What did you accomplish today?

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Sḿtuval
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Re: What did you accomplish today?

Post by Sḿtuval » 08 Aug 2016 10:55

For the past month or two I've been wasting my time playing video games and watching YouTube. That said, I did manage to get some stuff done over the past week.

I've been working on a new-ish language family, which I actually hadn't given much attention recently until today, when I finalized some major sound changes. The language family is called Gaskan but it's only a temporary name until I come up with something better.

Gaskan (or Old Gaskan, if you prefer) had the vowels /a e i o~u/ as well as the diphthongs /aj ja oj/. Here's how one branch (and currently the only branch) changed them up.

Gaskan /a e i o~u aj ja oj/
Insular Gaskan /a ə i u i: i: u:/
Arvetan /á a i u í í ú/

I don't usually have phonemic tone like this in my conlangs (even ridiculously simple systems like this), but I figured since the whole project was meant to get out of my comfort zone, why not. I've also done some other sound changes but they're relatively boring in my opinion. The only one worth mentioning is /kp/ > /tp/ > /t̼/. Both the kp and tp should be read as having tie bars, being distinct from actual /kp/ and /tp/.

One of the major issues I still have is trying to get away from the Indo-Europeanness my brain is so used to (mainly grammatically). It's not a bad thing, but as I said before I really want to do something different with this family.
I have absolutely no idea what I'm doing.

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k1234567890y
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Re: What did you accomplish today?

Post by k1234567890y » 08 Aug 2016 11:40

Sḿtuval wrote:For the past month or two I've been wasting my time playing video games and watching YouTube. That said, I did manage to get some stuff done over the past week.
maybe video games and youtube clips can also bring you some ideas about conlanging and worldbuilding?
Sḿtuval wrote: I've been working on a new-ish language family, which I actually hadn't given much attention recently until today, when I finalized some major sound changes. The language family is called Gaskan but it's only a temporary name until I come up with something better.

Gaskan (or Old Gaskan, if you prefer) had the vowels /a e i o~u/ as well as the diphthongs /aj ja oj/. Here's how one branch (and currently the only branch) changed them up.

Gaskan /a e i o~u aj ja oj/
Insular Gaskan /a ə i u i: i: u:/
Arvetan /á a i u í í ú/

I don't usually have phonemic tone like this in my conlangs (even ridiculously simple systems like this), but I figured since the whole project was meant to get out of my comfort zone, why not. I've also done some other sound changes but they're relatively boring in my opinion. The only one worth mentioning is /kp/ > /tp/ > /t̼/. Both the kp and tp should be read as having tie bars, being distinct from actual /kp/ and /tp/.
nice (: maybe I should also get out of my conlang confort zones...
Sḿtuval wrote: One of the major issues I still have is trying to get away from the Indo-Europeanness my brain is so used to (mainly grammatically). It's not a bad thing, but as I said before I really want to do something different with this family.
morphologically, you can try to make a completely isolating language or a polysynthetic head-marking language?

syntactically, you can try the combination of postposition+SOV word order+prenominal relative clauses with invariant relativizers or no relativizers at all(though the SOV+postposition combination might have becoming more and more cliched among my languages...), you can also try a internally-headed relative clause?
I prefer to not be referred to with masculine pronouns and nouns such as “he/him/his”.

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Re: What did you accomplish today?

Post by DesEsseintes » 09 Aug 2016 10:51

Today I read about Avar and discovered that one of the distinguishing features of fortis affricates in that language is lengthening of the fricative release. This is of no consequence to me, but

shimobaatar, check it out!^
(You probably already know all about it)

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Re: What did you accomplish today?

Post by alynnidalar » 09 Aug 2016 20:11

Chagen wrote:So I just came up with a cool little thing for Kirroŋa and since no one appears to read the thread on the language I'm throwing it in a post here.
This is all very neat.

As for me, I haven't done anything major... just bits and pieces of vocabulary for Old/Modern Azen and some minor Tirina tweaks. I decided to redo the imperative mood a bit. Now instead of consisting of the appropriate gender marking + fis + (the rest of the verb) stuck together like building blocks, it's a fusional prefix: mis- for animate, fis- for inanimate. (however, seeing as I already sang a Tirina song using the old form, I'm going to claim that's a form used in the Sakaran dialect... that way I don't have to declare the song ungrammatical! [:D])

Misdana!
AN.IMP-throw
Throw (it)!

However, I need to consider ways the inanimate imperative could be used, as you don't typically command inanimate objects.

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Re: What did you accomplish today?

Post by Frislander » 09 Aug 2016 21:00

I figured out how the Kaita moiety system works and how it relates to the Crow kinship system.

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Re: What did you accomplish today?

Post by DesEsseintes » 10 Aug 2016 05:59

I am again considering a gender system for Híí, partly because I've recently been teaching myself Oneida, and I've come up with something I'm reasonably satisfied with.

There are four genders/noun classes in Híí. There is a basic animate/inanimate distinction. Animate nouns are further divided into three distinct genders: masculine, feminine, and zoic.

The masculine is only used to refer to males that have formally come of age in Híí society, most commonly when they start formal hunter-warrior training. Female warriors are also referred to in the masculine when their warrior status is being emphasised, though in practice this is largely restricted to rituals. Unlike the other two animate genders, the masculine is never used for inanimate referents.

