Yantas - Birth of a New World

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Re: Yantas - Birth of a New World

Post by sangi39 » 12 Sep 2015 17:04

shimobaatar wrote:
sangi39 wrote: It's supposed to be kind of historical as well, and kind of shows the main cultural viewpoint I'll be dealing with as I start moving through history. Isles are either uninhabited or not inhabited by humans (and by the Kovur instead). They might have a "native" name, either given to them by a nearby human culture (the Dagger Islands, for example, might have a Velkastan name, but no-one lives there), or they might have a Kovur name (Wolf Island, for example, is home to one of the first Kovur populations encountered by the post-Kusan Empire explorers of the 16th Century AD. It has a native Kovur name, but it was given a different name by explorers).
When you say that "no-one lives there", do I understand correctly that you mean no humans live there?
In relation to the Dagger Islands "no-one" meant neither human nor Kovur [:)]
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Re: Yantas - Birth of a New World

Post by sangi39 » 26 Sep 2015 21:59

This is just a start on naming mountain ranges, which I'm finding pretty tricky.

First, I've tried to look at which mountain ranges which I initially thought would be separate might actually form longer ranges:

Image

The mountain range in marked in red, known as the Spine of The World, is formed as the result of a number of on-going tectonic collisions, both continental-continental and continental-oceanic. Similarly, the mountain range marked in yellow (the Great Kovur Range) is the result of on-going tectonic activity, but also includes a smaller mountain range which is no longer tectonically active.

These two large mountain ranges are the largest on Yantas, with other smaller mountain ranges resulting from on-going activity marked in black (the Konyur Range), brown (the Lesic Range) and purple (the Greater Velkastan Range). A number of "lesser" mountain ranges (in terms of altitude) are much older and are no longer tectonically active. These are marked in orange, white (the Skawlan Range), pink (the Lesser Velkastan Range) and blue (the Mesit Range).

The naming of the larger ranges is obviously fairly lazy, but I'm hoping to get past that once I start trying to name smaller divisions of those ranges.
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Re: Yantas - Birth of a New World

Post by shimobaatar » 28 Sep 2015 00:04

The map, names, and descriptions all look excellent to me. [:D]

One question, though, if you wouldn't mind my asking:
sangi39 wrote: The naming of the larger ranges is obviously fairly lazy, but I'm hoping to get past that once I start trying to name smaller divisions of those ranges.
What do you mean by this?

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Re: Yantas - Birth of a New World

Post by sangi39 » 29 Sep 2015 00:45

shimobaatar wrote:The map, names, and descriptions all look excellent to me. [:D]

One question, though, if you wouldn't mind my asking:
sangi39 wrote: The naming of the larger ranges is obviously fairly lazy, but I'm hoping to get past that once I start trying to name smaller divisions of those ranges.
What do you mean by this?
The major ranges are mostly named after the major language group in that area (Mesit, Lesic and Skawlan), the continent their on (Konyur and Velkastan) or the non-human species which lives around those mountains (Kovur).

What I want to do when I start naming the smaller divisions of those ranges, though, is to move away from that and use names that are more independent of stuff like that. So, for example, if we assume that the Alpide Belt of Earth was instead named something like the Eurasian Range, in a manner similar to the Konyur Range of Yantas. Its name here is related to the continent it's found in. However, the subdivisions of the Alpide (Eurasian) Belt are named things like the Alps (with an uncertain(?) etymology, either from a word meaning "hill" or "white), the Carpathians (with a similarly uncertain etymology, possibly going back to a word meaning "cliff" or "rock"), the Pyrenees (named after a princess of classical Greek mythology) and the Himalayas (from a Sanskrit word meaning "abode of snow").
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Re: Yantas - Birth of a New World

Post by shimobaatar » 29 Sep 2015 01:13

sangi39 wrote: The major ranges are mostly named after the major language group in that area (Mesit, Lesic and Skawlan), the continent their on (Konyur and Velkastan) or the non-human species which lives around those mountains (Kovur).

