The History of the Greater West

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The History of the Greater West

Post by Shemtov » 04 Dec 2016 04:24

This is a history of the altworld containing my conlangs such as Iberika, Gallika, and Italika (which I plan to return to soon)
Around 90 BCE, a New Hellenic Empire was established with its capital at Byzantium. It conquered to the east to the Euphrates north of Aleppo, and west to a territory containing IRL Greece, Albania, Bulgaria, the Former Yugoslavia, Italy, France, Southern Belgium, and Northern Iberia.
After the Death of Herod the Great, power shifted from Judea to his Idumean relatives, who conquered an Idumean Empire, including the Levant, Iraq west of the Tigris, Turkey east of the Euphrates, the Caucasus Mts., Iranian Azerbaijan, Kuwait, and SA north of a line stretching from Dammam.
Around this time, a Carthaginian empire conquered North Africa and southern Iberia.
Around 30 CE, Jesus of Nazareth was killed by the Idumeans.
Around 45 CE, a Jew living in the Hellenic empire named Saul of Tarsus, made a pilgrimage to Jerusalem and brought back a modified version of the teachings of Jesus.
69 CE, the Idumeans destroyed Herod's Temple after a Jewish Insurrection. The Jerusalem Church was also crushed.
By 100 CE, Pauline Christianity had spread through most of the eastern Hellenic Empire.
C. 300, the Hellenic Emperor made Pauline Christianity the official religion of his empire, and established the doctrine of the Trinity.Around this time, the major religion of Idumea was a form of non-Christian Gnosticism.
C. 400 Christianity began to reenter Idumea; a Prophet named Simon of Gaza established a Gnostic/Christian syncretic religion. In this religion, he was seen as the Second Coming of Jesus, who came to establish new knowledge of the deity. To the Simonist Gnostics, the Demiurge was only the deity believed by the Jews in the Second Temple period, and they thus rejected the Hebrew Scriptural books from that period, and held to a a heavily edited version of the Greek scriptures, and also a new Simonist scripture.
Around this time, a new Persian empire arose, conquering all of non-Idumean Iran and Iraq and also Afghanistan, Central Asia, and IRL Pakistan west of the Indus.
C. 500 Christianity began to penetrate the Carthaginian empire, being the second most dominant religion their after Baalism. Arabian mercenaries began to ally themselves with Carthage.
C. 600 Muhammad of Mecca established Islam, based on the Pauline Christianity and Judaism that had penetrated Arabia. His 'Umma conquered South Arabia.
By 800 CE. Islam replaced Christianity and Baalism in Carthage, because of missionaries that crossed the Red Sea. Because of this, the Carthaginian empire merged with the Umma, becoming the Arabo-Carthagian empire, with a disglossia between Arabic for religious and government purposes, and Carthaginian for everyday life.
Around 950, A prophet in Persia calling himself “The New Zoroaster” established a syncretic Islamic/Zoroastrian religion called “Neo-Zoroasteranism”. This became the dominant religion of Persia.
By 1200, Christianity had spread into the Germanic lands, Poland, Finland, the Kola Peninsula, Hungary, Romania, Moldavia, and Ukraine west of the Dneiper. Simonistic Gnosticism had spread into the rest of IRL USSR west of the Volga. Islam was dominant in Ethiopia.
Thus, the four cultural regions of what was known as “The Greater West” were established: Hellenia, Arabo-Carthage, Idumea, and Persia. The Greater West had 5 major Abrahamic religions: Christianity, Simonist Gnosticism, Islam, Neo-Zoroasteranism, and Judaism.
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Re: The History of the Greater West

Post by Lambuzhao » 04 Dec 2016 05:43

Can the Greater West accomodate fully & continuously functioning Jewish Temples at Elephantine and Leontopolis in the Mizraim?

:wat:

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Re: The History of the Greater West

Post by Shemtov » 05 Dec 2016 02:06

Lambuzhao wrote:Can the Greater West accomodate fully & continuously functioning Jewish Temples at Elephantine and Leontopolis in the Mizraim?