The feminine is used to refer to:
- female persons of all ages
- large flying birds
- projectile weapons, such as arrows and spears

The zoic is used to refer to all animate nouns that fail to qualify for masculine or feminine gender. This includes:
- land animals and flightless birds
- natural forces
- knives, swords
- male children
- male slaves and other 'males of no status'
- males from societies other than the tribal societies of the plains

The inanimate is used for inanimate referents that are not considered zoic or feminine.

I want to slowly expand the categories of nouns with inanimate referents that nevertheless get assigned feminine or zoic gender, "slowly" being the operative word here in order to avoid just copying Algonquian.

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Re: What did you accomplish today?

Post by Sḿtuval » 10 Aug 2016 08:08

Today I actually did something productive. I'm part of a collaborative language family called Argeyazic and work on the Hemeshi branch as do most of the others since the other branch is closed off to @yrieixgroulx, creator of the conlang this family was based on. I'm in charge of the sound changes from Proto-Argeyazic to Old Hemeshi, and although I'm still far from done, I managed to not waste my time and add some changes. If you decide to look at the Hemeshi languages' pages on CWS, be warned that all of it is outdated due to early ideas being scrapped.

These include:
• the voicing of /p t k/ except next to a voiceless phoneme (and possibly other exceptions)
• a vowel harmony system arising from the original vowels /ɒ æ e i o u/, in which all vowels in a word are either tense /ɑ i u/ or lax /æ e o/
• a type of umlaut that results in some vowels becoming identical to the preceding vowel but leaving behind a "trace" coarticulation for nearby consonants (e.g. /evɒ/ > /evæ/ > /evˀe/), with the "a", "i", and "u" vowel categories corresponding to glottalization, palatalization, and labio-velarization (I don't remember whose idea this was based off)
• any vowels not changed by this umlaut will still leave the "trace" on any nearby consonants (e.g. /galneq/ > /ɣalniχ/ > /ɣˀalˀnʲiχʲ/

Proto-Argeyazic nouns are either physical or nonphysical, and in addition to this had either a masculine, feminine, or neuter gender (this was decided by @yrieixgroulx). Each combination had a thematic vowel as shown in this article, but due to the vowel harmony in Old Hemeshi, the masculine and neuter physical as well as the masculine and feminine nonphysical have merged, leaving a (for lack of a better word) "skewed" noun class system. The feminine physical no longer has a thematic vowel due to schwa a being deleted (or changed if I follow through with a couple ideas) in most cases.

There are definitely more changes, but none that truly stand out to me. Maybe I'm wrong about how interesting you may find them. I don't know. [:P]
I have absolutely no idea what I'm doing.

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Re: What did you accomplish today?

Post by DesEsseintes » 11 Aug 2016 20:11

I started getting ideas for Arawɨṭṭara, my latest conlang, which is probably going to get a new name soon for reasons I'm not going to elaborate on here. The phonology is falling into place and I love the possibilities it entails. Hopefully, I'll be able to share stuff soon, cos I'm so bored of not conlanging vigorously.

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Re: What did you accomplish today?

Post by shimobaatar » 14 Aug 2016 03:15

Egerius wrote:I started (re-)creating Taèna in SimCity 4 Deluxe. If I'll like the outcome, the region in the game will be the basis of Rodentèrra's first continent.
August 3, 2016: I finished a good deal of the reply letter to elemtilas.
It's taking me so long because it's bilingual and the Wínlandisc part is underdeveloped. [:$]
Good luck on both projects!

Chagen wrote:So I just came up with a cool little thing for Kirroŋa and since no one appears to read the thread on the language I'm throwing it in a post here.
Spoiler:
The adverb puru acts as an intensifier. However, it has the special suffixed form -ppu/appu which specifically means "too" or more than enough":

dakimý "chilly, cold"
dakimappu "too cold"

daro "happy"
dorappu "too happy".

What makes this really interesting, IMO, is that this is actually a word which can take possessive suffixes, meaning "too X for [possessive suffix]. Unusually, the infixation point for -appu is -appu<> (one would expect -a<>ppu; this is because the actual suffix is -ppu(ru), the /a/ is just a linking morpheme like -o- in "speedometer":

yo dorappuno "He's too happy for me"

dohhom amému? "Dakimappu"? Dakimappuummi, eladat? Tarare ø witonidde! "You jokin'? "Too cold"? Too cold for whom, a little boy? Shut up and get back to work!"

There is also an even more intensive version of this, -(a)ppudda, which means "way too X" and is often kind of vulgar. For instance, if you tasted a spicy (hommý) dish and it was too much for you, hommappuno! is "woah, too much for me!" but hommappuddano! is more like "Christ, that's way too spicy!"

Then there is the flat-out expletive -ddaŋ/-addaŋ: hommaddanoŋ! "That's way too fucking spicy!" or "Fuck, that's spicy as hell" or "Holy shit, that's spicy as fuck!"

In the second sentence you can also see a new verbal aspect, -unid, which means "go back to [verb]", "return to [verb]", or "resume [verb]'ing". I'm not sure what it's name should be: "Resumptive"? "Regressive"? "Repetitive"? I'm starting to have to browse through my Latin dictionary to derive ad-hoc names for these unusual categories.