What I want to do when I start naming the smaller divisions of those ranges, though, is to move away from that and use names that are more independent of stuff like that. So, for example, if we assume that the Alpide Belt of Earth was instead named something like the Eurasian Range, in a manner similar to the Konyur Range of Yantas. Its name here is related to the continent it's found in. However, the subdivisions of the Alpide (Eurasian) Belt are named things like the Alps (with an uncertain(?) etymology, either from a word meaning "hill" or "white), the Carpathians (with a similarly uncertain etymology, possibly going back to a word meaning "cliff" or "rock"), the Pyrenees (named after a princess of classical Greek mythology) and the Himalayas (from a Sanskrit word meaning "abode of snow").
Ah, thanks for the clarification, and I actually wasn't aware that the Alps, Carpathians, Pyrenees, and Himalayas are considered to be part of a larger range! In any case, I definitely agree that dividing the larger ranges up a bit will make naming mountains and groups of mountains much easier. Best of luck! [:D]

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Re: Yantas - Birth of a New World

Post by Keenir » 29 Sep 2015 01:59

shimobaatar wrote:Ah, thanks for the clarification, and I actually wasn't aware that the Alps, Carpathians, Pyrenees, and Himalayas are considered to be part of a larger range!
that's news to me.

I knew the Himalayas were from the collision with India...but I can't see how that caused the Alps.. (thought that was from Africa striking Europe)
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Re: Yantas - Birth of a New World

Post by shimobaatar » 29 Sep 2015 02:21

I don't know much about mountains and plate tectonics and all that, but this page and this page seem to indicate that this larger range is made up of mountains created not by a single collision of two plates, but apparently by a series of side-by-side ongoing collisions between multiple plates in the south and a single plate in the north starting at around the same time, (pre)historically. I could be interpreting the content of those pages incorrectly, though, since, as I said, I know very little about this.

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Re: Yantas - Birth of a New World

Post by sangi39 » 06 Nov 2015 15:32

I'm slowly working on updating how the mountainous regions of Yantas appear on the map. At the moment I'm trying this out:

Image

Mountainous regions about 2000m are marked out with black, peak-like shapes while areas between about 1000-2000m are marked out in with light green diagonal lines. I'm not quite sure how I'll mark out plateaus within these height boundaries, but I'll figure something out.

The main idea here is to clearly mark out mountainous regions, but without being much more complex than I feel like I need to be at this scale. More local maps will likely be filled out as I go, but for now I this this will roughly do.
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Re: Yantas - Birth of a New World

Post by Darvince » 06 Dec 2015 11:43

I like that method, although how do you make it not be so tedious to do? Do you have a brush that you made to paint these mountains on?

For my own paper worldbuilding once I get to the stage where I'm doing elevation I'll mark out mountains by just using peak symbols of varying sizes to represent their heights (either from each other, or from the ground below). This system seems to be a bit tricky for plateaus though.
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Re: Yantas - Birth of a New World

Post by sangi39 » 06 Dec 2015 18:28

Darvince wrote:I like that method, although how do you make it not be so tedious to do? Do you have a brush that you made to paint these mountains on?

For my own paper worldbuilding once I get to the stage where I'm doing elevation I'll mark out mountains by just using peak symbols of varying sizes to represent their heights (either from each other, or from the ground below). This system seems to be a bit tricky for plateaus though.
Honestly, I've done almost nothing on Yantas in aaages (either conworlding on conlanging). They've both kind of slipped away from me the last couple of months and I think my activity on the board in general has dropped (I've only posted 19 times since November 1st).

