Tloko / Omya redux

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Lambuzhao
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Re: Tloko / Omya redux

Post by Lambuzhao » 30 Jul 2017 17:56

lsd wrote:What disturbs me is that the regular square pattern seems to be artificially filled with piece additions ... such as a calligraphic regularity imposed by a standardized treatment ...
But this is not a problem in itself ... giving an appearance of Peruvian wall rather than Mayan glyph...
Image
The sexy woman! [:'(] [:'(] [:'(] [:'(] [:'(] This picture reminds me of a really nice one of Sacsayhuaman in my Spanish textbook that we recently had to retire.

Oh, BTW - ¡Viva el Perú, c@r@jo!

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sangi39
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Re: Tloko / Omya redux

Post by sangi39 » 30 Jul 2017 22:17

masako wrote: Image
In these examples you can see that each point is not pronounced or listed as it may not be a juncture or stopping point for the brush. However, each point is covered by the brushstroke. A colon ":" marks a raise of the pen/brush.
Just a quick question about this (well, depends on how this goes), but might it be possible to use the calligraphic descriptions in poetry as separate words? For example with maua, "flower", were pauayo, teneso and ko to be separate words (or something similar with word boundaries like pa uayo or tene so), could they be used in a poem about a flower in place of using the word maua? Basically a slightly more complex version of "C is for... A is for.. T is for..." [:P]
You can tell the same lie a thousand times,
But it never gets any more true,
So close your eyes once more and once more believe
That they all still believe in you.
Just one time.

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masako
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Re: Tloko / Omya redux

Post by masako » 04 Aug 2017 14:43

sangi39 wrote:Just a quick question about this (well, depends on how this goes), but might it be possible to use the calligraphic descriptions in poetry as separate words?
I get what you're asking, but the answer might be disappointing. In a word, yes, but with severe limitations.

Because there are only nine syllables used in the "spelling" of each glyph, the possible vocabulary is limited, and given that the "spelling" will always occur in a predictable pattern, the possible vocabulary is limited even further. One more limitation is that no Kala lemma begins with /l/, so you only get 8 possible initial syllables.

An example of what you might be talking about is found in the glyph anya;

pa-ko : pa-ua : ne : so-yo-le (order corrected for basic stroke order principles)

pako - new; fresh; young

paua - (no meaning yet)

ne - indirect object particle

soyo - be abstract; abstraction

-le - relative clause marker

So, maybe something close to "that which is a fresh abstraction..."

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Re: Tloko / Omya redux

Post by masako » 08 Aug 2017 02:13

Just wondering if this is too over-the-top? Or dumb?

Image

Image

Image

to have these glyphs be so similar?

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Re: Tloko / Omya redux

Post by sangi39 » 08 Aug 2017 02:34

masako wrote:Just wondering if this is too over-the-top? Or dumb?

Image

Image

Image

to have these glyphs be so similar?
I don't think it's unreasonable. I might be remembering this somewhat incorrectly, but back in the very early history of Chinese characters, sometimes new characters were created by adding an arbitrary stroke to an existing character to indicate something with a similar meaning, but which was nonetheless a distinct word. Or maybe that was cuneiform. Either way, nah, you should be somewhat fine as long as this process isn't hugely common (or appears commonly in text). You might get the odd reading error, but chances are that context will take care of that, e.g. "it was raining in the kaya of York"... "no, that can't be right, York is a kama... ohhh...".
You can tell the same lie a thousand times,
But it never gets any more true,
So close your eyes once more and once more believe
That they all still believe in you.
Just one time.

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Re: Tloko / Omya redux

Post by masako » 09 Aug 2017 15:51

sangi39 wrote:Either way, nah, you should be somewhat fine as long as this process isn't hugely common (or appears commonly in text). You might get the odd reading error, but chances are that context will take care of that, e.g. "it was raining in the kaya of York"... "no, that can't be right, York is a kama... ohhh...".
Heh. Good point.

The thing about this script, is that the "glyphs" would primarily appear in the monumental form, whereas more common "written" or "textual" compositions would be more-or-less written strictly with the syllabary, greatly reducing (not necessarily eliminating) the type of errors you note.

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Re: Tloko / Omya redux

Post by Lambuzhao » 10 Aug 2017 06:39

If this were Hieratic Egyptian, the three-dot glyph kama would eventually have become a form with just a horizontal slash like kaya.

In Hieroglyphic Egyptian, a glyph may have three small vertical strokes ||| underneath to denote plural/collectivity. You can see this under the eagle glyph in this pic:
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/23 ... ntings.jpg
In early Hieratic, the strokes get reduced to pretty much to what you have for kama. Then, they got joined in a stroke reminiscent of a cursive lower-case /w/ sort of grapheme.