I'm wondering if this aspect could work with the -uwo Continuative. Not sure what that would exactly mean, though: "return to continuing to [verb]"?

I plan to do this with more stuff as well: hommaṭṭino "just spicy enough for me" (i.e it's the perfect level of spiciness), hommonanom "not spicy enough for me".
I really love how this lanuage is turning out. I'm doing so many things I haven't tried before and they're so much fun. If I could compare Kirroŋa to Pazmat: Pazmat was me taking my knowlege and vastly expanding my skill, creating a language a hundred times more fleshed out than my previous ones, while Kirroŋa is me stretching my wings and going against type. Sometimes I worry that this language is too kitchen-sinky, but that's just me being stupidly paranoid for no reason.
I'm trying to read the thread, but there's a lot to read, and I don't have a lot of time.

All of this is really interesting! I'm glad you're enjoying yourself and liking how the language is coming along.

Ælfwine wrote:What have I accomplished today? Nothing.

I am having the hardest time deciding how far I want to take out palatalization in Varangian. So far, I have eight to ten different consonants palatalizing before four different front vowels and /j/, what I might do is just palatalize all before /j/ but only the velars before other front vowels. Would /i/ be acoustically similar to /j/? I don't know. Certainly /e/ and /E/ wouldn't be.
If I understand what I've heard and read correctly, /j/ is like the non-syllabic/consonantal version of /i/. Of course, the situation can be more complicated than that and can vary from language to language, but I'm fairly certain that's basically the situation.

kiwikami wrote:Welp. Mood is now officially marked on nouns in Alál. I'll need to rewrite a few examples before I make the next post in its thread. I like this solution better than the pure modal verb constructions I'd had, and it lets me use the benefactive more, but it's a bit of a pain to get used to. Ah, well. Time shall tell.
Sounds cool! Your thread is another one I want to make time to get caught up on.

Khemehekis wrote:Just a minor point today, but it governs correct singular/plural usage:
Spoiler:
"Zhit" (a connective meaning "for") normally takes a singular nominal as its object:

Hames oeas on en sharab zhit wakhavan.
that-PL trick-PL NEG PST bad for parakeet
Those tricks were not bad for parakeets.

BTW, diligent Kankonian students will recall that the usual word for "for" is ad. Zhit is used for contexts like "Your Kankonian isn't bad for a foreigner".

The other major words for "for" you need to know are spei (for an amount of time), mail (the opposite of against), and non. "Non" indicates a reason or charge:

Wan baizhizen non adekluoi.
3sg arrest-PSV-PST for arson
He was arrested for arson.

In fact, "non" is sometimes used where we'd use an attributive noun combination:

baizh non adekluoi
arrest for arson
arson arrest
Nice, this all looks very well thought-out!

Xing wrote:A brief little sketch:
Spoiler:
/p t ʧ k/ <p t kj k>
/m n ɲ ŋ/ <m n nj ng>
/l r/ <l r>
/w j/ <w j>
/i a u/ <i a u>

wara [waːɾə] – to see
warra [warːə] – to look
warana [waːɾ(a)nə] – to show
ninga [niːŋə] – to hear
ninnga [niŋːə] – to listen
ningana [niːŋ(a)nə] – to tell
japa [jaːbə] – to jump
aka [aːgə] – to go, to walk
akana [aːg(a)nə]– to lead
tunga [tuːŋə] – to say
tunnga [tuŋːə] – to talk, to speak
panka [paŋgə] – to take
kjirpa [ʧirbə] – to burn (intr.)
kjirpana [ʧirb(a)nə] – to burn (tr.)
wina [wiːnə] – to like
winna [winːə] – to love
mannja [maɲːə] – to make, to create

Verb paradigm:

Perfective:

warram [warːam] – I looked
warrat [warːat] – you (sg.) looked
warra [warːə] – he/she/it looked
warrakam [warːakam] – we looked
warrakat [warːakat] – you (pl.) looked
warraka [warːagə] – they looked

Imperfective:

warranim [warːanim] – I'm looking
warranit [warːanit] – You're looking
warran [warːan] – He/she/it's looking
warrankan [warːaŋgan] – We are looking
warrankat [warːaŋgat] – You're looking
warrang [warːaŋ] – They are looking
[+1]

felipesnark wrote: I have worked a bit on having various strategies for forming some derivations and inflections to create more variation in my conlang. The idea is also to create a bit more naturalism by having both productive and not productive strategies for some derivations.

For forming adverbs from adjectives, I have two productive suffixes: -au, which is a straight ADJ>ADV suffix and -zhoc which is the instrumental case of the abstract nominalization of the adjective (like "with quickness").

I also have two non-productive suffixes, used with a few set expressions and old basic adverbs: -u and -ni
nevú, norú, nujú here, there, over there
ledni/nevi thus, so, like this
Awesome, I particularly like the non-productive suffixes.

k1234567890y wrote:Lonmai Luna has 3,000 entities on CWS, the 3,000th entity is sawalit "wonderful"
Congratulations, that's "wonderful"! [;)]

Sḿtuval wrote: I've been working on a new-ish language family, which I actually hadn't given much attention recently until today, when I finalized some major sound changes. The language family is called Gaskan but it's only a temporary name until I come up with something better.