As for it being tedious, yeah, it really is. GIMPs not been working properly for me for a while (I had some issues with my laptop a while back. I mean, it could probably be sorted fairly easily by simply reinstalling it, but whatever), so I've been working in MSPaint for the last however long. So this is basically a pixel-by-pixel effort [:P]

As for representing plateaus, yeah, that is kind of tricky. At the moment I'm just leaving gaps within the mountainous areas to represent them, but that's obviously ambiguous. I have a couple of ideas for them, this one's the one I was thinking of most when I stopped working on it last:

Image

The plateaus and marked in a kind of dark grey. They're pretty hard to see, but I assume that's a colour issue.
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Re: Yantas - Birth of a New World

Post by sangi39 » 11 Jan 2016 20:35

So, I decided to have a bit of a go at a calendar, mostly for the Kusan Empire, but the development noted here could also mirror its in-world history, so neighbouring groups might employ similar calendars. All mention of "days" are a day on Yantas, which is 24hrs 40mins long. All mention of "years" are given as one orbit of Yantas around its sun.

So, let's start with the basics.

1) Yantas orbits its sun, Italva, once every 386.925 days.
2) Yantas has two moons, Kadyura and Hwestun.
3) Hwestun goes from one full moon to the next every 46.500 days (8.321 cycles per year)
4) Kadyura goes from one full moon to the next every 11.916 days (32.471 cycles per year, or 3.902 cycles for each of Hwestun's)

A year is divided into Long Months, consisting of alternating lengths of 46 and 47 days, coinciding with the Full Hwestun Cycle (FHC).

A year is also divided into Short Months, consisting of fixed periods of 12 days, which used to coincide with the Full Kadyura Cycle (FKC) but was, at some point in the past, fixed, rather that changing the length of the Short Month 3 times a year to match up with the FKC.

New Year's Day falls on the first day of a Long Month after the Winter Solstice.

Just to throw some temporary names out there for looking at it more easily:

Lirgat - 46 days (contains New Year's Day)
Vilgat - 47 days
Hargat - 46 days
Ledegat - 47 days
Tibegat - 46 days
Singat - 47 days
Jeligat - 46 days
Humugat - 47 days

The intercalary months are named Jeligat II and Humugat II depending on how many days they contain (46 and 47 respectively). If a leap year contained Jeligat II, the next one will contain Humugat II, the next after that Jeligat II and so on and so on.

A result of this is that a year will either be 372 days long (known as a Short Year) or 418/419 years (known as a Long Year).

The Winter Solstice will fall within Humugat during a Short Year and either Jeligat II or Humugat II during a Long Year.

Long Years (so far as I've worked it out so far) occur every 3 years, although I suspect that there will be exceptions to this rule, but I haven't quite worked them out yet.

Since the Short Months are fixed at 12 days long, the day on which New Year's Day falls within the Short Month changes each year (similar to the way the day of the week on which New Year's Day fall in the Gregorian Calendar also changes).



Several rest days are observed within the official Imperial Calendar. The days on which either moon was full are considered rest days as are the days immediately before and after New Year's Day (along with New Year's Day known as the New Year's Triad). The Winter Solstice is also a recognised rest day, as is the Summer Solstice, but only those days specifically.

The Imperial Calendar makes no allowances for additional rest days should, for example, a full Kadyura and a full Hwestun coincide on the same day, but where rest days accumulated one after the other, each one was observed in full and often resulted in larger celebrations. (one thing that, I think, is possible, is for the New Year's Triad, a full Kadyura and the Winter Solstice to all occur on separate days, resulting in a 5-day-long period of rest).

Several additional rest days are observed, notably the Feast of Sodyënar, the chief deity within the Kusan pantheon, celebrated on the second day of Hargat, and the Salute to the Emperor, celebrated originally on the day of either the Emperor's birth or his rise to power, but eventually fixed on the second day of Singat.



There is also a cycle of 9 years, named after the 9 major deities of the pantheon. Combine this with a tradition of numerology, and some people believe that it's possible to predict the future, to a degree, and there is a tradition of spiritual advisers to the Emperor who counsel him on matters of war, festivals and the like based on this tradition.
You can tell the same lie a thousand times,
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So close your eyes once more and once more believe
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Re: Yantas - Birth of a New World

Post by sangi39 » 13 Jun 2016 22:10

So, I mentioned before in another thread that I was thinking about adding a form of magic to Yantas, but one that sort of only works in the background, inspired for the most part by Terry Pratchett's work.