:wat:
I haven't exactly worked out the exact Jewish sociological position in this altworld, though their position in the Christian and Islamic worlds is probably about the same as in the real timeline.
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Re: The History of the Greater West

Post by elemtilas » 05 Dec 2016 04:17

Shemtov wrote:Thus, the four cultural regions of what was known as “The Greater West” were established: Hellenia, Arabo-Carthage, Idumea, and Persia. The Greater West had 5 major Abrahamic religions: Christianity, Simonist Gnosticism, Islam, Neo-Zoroasteranism, and Judaism.
Wow! A most interesting timeline indeed! And it's not often one finds an otherworld with such a well thought out religious arena.

Do you have any of the Neo-Zoroastrian or Simonist texts worked out yet?

Also, how (or even does) Pauline Christianity differ here, given that it is the Greeks and not the Romans in charge of the big western Empire.

How is Islam same or different *there*? I know it was St. John of Damascus *here* who wrote of it as a Christian heterodoxy / heresy. Are relations *there* any different between Islam and Christianity?
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Re: The History of the Greater West

Post by Shemtov » 05 Dec 2016 06:34

elemtilas wrote: Also, how (or even does) Pauline Christianity differ here, given that it is the Greeks and not the Romans in charge of the big western Empire.
The Greek scriptures are very different, since Saul's epistles were written in a different context. For example, he placed less emphasis on the Resurrection, saying that Jesus' pre-second coming mission was not totally completed until the "The Vision at the Border town" (the equivalent of the Road to Damascus) given that the Harrowing of Hell took until then, and Resurrection was only a "reassurance to the faithful". Easter is thus almost a secondary holiday, with the main holiday being the anniversary of Saul's vision. Jesus' birth was also fixed on the same day as the Resurrection, instead of Dec. 25, however, Saul's vision actually took place on Dec. 25! Also, Saul incorporated a lot of Jewish Oral Tradition about the Hebrew Scriptural stories into Christianity, connecting his vision on Dec 25 to a Jewish tradition that Adam made that day a feast. based on this, there was popular heresy that held that the Oral Law was valid until "the curse of the law" was removed. Also, Revelations does not exist in it's IRL form at all, and there are in fact multiple Apocalypses in the Canon. The Christianity that established itself in the Pre-Islamic Carthaginian empire rejected the Trinity, and this variant began to penatrate Iberia C. 550, so Iberia and Southern Gaul are split between Trinitarians and an equivalent of Arianism (one might think of this as an early and more theologically charged equivalent to the IRL Catholic-Orthodox split). The Church was based out of Byzantium.
elemtilas wrote: How is Islam same or different *there*? I know it was St. John of Damascus *here* who wrote of it as a Christian heterodoxy / heresy. Are relations *there* any different between Islam and Christianity?
Islam was actually the starter of the equivalent of the Crusades, against the Simonists. This was based on a Hadith that Early Muslims took to mean that Simonists weren't really "people of the Book" but were "pretenders". This may have been influenced by political reasons, and the fact that Simon taught the "Jesus the Son" was a wholly separate god from "The Father", and that Mary Magdalene was "The Daughter of God", "Sophia" and "The Holy Ghost" and was married to Jesus, and was to be worshiped in her own right. There is actually a reference in the Simonist Scriptures to Jesus and Mary Magdalene forcing them selves into the Holy of Holies, stripping down the veil, and having "divine intercourse before all the people, proclaiming that they turn away from the Creator of this world, who did corrupt them from the time of the wicked Daniel, while they finished the act". They also believed that angels were the children of Jesus and Mary Magdalene, and could be worshiped "as long they were subordinated to their parents". This provoked some Christians to call Simonism "The Magdalenian Heresy"
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Re: The History of the Greater West