Gaskan (or Old Gaskan, if you prefer) had the vowels /a e i o~u/ as well as the diphthongs /aj ja oj/. Here's how one branch (and currently the only branch) changed them up.

Gaskan /a e i o~u aj ja oj/
Insular Gaskan /a ə i u i: i: u:/
Arvetan /á a i u í í ú/

I don't usually have phonemic tone like this in my conlangs (even ridiculously simple systems like this), but I figured since the whole project was meant to get out of my comfort zone, why not. I've also done some other sound changes but they're relatively boring in my opinion. The only one worth mentioning is /kp/ > /tp/ > /t̼/. Both the kp and tp should be read as having tie bars, being distinct from actual /kp/ and /tp/.

One of the major issues I still have is trying to get away from the Indo-Europeanness my brain is so used to (mainly grammatically). It's not a bad thing, but as I said before I really want to do something different with this family.
Looking good! Hooray for trying new things!

DesEsseintes wrote:Today I read about Avar and discovered that one of the distinguishing features of fortis affricates in that language is lengthening of the fricative release. This is of no consequence to me, but

shimobaatar, check it out!^
(You probably already know all about it)
Fascinating, thank you so much for sharing this with me! I actually hadn't read about this before now.

alynnidalar wrote: As for me, I haven't done anything major... just bits and pieces of vocabulary for Old/Modern Azen and some minor Tirina tweaks. I decided to redo the imperative mood a bit. Now instead of consisting of the appropriate gender marking + fis + (the rest of the verb) stuck together like building blocks, it's a fusional prefix: mis- for animate, fis- for inanimate. (however, seeing as I already sang a Tirina song using the old form, I'm going to claim that's a form used in the Sakaran dialect... that way I don't have to declare the song ungrammatical! [:D])

Misdana!
AN.IMP-throw
Throw (it)!

However, I need to consider ways the inanimate imperative could be used, as you don't typically command inanimate objects.
Excellent work!

Frislander wrote:I figured out how the Kaita moiety system works and how it relates to the Crow kinship system.
I need to get caught up on your thread, too!

DesEsseintes wrote:I am again considering a gender system for Híí, partly because I've recently been teaching myself Oneida, and I've come up with something I'm reasonably satisfied with.
Spoiler:
There are four genders/noun classes in Híí. There is a basic animate/inanimate distinction. Animate nouns are further divided into three distinct genders: masculine, feminine, and zoic.

The masculine is only used to refer to males that have formally come of age in Híí society, most commonly when they start formal hunter-warrior training. Female warriors are also referred to in the masculine when their warrior status is being emphasised, though in practice this is largely restricted to rituals. Unlike the other two animate genders, the masculine is never used for inanimate referents.

The feminine is used to refer to:
- female persons of all ages
- large flying birds
- projectile weapons, such as arrows and spears

The zoic is used to refer to all animate nouns that fail to qualify for masculine or feminine gender. This includes:
- land animals and flightless birds
- natural forces
- knives, swords
- male children
- male slaves and other 'males of no status'
- males from societies other than the tribal societies of the plains

The inanimate is used for inanimate referents that are not considered zoic or feminine.

I want to slowly expand the categories of nouns with inanimate referents that nevertheless get assigned feminine or zoic gender, "slowly" being the operative word here in order to avoid just copying Algonquian.
Well done, DesEsseintes! Good luck moving forward with this system.

Sḿtuval wrote:Today I actually did something productive. I'm part of a collaborative language family called Argeyazic and work on the Hemeshi branch as do most of the others since the other branch is closed off to @yrieixgroulx, creator of the conlang this family was based on. I'm in charge of the sound changes from Proto-Argeyazic to Old Hemeshi, and although I'm still far from done, I managed to not waste my time and add some changes. If you decide to look at the Hemeshi languages' pages on CWS, be warned that all of it is outdated due to early ideas being scrapped.
Spoiler:
These include:
• the voicing of /p t k/ except next to a voiceless phoneme (and possibly other exceptions)
• a vowel harmony system arising from the original vowels /ɒ æ e i o u/, in which all vowels in a word are either tense /ɑ i u/ or lax /æ e o/
• a type of umlaut that results in some vowels becoming identical to the preceding vowel but leaving behind a "trace" coarticulation for nearby consonants (e.g. /evɒ/ > /evæ/ > /evˀe/), with the "a", "i", and "u" vowel categories corresponding to glottalization, palatalization, and labio-velarization (I don't remember whose idea this was based off)
• any vowels not changed by this umlaut will still leave the "trace" on any nearby consonants (e.g. /galneq/ > /ɣalniχ/ > /ɣˀalˀnʲiχʲ/

Proto-Argeyazic nouns are either physical or nonphysical, and in addition to this had either a masculine, feminine, or neuter gender (this was decided by @yrieixgroulx). Each combination had a thematic vowel as shown in this article, but due to the vowel harmony in Old Hemeshi, the masculine and neuter physical as well as the masculine and feminine nonphysical have merged, leaving a (for lack of a better word) "skewed" noun class system. The feminine physical no longer has a thematic vowel due to schwa a being deleted (or changed if I follow through with a couple ideas) in most cases.
There are definitely more changes, but none that truly stand out to me. Maybe I'm wrong about how interesting you may find them. I don't know. [:P]
I definitely find this very interesting!