Basically, there's a kind of magical field that permeates the world. It can affect the world, and in turn be affected by it but the main idea is that it's affected by "belief". I'm not entirely sure exactly how far this will go. Like, belief formed through selective pattern association, and some animals have been shown to have pattern recognition abilites, which can become ritualised. Anyway, onto the next bit.

The effect on the magical field increases as the number of instances of belief also increases, and this gives rise to deities, which are kind of like a conscious manifestation of the magical field, and it's the deities in particular that can have a noticeable effect on the world.

So, say someone believes that wearing certain socks on certain days will bring them good luck. This is actually true, in that that belief has an effect on a given outcome, but it's really, really small. However, if a person believes that praying to a deity believed in by thousands of other people will bring them good luck, then that deity can actually have a greater physical effect on the real world.

And that's where magic and devotion come into play. Deities, being conscious and the ability to make choices, can either act in accordance with a prayer or ignore it, or anything in between. Deities, by and large, like when people act the way they (the deities) want them (the people) to act, and sacrifices, and praise, and all of that stuff. So the more a person sucks up to a deity, the more likely that deity will do what that person has asked.

Deities, though, aren't omnipotent, nor omnipresent or omniscient. They're not omnitemporal or omnibenevolent, or anything like that. They exist and have power as the result of belief and only exist so long as people believe in them. Some deities do kind of go on forever. Like, solar deities are usually just different versions of the same actual deity, while the protector of a city will be very local. All creation myths are incorrect, regardless of belief in them, and deities can only act within a region in which their believers occupy (which could make warfare quite interesting).

Demigods can exist, but deities cannot themselves have children with other deities, or on their own. The family trees of deities that people imagine might also be incredibly wrong. A person believed to be a demigod might just be a really awesome person, and someone who is actually a demigod might be dull and forgotten.

Summing it up, there are deities, and magic does exist, but it's pretty hit and miss.
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Re: Yantas - Birth of a New World

Post by shimobaatar » 13 Jun 2016 22:42

sangi39 wrote:So, I decided to have a bit of a go at a calendar, mostly for the Kusan Empire, but the development noted here could also mirror its in-world history, so neighbouring groups might employ similar calendars. All mention of "days" are a day on Yantas, which is 24hrs 40mins long. All mention of "years" are given as one orbit of Yantas around its sun.

So, let's start with the basics.
Very impressive stuff! I'd make more specific comments if I knew more about this kind of thing, which, sadly, I don't.
sangi39 wrote: Summing it up, there are deities, and magic does exist, but it's pretty hit and miss.
This is also an awesome collection of ideas!
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Re: Yantas - Birth of a New World

Post by Creyeditor » 13 Jun 2016 22:43

I think that's an interesting expansion and refinement of Pratchett's work.
So magic is inherently associated with gods, interesting. And small gods can never be powerful even if they have one believer, who believes in them very strongly? What a shame [xD]
I also like that you found a consistent solution for creation myths and family trees of gods.
Fun fact: Your gods are not omnipotent, they are impotent. I don't know if this is as funny in English as it is in German, but in German impotent usually means unable to procreate .... [:D]
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Re: Yantas - Birth of a New World

Post by shimobaatar » 13 Jun 2016 22:45

Creyeditor wrote: Fun fact: Your gods are not omnipotent, they are impotent. I don't know if this is as funny in English as it is in German, but in German impotent usually means unable to procreate .... [:D]
The joke works in English, too. [:P]

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Re: Yantas - Birth of a New World

Post by sangi39 » 13 Jun 2016 22:57

Creyeditor wrote:I think that's an interesting expansion and refinement of Pratchett's work.
Thanks. I quite liked the idea he presented in Small Gods, but I didn't want to just rip it off completely, and I think this gives more room for, for example, agnosticism and atheism to exist. Magic and deities do exist, but with deities being pretty up for doing there own thing you could just as easily suggest that magic doesn't exist as easily as you could say it does.