You can see this in the second line of the Hieratic text B, of the glyphs of the duck with the ||| underneath, and the two jars with the ||| underneath in the second line of the Hieratic text, corresponding (in reversed order) to the Hieroglyphics above in text A:
http://www.mmdtkw.org/EGtkw0302EgyptianScripts2.jpg


In later Hieratic texts, it gets reduced to a single horizontal stroke, as in kaya. It also appears like this in some Demotic Egyptain words as a stroke, if it appears at all.
See the evolution of the glyph for ⅓ at the bottom:
https://cnx.org/resources/5bf684c6a60cc ... Image1.gif

Clearly, though, this is not Hieratic. It's its own blooming flower. Keep on impressing!
[:)]
The thing about this script, is that the "glyphs" would primarily appear in the monumental form, whereas more common "written" or "textual" compositions would be more-or-less written strictly with the syllabary, greatly reducing (not necessarily eliminating) the type of errors you note.
That's kind of a shame. If I were writing this script (and you know I've already started practicing [;)] ), I'd use the glyphs whenever I could. Like Sangi suggested, any errors of similitude should be sussed out in context, as in, say, Chinese or Japanese.

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Re: Tloko / Omya redux

Post by Lambuzhao » 10 Aug 2017 07:10

maua nyetetle
A flower in bloom
[:)]
¿maua metsutle? I'm prolly pushing it once again, but the metaphor of the flower opening as if an eye has some appeal

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Re: Tloko / Omya redux

Post by masako » 12 Aug 2017 03:50

That's kind of a shame. If I were writing this script (and you know I've already started practicing), I'd use the glyphs whenever I could.
That's nice of you to say, but this script is nothing compared to Han characters, either in breadth, or style. Also, if you want to use glyphs when writing, there certainly isn't a rule saying you can't, however, think of them as more formal than the syllabary...perhaps even stuffy by comparison. Yes, they can reduce character count, but 136 syllables are much easier to parse, read, and write than 500 or so glyphs.
maua nyetetle
This isn't a bad translation, but I would simply say ke mauanko.

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Re: Tloko / Omya redux

Post by Lambuzhao » 12 Aug 2017 21:32

masako wrote:
That's kind of a shame. If I were writing this script (and you know I've already started practicing), I'd use the glyphs whenever I could.
That's nice of you to say, but this script is nothing compared to Han characters, either in breadth, or style. Also, if you want to use glyphs when writing, there certainly isn't a rule saying you can't, however, think of them as more formal than the syllabary...perhaps even stuffy by comparison. Yes, they can reduce character count, but 136 syllables are much easier to parse, read, and write than 500 or so glyphs.
Indeed. It is your bubele. I did not mean to overstep my bounds on the matter.
[:x]
maua nyetetle
This isn't a bad translation, but I would simply say ke mauanko.
[tick]
nyasa

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Re: Tloko / Omya redux

Post by Lambuzhao » 14 Aug 2017 07:53

What I said about combining logograms and syllabary

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nOE8r9pdXO0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bcdYKxHT8kY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CF3MRMBjd20

I take it back. I take it all back.
[:x]

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Re: Tloko / Omya redux

Post by masako » 20 Aug 2017 00:45

Lambuzhao wrote:I take it back. I take it all back.
I'm glad you came around. I was really worried for about 2 minutes.

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Re: Tloko / Omya redux

Post by Lambuzhao » 21 Aug 2017 15:52

Did you make a symbol for eclipse yet?
:wat:

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Re: Tloko / Omya redux

Post by masako » 22 Aug 2017 05:33

Lambuzhao wrote:Did you make a symbol for eclipse yet?
Nope.

I haven't, um, covered that yet.

Seriously, I don't think it'll end-up being a single glyph.

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Re: Tloko / Omya redux

Post by masako » 25 Feb 2018 18:48

I've been editing a new omyatloko (.pdf) presentation page to go along with the new glyphs and radical system. I would like any and all feedback that anyone might have. Thank you.

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Re: Tloko / Omya redux

Post by Thrice Xandvii » 27 Feb 2018 08:04

The section where you describe the example glyphs (lyao, ntlu...) might be slightly more easy to parse if the example glyph was directly before the text explaining it and not in a block above ALL of the descriptions. There are a few small things like that throughout that could use a bit of moving around to maximize the association between what is discussed and the image it references (this would also make a quick skim FAR more effortless, in case that matters to you). Other than that, it seems rather clear and concise.

Any things in particular that you are looking for feedback about?
Image

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Re: Tloko / Omya redux

Post by masako » 28 Feb 2018 15:25

Thrice Xandvii wrote:
27 Feb 2018 08:04
The section where you describe the example glyphs (lyao, ntlu...) might be slightly more easy to parse if the example glyph was directly before the text explaining it and not in a block above ALL of the descriptions.
Yeah, that's how I had it initially, and changed it to save space, but I think I'll change it back for the final product. Thank you.
Thrice Xandvii wrote:
27 Feb 2018 08:04
Any things in particular that you are looking for feedback about?
Nope. Style and format are really the main things I wanted to flesh out before I publish it on my site. I do look forward to being able to look for feedback on the glyphs once I reach a good point with the gallery. I've been making 3 or 4 news glyphs a day for a few weeks, so I'm much closer to "complete" than I have been for a while.

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Re: Tloko / Omya redux

Post by masako » 01 Apr 2018 19:14

Image

The radicals of a new schema I'm contemplating.

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Re: Tloko / Omya redux

Post by masako » 05 Oct 2018 19:06


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