DesEsseintes wrote:I started getting ideas for Arawɨṭṭara, my latest conlang, which is probably going to get a new name soon for reasons I'm not going to elaborate on here. The phonology is falling into place and I love the possibilities it entails. Hopefully, I'll be able to share stuff soon, cos I'm so bored of not conlanging vigorously.
I can't wait to see what you come up with!

I made a lot of progress on Visigothic today. I've decided to just work on the grammar for now, and leave setting the sound changes in stone for later, although I have plenty of ideas so far. I'm going to drop the genitive and dative cases and innovate a future tense and conditional mood. I also want to have periphrastic constructions for the perfective and progressive/continuous aspects. I know I'm going to get rid of the neuter, probably by merging it with the masculine, but I'm not sure exactly how to do so. It's more complicated than it sounds. Of course, neuter pronouns and adjective declensions will fall out of use, but I'm not sure if I want to change noun declensions or not. For example, in at least the -a, -ja, and -an declensions, the masculine and neuter nouns appear to take different sets of suffixes. Anyway, I'll probably look into buying/finding more resources on Gothic and Old Spanish to aid me in my quest to create this language.

Also, I've begun doing research on the characteristics associated with both the Western and Eastern Zodiac signs for a story I want to write, possibly for NaNoWriMo this year. I want the 12 main characters to each be based on a combination between two signs, one from each Zodiac. For example, one character would have traits associated with Aries and the Rat, while another would have traits associated with Taurus and the Ox. This is kind of tough since I already had a few character ideas before deciding I wanted to create the characters this way. Hopefully my old ideas can still fit in with this new way of doing things.

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Re: What did you accomplish today?

Post by shimobaatar » 16 Aug 2016 18:10

Technically I accomplished this yesterday, but I made a thread to house my preliminary ideas for Visigothic. Today I made a post on noun declension. I want to include examples, but I'm still trying to figure out what to do about irregular nouns, and I'm not sure how I want to format the examples, so those won't be added immediately.

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Re: What did you accomplish today?

Post by felipesnark » 17 Aug 2016 03:41

I tweaked a number of things in Shonkasika in my documentation, mainly to correct errors and update changes. It's been tough as I start to gear up for school to start again soon. I also made a lot more of my documentation available on my Shonkasika website. Of course, over time, I need to continue to flesh it out and add more examples.
Visit my website for my blogs and information on my conlangs including Shonkasika: http://felipesnark.weebly.com/ It's a work in progress!

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Re: What did you accomplish today?

Post by HoskhMatriarch » 17 Aug 2016 10:03

- I made more words (although not many)
- made a collective (there's probably going to be more than one form of collective even if one's not productive, since that somehow seems normal)
- started working on how the lang is going to be named (which is a bit more complicated than how langs are named in English, mostly because you say "the language of X" as a formal name for a lang rather than use an adjective like "the X-ish/ian/ese language", which tends to turn into really long compound words, and to shorten that you end up saying something like "the (one) of X" which can be ambiguous and context-dependent, plus, a lot of the stuff is not very Anglicization-friendly, although it's not quite as cross-linguistically bonkers as some other langs I've tried to make)
- added a few cases (since it seemed a bit weird to me that this was a very agglutinative lang with 3 cases and a bunch of postpositional clitics, none of which turned into cases. Hopefully the cases I have now are enough, because I really don't think this kind of language would have 26 or 60 cases. Also there's no dative, yay)
- accidentally came up with something that's more or less a triple-object construction (well, you have a regular object, incorporate that, add a secondary object in a dative role, and then add an applicative. The verb always agrees with the applied object since that goes last, and the number/gender verb agreement usually disambiguates it since there are 6 classes. I don't care if no natlang does that, it seems reasonable enough to me)
- started working on how the classes will actually work instead of just saying "I want classes, and it should be formal, but it shouldn't look like German/French/Russian/whatever, because that system pretty much only arose once in the history of the whole world and I doubt it would happen again, and I don't think masculine/feminine or animate/inanimate would really keep things distinct enough of the time" (also, genders seem to be extremely language-family-dependent somehow. Almost all the langs with 3 genders are Indo-European, especially the ones with 3 formal genders, and the ones with two are about 50/50 Indo-European and Afro-Asiatic. I also think the map on WALS would be quite different if they had more data, as I thought there were a lot more animate/inanimate gender languages in the Americas than that and pretty much every language related to Mohawk has a masculine/feminine/"indefinite" system that I think is formal but doesn't quite work like your masc/fem/neut in German and such. Australia I thought had tons and tons of noun class systems like Dyirbal in that region but there aren't that many languages listed for Australia compared to other places in general. Australia is probably the region with the most variation in gender systems though, since IIRC a bunch of individual Australian languages have basically acquired gender systems from classifiers independently after they split off from the proto-languages rather than inheriting some gender system from a 5,000-year-old language and having it get modified in various ways since then)
- tried to make a past tense, but that went like this:
Me: Hmm, should I use a prefix or suffix? I kind of want a prefix, but really it should be a suffix. Let's just have a prefix and a suffix. If there's going to be a suffix, it's pretty much guaranteed to have umlaut, and having umlaut for one of the central verb categories probably should happen anyways. Also, it should probably be lowering/a-umlaut, because I don't really want to make a bunch of front rounded vowels in the past tense for some reason.
Me: So there's a circumfix and a-umlaut? That doesn't sound vaguely like anything else at all...*
Me: Well, when you think about it, that is pretty cool, and I can't think of much cooler except maybe tone changes...
Me: No.
Me: *sulks back off to think of something else*

