chagen » 25 Sep 2018 20:36

Hey y'all. I ain't dead. Holy crackers!

Yeah, depression and shit tore a hole right through me. Pazmat will never die though. I swear it will not. However, in my long absence there are a few things I want to change and tweak. I'm always changing and tweaking Pazmat! Keeping it the same beautiful language it always was, is, and will be, however, is a more tricky thing. This is not a big detailed post on the changes. It's more an overview on changes I have already made or want to make but am not sure on.

One of the most difficult things about changing Pazmat is keeping it naturalistic. It's tempting to pile n morphological categories and morphemes until the entire language suffocates under its complexity. Not that complexity is a bad thing--but Pazmat has a very clear aesthetic going on, in that it's Sanskrit mixed with dashes of PIE and Arabic and turned into this strange beast unlike all three yet clearly derived from them. Well, I'm rambling.

Phonology:

--Pazmat's lone /x/ now has a companion /ɣ/. It is spelled <gh>, meaning that /bh/ is the only <Ch> Sanskrit...-tism(?) that doesn't exist in the language yet. Probably never will, since I can't imagine a phoneme that it would be useful for. As of now it exists in exactly one root: nagh- "to weave", giving us the words nēgharā "tailor, seamstress, weaver" and ṣūnnaghā "spider", derived from a combination of that root and the Long grade of ṣerg- "white"--"the one who weaves white (webs)"

--I apparently made some rules about <au> becoming <ō> before non-rhotic approximants. I don't remember these until I saw them in a search a few minutes ago. But it kinda makes sense. However, I think I can whip up some nicer rules in a jiffy here:

au + yC > ōşC
au + wC > āvuC

au + yV > ōyV
au + wV > āvC

ay + yC > ayīC
ay +wC > ayūC

ay + yV > ayyV
ay+ wV > ayūC

(<ey> acts the same way as <ay>, just swap the <a>'s for <e>'s, duh)

I'm not even sure how common these situations are. I literally cannot think of an instance where *auwC would even happen...then again, in-universe, Pazmat's
...that's not pretty. Needs work. Oh well. NEXT.

--I've always wanted some form of Schwebeablaut in Pazmat somewhere (i.e situations where a Cṛ- Long grade is CrV-, not the usual CVr-), but I don't know where to put it. I don't want it to be randomly decided per root both because I'm lazy and because Pazmat abhors random irregularity (codified irregularity on the other hand...). However, I've been thinking of allowing non-rhotic approximant-final roots such as, say, maw- or kṛy- into the language. In that case, it only makes sense that, say, kṛy-'s long grade could be krīy-! But it could b kary-...well, the latter does provide some troubles. I think. Assuming the root means "to sway", is krīyṛtha or karyṛtha better for "it is swaying"? krīyṛvyū or karyṛvyū "it (has) swayed"?

Nominals:

--I apparently added a Proximative in -(y)os: Kaddza, karos ṣūnnaghā yē! "Holy fuck there's a spider next to you!" I don't remember doing this, but I like it. It also provides another alternative for "like" along GEN+dū so that neyṣrāyos or neyṣrātṛ dū are "like a serpent". And it can serve as an alternate comitative alongside the Locative, so that "I came with (my) brother" is either of radisāyos īyevyī or radisāva īyevyī. Fun!

Oh and I guess it's also useful for participles? Perhaps it can have a meaning of "along with doing X, I also blahblahblah":

tōkosāya būntayorāyos nama avrisāya noydhuvyī
"I tended to my garden, and fed my cat as well"

But time will tell. It's probably staying though. NO MORE CASES GODDAMMIT. Other more complex forms of Locatives will be handled with...something. I'm thinking locative demonstratives, an idea I fleshed out years ago and then lost the papers to completely. Fun! Humorously enough, one of them was sub- but didn't mean "below", rather something else, and I only realized the similarity to the Latin preposition like literally right this instant. Derp.

--Something has to be done about second-declension nouns but holy fuck if I know what. Thinking about them makes my brain hurt. NEXT.