Creyeditor wrote:So magic is inherently associated with gods, interesting. And small gods can never be powerful even if they have one believer, who believes in them very strongly? What a shame [xD]
I'd say magic is more effective when associated with gods. Like, your belief in some ritual can have a real-world effect, but the chances of that happening are pretty small if there's not a well-established deity behind it.

So, yeah, one deity with one believer is going to be pretty weak, as is the magical stuff that deity can do [:P]


Creyeditor wrote:I also like that you found a consistent solution for creation myths and family trees of gods.
I'm still trying to work on the details for that. I mostly want the deities' existence and powers to be very dependent on belief, but I don't want them to be subject to stories. If that makes sense. Like, they exist as a result of belief, but they mostly exist in isolation.


Creyeditor wrote:Fun fact: Your gods are not omnipotent, they are impotent. I don't know if this is as funny in English as it is in German, but in German impotent usually means unable to procreate .... [:D]
It works in English as well. It was the basis of a joke in the TV series Friends [:)]
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So close your eyes once more and once more believe
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Re: Yantas - Birth of a New World

Post by sangi39 » 07 Aug 2017 03:21

Completely forgot to post this here 3 years ago (thanks to a not-so-random search through the Cartographers' Guild):

Image
You can tell the same lie a thousand times,
But it never gets any more true,
So close your eyes once more and once more believe
That they all still believe in you.
Just one time.

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Re: Yantas - Birth of a New World

Post by Davush » 07 Aug 2017 23:55

Maps like this are always nice to see [:D]. Especially at different rotations like this so we can see how close continents/islands are from each other.

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Re: Yantas - Birth of a New World

Post by sangi39 » 08 Aug 2017 00:10

Davush wrote:Maps like this are always nice to see [:D]. Especially at different rotations like this so we can see how close continents/islands are from each other.
I was also a way of looking at how the continents around the poles would actually look given the distortions caused by the equirectangular projection. Velkasta looked a lot different before I started converting the map to a "spherical" projection and it took a fair amount of trail and error to get it to look a way that I was happy with (which is why here it looks so different from this older map).

I was actually meant to use it to come up with a basic map for the spread of the human and Kovur species on the planet, but for some reason I skipped over that.
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Re: Yantas - Birth of a New World

Post by sangi39 » 31 Aug 2017 22:35

So I thought I'd try to have a quick go at drawing out the spread of human and Kovur populations probably up until about 15,000-10,000BC (using our timeline and using the "languages" thread as 1AD). Humans and the Kovur evolved in what I hope would be similar climates at roughly the same time within the last 200-500 thousand years, with humans spreading much further:

Image



This doesn't necessarily mark anything about the spread of languages up to 1AD. For example, the area populated by Lesic languages in eastern Sirden as well as the Ninda, Luvijasa and Bereka Islands are represented by at least two major people groups, one coming from the northern coast and another coming from the south.

I'm still not sure what I'm doing about Velkasta, but I'm thinking it will largely be fairly isolated from the rest of the world beyond occasional interactions with people from the Bereka Islands until people of the former Kusan Empire (western Sirden) start to explore the rest of the world by sea (maybe after the "Kusanic" people come into contact with the Kovur across the Sunset Ocean in eastern Mistaya.



There are at least three main points of early interaction between humans and the Kovur, in northern Konyur and then in western and southern Hungas. These would likely occur independently of each other, the first interaction occurring on the southern coast of Hungas and the third occurring in northern Konyur.

(and, yes, I'm still working very, very slowly on this world [:P] )
You can tell the same lie a thousand times,
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So close your eyes once more and once more believe
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