(OK, that's not really how that happened)
- messed with the grammar quite a bit

*Yes, the circumfix happens with Indo-European ablaut in Germanic past participles and the a-umlaut is for the past tense finite verbs. It's still close enough to be annoying. Also, tense is such a prominently-marked category it would probably be annoying to have it marked as a circumfix all the time.
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Re: What did you accomplish today?

Post by Keenir » 17 Aug 2016 10:58

HoskhMatriarch wrote:- I made more words (although not many)
excellent!
(can we see?)
- started working on how the lang is going to be named (which is a bit more complicated than how langs are named in English, mostly because you say "the language of X" as a formal name for a lang rather than use an adjective like "the X-ish/ian/ese language",
actually, that's pretty much the same thing.
(Scottish = language of the Scots; English = language of the Angles; Vietnamese = language of Vietnam; etc)
- added a few cases (since it seemed a bit weird to me that this was a very agglutinative lang with 3 cases and a bunch of postpositional clitics, none of which turned into cases.
*shrugs* it happens.

ps: double-spacing helps readers.
- I don't care if no natlang does that, it seems reasonable enough to me)
bingo. precisely this, yes.
*Yes, the circumfix happens with Indo-European ablaut in Germanic past participles and the a-umlaut is for the past tense finite verbs. It's still close enough to be annoying.
if its annoying you, set it to one side, and work on another feature.
Also, tense is such a prominently-marked category it would probably be annoying to have it marked as a circumfix all the time.
why would it be annoying? presumably it tells the listener something...it might be annoying to someone who doesn't want to listen. :)
At work on Apaan: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=4799

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Re: What did you accomplish today?

Post by felipesnark » 18 Aug 2016 04:47

HoskhMatriarch wrote:- I made more words (although not many)
- made a collective (there's probably going to be more than one form of collective even if one's not productive, since that somehow seems normal)
Cool! Can we see some of this?
I worked on some minor noun declensions in Shonkasika (I love working on them!). Inspired by n-stems from some Indo-European languages, I came up with three minor declensions, mi-plurals, t-stems and z-stems.

mi-plurals are certain neuter nouns whose stems end in -ie or -i and would have indefinite plurals that would be identical to some indefinite singular forms or confused with singular forms. These nouns take -mi in the indefinite plural but not the definite plural.

t-stems are neuter nouns that end in a stressed vowel and take the suffix -te (sg.)/-ti (pl.) before all case forms besides the indefinite nominative singular.

z-stems are animate nouns (masculine, feminine, or common gender) that are stressed on the last syllable and take the suffix -ze in all case forms besides the indefinite nominative singular.

See examples here.
Visit my website for my blogs and information on my conlangs including Shonkasika: http://felipesnark.weebly.com/ It's a work in progress!

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Re: What did you accomplish today?

Post by Lao Kou » 18 Aug 2016 05:58

HoskhMatriarch wrote:I don't care if no natlang does that, it seems reasonable enough to me
Hosannah! [:D]
Also, tense is such a prominently-marked category it would probably be annoying to have it marked as a circumfix all the time.
French has negation as a "circumfix", and while not all the time in certain registers, I doubt "annoyance" is the motivation behind that. Personally, I think circumfixed tense sounds rather kewl. [B)]
Keenir wrote:(can we see?)
felipesnark wrote:Cool! Can we see some of this?
Yet two more requests to actually see what you're doing. People are paying attention -- you needn't be coy or parsimonious with the examples.
道可道,非常道
名可名,非常名

HoskhMatriarch
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Re: What did you accomplish today?

Post by HoskhMatriarch » 18 Aug 2016 06:29

Keenir wrote:
HoskhMatriarch wrote:- I made more words (although not many)
excellent!
(can we see?)
Well, I put a lot of the words in the CWS dictionary, and that's public.
Keenir wrote:
- started working on how the lang is going to be named (which is a bit more complicated than how langs are named in English, mostly because you say "the language of X" as a formal name for a lang rather than use an adjective like "the X-ish/ian/ese language",
actually, that's pretty much the same thing.
(Scottish = language of the Scots; English = language of the Angles; Vietnamese = language of Vietnam; etc)
For a second I thought you were going to say it's similar to something Scots does. And semantically, it's basically exactly the same thing, since English says things like "coastal waters" for "waters of the coast", it's just different morphologically and syntactically (and pragmatically insofar as that makes sense when referring to a noun).
Keenir wrote:
- added a few cases (since it seemed a bit weird to me that this was a very agglutinative lang with 3 cases and a bunch of postpositional clitics, none of which turned into cases.
*shrugs* it happens.