Verbals:

--The post-consonantal second person singular is now , not -ot. Fits well with 1S and 3S , doesn't it? I actually love -Vt morphemes (damn you Indo-European languages for killing the sexy PIE Ablative!), but idk, I just wasn't feeling -ot.

--The person endings will be getting a minor tweak. Mostly tidying up. They're going to remain very similar, calm your butts.

--I've been thinking of giving Pazmat a sort of stem system, split into three basic kinds of stems:

Base stems are the raw citation form of the verbal root, from which everything else is derived.

Verbal stems are stems derived from the raw root. They act as verbs, and can take deverbals. The only such stems right now are the causative -ay- and passive -ib-.

Deverbal stems are only used to make derbals such as gerunds, participles, and infinitives. They are overwhelmingly modal stems, such as the Desiderative -urayy-. which allows formations such as: sav- "visit" > savurayy- "wanting to visit" > savurayyṛt- "having wanted to visit..."

Stems are always derived in the base order of Base > Verbal > Deverbal. Therefore, causative + desiderative is always -ayurayy- and NOT *-urayyay-: būrstayurayyṛtāmi "having wanted to make (her) feel..."

As I said up above, I can't get too wild with this. So there probably will not be terribly too many stems. There will definitely be a Desiderative one, though, as well as a few other modal deverbal stems.

--Holy fuck I need to finish conditionals.

////////

I can't think of much else, but I really want to just let everyone know I'M NOT DEAD. That is all, really.
Nūdenku waga honji ma naku honyasi ne ika-ika ichamase!
female-appearance=despite boy-voice=PAT hold boy-youth=TOP very be.cute-3PL
Honyasi zō honyasi ma naidasu.
boy-youth=AGT boy-youth=PAT love.romantically-3S

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Lambuzhao
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Joined: 13 May 2012 02:57

Re: Pazmat mk.II (NP: Roadmap for future posts)

Post by Lambuzhao » 25 Sep 2018 21:18

I really want to just let everyone know I'M NOT DEAD. That is all, really.
That's A LOT, dear Chagen! Great you hear from you again! :mrgreen:
… holy fuck…
Holy fuck, indeed. [>:)]
I'm thinking locative demonstratives, an idea I fleshed out years ago and then lost the papers to completely. Fun!
I hate that kind of «fun», but I've been there, and I can surely sympathize. [:S] Glad to see you are taking this (and a lot more behind the scenes) in stride. Just keep on keepin' on, Chacha! [;)]
NO MORE CASES GODDAMMIT.
UR a brave one, Chagen. [O.O]
Yeah, depression and shit tore a hole right through me. Pazmat will never die though. I swear it will not.
If conlanging can be the gossamer thread which leads you out of the Kleinbottle-Conch of Depression's manxsome hug, may Pazmat never die, and may it take you along for the sempiternal ride! I believe in conlangs qua therapy. It's the order and beauty we find in it that saves us, when our lives go kablewwy.
:wat:
Holy Crackers!
Quite. Holy Ritz-Bitz, even!!! [:P]
Well, I'm rambling.
2000s response: Get down with yer bad self!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZbkF-15ObM

1990s response: Reelin' with the feeling; don't stop! continue!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?reload=9&v=Mr_uHJPUlO8

1970s response: Ramble On!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EAmIuTI4wRg


Whatever my answer, glad U crossed the Delta and made it back to us!

[:D]
~LAM
:mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

Jhā ṇpasarāva, dhāvyī na dāvāv frethrāva źīvevyī.
[+1]

And I loved to swim in that river, which is glossopoeia, even when I was not too younger, as well. [;)]

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kiwikami
roman
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Posts: 1345
Joined: 26 May 2012 17:24
Location: the first star to the right and straight on 'till mid-afternoon

Re: Pazmat mk.II (NP: Roadmap for future posts)

Post by kiwikami » 25 Sep 2018 21:33

Welcome back, Chagen! [:D] Punch depression in the face.
Glad to see Pazmat in play again - love a good proximative.
Edit: Substituted a string instrument for a French interjection.

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