ps: double-spacing helps readers.
Well, pretty much the only difference between a postpositional clitic and a case was agreement, so basically I just added more agreement. All the cases aside from accusative are extremely straightforward.
Keenir wrote:
- I don't care if no natlang does that, it seems reasonable enough to me)
bingo. precisely this, yes.
Yeah, I read some papers about linguistic universals and it was pretty much "there are no universals". I think that's a bit of an exaggeration (for example, I'm pretty sure all spoken languages have phonemes and archiphonemes rather than like, semaphonemes) but there are a lot less limits on what languages can do than a lot of linguists want to think there are.
*Yes, the circumfix happens with Indo-European ablaut in Germanic past participles and the a-umlaut is for the past tense finite verbs. It's still close enough to be annoying.
if its annoying you, set it to one side, and work on another feature.
Keenir wrote:
Also, tense is such a prominently-marked category it would probably be annoying to have it marked as a circumfix all the time.
why would it be annoying? presumably it tells the listener something...it might be annoying to someone who doesn't want to listen. :)
Well, yeah, it's probably not as bad as I thought it was since in some languages with obligatory tense you have like 3-4 syllables basically just devoted to tense, but it's still too West Germanic-looking to do exactly what I said.
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Re: What did you accomplish today?

Post by Keenir » 18 Aug 2016 06:35

HoskhMatriarch wrote:
Keenir wrote:
HoskhMatriarch wrote:- I made more words (although not many)
excellent!
(can we see?)
Well, I put a lot of the words in the CWS dictionary, and that's public.
?
Keenir wrote:
- started working on how the lang is going to be named (which is a bit more complicated than how langs are named in English, mostly because you say "the language of X" as a formal name for a lang rather than use an adjective like "the X-ish/ian/ese language",
actually, that's pretty much the same thing.
(Scottish = language of the Scots; English = language of the Angles; Vietnamese = language of Vietnam; etc)
For a second I thought you were going to say it's similar to something Scots does. And semantically, it's basically exactly the same thing, since English says things like "coastal waters" for "waters of the coast", it's just different morphologically and syntactically (and pragmatically insofar as that makes sense when referring to a noun).
ah, and that is where, as a language creator, you get to play even more: you get to decide if they all express something the same, or each one is distinct, or neither.
At work on Apaan: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=4799

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Re: What did you accomplish today?

Post by kiwikami » 18 Aug 2016 21:37

Settled at last on six moods for Alál (marked on nouns, to take some of the load off the rather bogged-down verbs), including one that indicates the speaker is terrified of the information they are imparting (Aḳùzxıǎu zuùk - you're going to kill me). The desiderative merges with the potential when the noun ends in an affricate, which is fun; I'd like to come up with a few more things like that to add a bit of natural ambiguity. Also, "if" statements are now distinguished from "because" statements only by a single mood marker. I'll be puzzling out indirect quotations later tonight.

The root lexicon hit its 150-word milestone with ḍal /!äɬ/ "egg yolk (n), to be related to OBJ (v.t)" which'll help with kinship terms later on. Also last night and this morning I hand-drew a map of the distribution of Wayfarer subspecies over the course of a couple thousand years; I'll share it eventually when I get around to uploading it.
Keenir wrote:
HoskhMatriarch wrote:Well, I put a lot of the words in the CWS dictionary, and that's public.
?
HoskhMatriarch has a page for the language on the ConWorkShop, which has a dictionary! Could you give us a link to that, Hoskh?
Edit: Substituted a string instrument for a French interjection.

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Re: What did you accomplish today?

Post by felipesnark » 19 Aug 2016 03:26

kiwikami wrote:Settled at last on six moods for Alál (marked on nouns, to take some of the load off the rather bogged-down verbs), including one that indicates the speaker is terrified of the information they are imparting (Aḳùzxıǎu zuùk - you're going to kill me). The desiderative merges with the potential when the noun ends in an affricate, which is fun; I'd like to come up with a few more things like that to add a bit of natural ambiguity. Also, "if" statements are now distinguished from "because" statements only by a single mood marker. I'll be puzzling out indirect quotations later tonight.
Neat! How do you decide which noun in a clause gets the mood marking?
HoskhMatriarch wrote:Well, I put a lot of the words in the CWS dictionary, and that's public.
Link?
Visit my website for my blogs and information on my conlangs including Shonkasika: http://felipesnark.weebly.com/ It's a work in progress!

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Re: What did you accomplish today?

Post by Chagen » 19 Aug 2016 05:40

I find myself incessantly captivated by Proto-Indo-European's athematic nominal declension. The way shifting stress accent results in markers changing grades is just fascinating. One of the things that bugs me the most when conlanging is when words look very "samey" throughout their inflection. The PIE accent system helps alleviate that. Such a system was seen, a little, on Pazmat, but I want to make a little "minilang" about that kind of feature expanded to all nouns.

The basis is that damn-near every noun consists of three parts: the root, suffix, and ending. Plurality was originally going to be a fourth category, but that might make words too long so I'll probably give each suffix it's own unique plural variant (of course, I could change that). Anyway, viewed through a PIE lens, every single noun is Hysterokinetic--the accent bounces between the suffix and the ending (if I go for a system where the plural is a separate suffix, then the accent will pattern between the last two suffixes, probably). Unlike PIE, the case endings themselves undergo gradation.

Somewhat like PIE, the the suffix and endings have base vowels with different grades. This language's base vowels are /e/ and /o/. When accented, /e/ becomes /i/ and /o/ becomes /u/ (this is "high-grade"). When not accented, two grades are possible: either zero-grade, where /e/ drops completely and /o/ becomes /a/, or base-grade, where they remain /e/ and /o/ when preceding an accented syllable ("Base Grade"). Also, much like PIE, a zero-grade morpheme with a resonant will turn that resonant syllabic, if the morpheme is e-base.

(I am also debating cribbing even further from PIE, and having /e o/ lengthen instead of rise in high-grade)

Now, here's where things get probably little non-naturalistic. Imagine that zero grades have a value of 0, base grades have a value of 1, and high grades have a value of 2. A word's last three morphemes must add up to 4 (disyllabic words must add to 3). For instance, you could have High-High-Zero, but not High-High-Base. This has some pretty big implications, because most nouns in this language are tri-morphemic, like PIE. Since the grade of a noun's root is fixed, the grades of the suffix and endings must be wrangled to fit. I should probably provide some examples:

Let's take nugh, formed from the high grade of some root nogh (the meaning is irrelevant here). We suffix this with -nor, giving us nughnor (jeez this already doesn't look anything like PIE). The Nominative does not have to follow the accenting rules. Now let's take some random cases:

Strong (does not change grade):
ACC: -as
DAT: -ut
GEN: -ev

Weak (will change grade if forced to; all weak cases are base-grade):
LOC: -et
ESS: -ews
ALL: -obha

(For disyllabic case endings like -ete and -ebha, the graded vowel is always the first; the second vowel does not change grade)

So, using accent marks to denote high grade:

ACC: núgh-nor-as; High-Base-Zero. This adds to 3; unacceptable. In this case, the first possible morpheme, going from the right, which can change its grade will do so. Since roots and the Accusative are both strong, nor must change grade, rising to become nur, and giving us núghnúras
DAT: núgh-nor-út. High-Base-High. 5; unacceptable. Once more, nor must change its grade, lowering to nar, giving us núghnarút
GEN: núgh-nor-ev. High-Base-Base. 4; no change needed: núghnorev

(I am already tired of typing ctrl-u-' just to type <ú>. Fuck.)

LOC: núgh-nor-et. High-Base-Base. This adds to four--in fact, all of the three weak cases I showed will add to 4 and be acceptable. núghnoret
ESS: núgh-nor-ews > núghnorews
ALL: núgh-nor-obha > núghnorobha

To provide examples of how minor changes can affect the whole paradigm, here's what would happen if -nor were instead its zero-grade form -nar (no suffix is high-grade):

NOM: núghnar
ACC: núghnoras
DAT: núghnarut
GEN: núghnorev
LOC: núghnarít
ESS: núghnarús
ALL: núghnarúbha

Huh...that's not as different as I expected.

Well, for yet more examples: let's take the root id, zero-grade of yed, and suffix -er to it:

NOM: ider
...and stop right there, because it's fundamentally impossible for the Accusative to have correct grades: ideras can only become idíras, which adds to 3 and still isn't acceptable. Shit. I need to re-think this system, or ban zero-grade roots. Regardless, taking an irregular ACC idíras, let's continue:
DAT: idírút
GEN: ...Also impossible. At best, idírev adds to 3. Dammit. I'm going to make a quick hack that zero-grade roots count as 1 for strong cases only, but this is still unsatisfactory.
LOC: idírít
ESS: idírús
ALL:idírúhba

I can already see some patterns forming: If a noun's root is Zero-Grade, and has a Base Grade suffix, then its cases will have these forms:

ACC: Z-H-Z
DAT: Z-H-H
GEN: Z-H-Z
All weak cases: Z-H-H

Likewise, any noun with root high-grade and suffix base-grade:

ACC: H-H-Z
DAT: H-B-H
GEN: H-B-B
All weak cases: H-B-B

And do the mathematical flair of this, I can compute that a root base-grade and suffix base-grade would be:

ACC: Impossible. At best there's B-H-Z which is 3. Ugh.
DAT: B-B-H
GEN: B-B-H
All weak cases: B-B-H

Still...I don't like how this currently is. I mean, I like the way the language looks, as some demented cousin to PIE yet still very much its own thing, but...this isn't working. There's very little wiggle room for me to do fun stuff. I could do the PIE method where every grade was mostly arbitrary, but I wanted a logical, programming-like system, though that computational framework now limits me a lot. Right now, there's never a case where a weak case suffix will be zero grade.

It's like I've taken PIE's athematic nominal framework and managed to create a boring and soulless copy. In its place is a needlessly-"logical" morphology that probably isn't even naturalistic.

....I also have no clue what the fuck I actually want to do with this language outside of this nominal morphology. I really just made this to crib off of PIE's athematic noun declension. Like...I'm making a nominal morphology completely divorced from an actual language just so I can decline nouns which don't mean anything for fun. God I'm a fucking weirdo.

Back to the drawing board, I guess.
Nūdenku waga honji ma naku honyasi ne ika-ika ichamase!
female-appearance=despite boy-voice=PAT hold boy-youth=TOP very be.cute-3PL
Honyasi zō honyasi ma naidasu.
boy-youth=AGT boy-youth=PAT love.romantically-3S

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