Post by Shemtov » 05 Dec 2016 08:50

The Simonist cosmology:
The Pre-Human Phase: In the beginning, there were two beings, The Father (A'av) and The Demiurge. The Father created a world, but the Demiurge (Avåre) entered it, and corrupted it, becoming its creator.
The First Paradise phase: The Father created the Garden of Eden (Gan Eden) and put Adam and Eve (Adham UHawå) in it. The Demiurge challenged the Father that Adam would not be loyal to him, so the All-Father allowed him to plant a tree in the garden. Adam ate of it, so he was cast into the world of the Demiurge.
The First Empty Phase: The Father had two child-gods, the Son (Avan) and the Daughter (Avath). Humanity became totally subjugated to the Demiurge except for Noah (No). The Father stormed into the Demiurge's world and flooded it, sparing Noah.
The Second Empty Phase: Humanity again became subjugated to the Demiurge except for Abraham.
The Rebellion Phase: Abraham, Isaac and Jacob (Abraham Yitshaq UYa'aqov) wished to rebel against the Demiurge, and thus the Father made a covenant with them that their children would lead humanity to accept the Son and the Daughter as a rebellion against the Demiurge.
The Law Phase: The Father gave Moses (Moshe) the Law (Atorå) as training for the coming of the Son and the Daughter. Sacrafices (Qorbanoth) were prescribed to "give strength" against the Demiurge by weakening his Archons (Rave Olåm).
The Corrupt Phase: The False Prophet Daniel (Dani'el Arasha) fused the Demiurge with the Father in people's minds. He edited the Prophecies of Jeremiah (Yirmi'å Ahalaf) to give credence to his prophacies.
The Restoration Phase: The Son and Daughter came as Jesus (Yeshu'a) and Mary Magdalene (Miri'åm Amigdol). Jesus died as an ultimate sacrafice (Aqorban Ahazaq Akhuli), that weakened the Archons to the fullest extent. Before that, he preached against Daniel's corruptions. After his death, he came to Saul of Tarsus (Sha'ul Atarsi) and laid out his message, but Saul did not understand.
The Knowledge Phase: The Son and Daughter came as Simon (Shimon Anavi) and his wife Batda'ath, who were born to Gnostics of Jewish descent. They established the principle of knowledge of the truth of the Father (Aysodh Adha'ath A'ameth A'av).
The Second Paradise phase: The Son and Daughter would come for a third time, to destroy the Demiurge and reestablish humans in the Garden of Eden.
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Re: The History of the Greater West

Post by elemtilas » 07 Dec 2016 01:31

Shemtov wrote:
elemtilas wrote: Also, how (or even does) Pauline Christianity differ here, given that it is the Greeks and not the Romans in charge of the big western Empire.
The Greek scriptures are very different, since Saul's epistles were written in a different context.
Makes sense, of course!
For example, he placed less emphasis on the Resurrection, saying that Jesus' pre-second coming mission was not totally completed until the "The Vision at the Border town" (the equivalent of the Road to Damascus) given that the Harrowing of Hell took until then, and Resurrection was only a "reassurance to the faithful". Easter is thus almost a secondary holiday, with the main holiday being the anniversary of Saul's vision. Jesus' birth was also fixed on the same day as the Resurrection, instead of Dec. 25, however, Saul's vision actually took place on Dec. 25!
Curious indeed! (But I guess also to be expected.) Is there some parallel feast akin to Sol Invictus / Nativity of Mithras on 25 December *there* that can help with the transition from Jewish tradition to Christian festival as there was *here*?

It sounds like Paul is much more central in this tradition than even he is in Christianity *here*. Is this so, or am I misreading? What is his role *there*?
Also, Saul incorporated a lot of Jewish Oral Tradition about the Hebrew Scriptural stories into Christianity, connecting his vision on Dec 25 to a Jewish tradition that Adam made that day a feast. based on this, there was popular heresy that held that the Oral Law was valid until "the curse of the law" was removed. Also, Revelations does not exist in it's IRL form at all, and there are in fact multiple Apocalypses in the Canon. The Christianity that established itself in the Pre-Islamic Carthaginian empire rejected the Trinity, and this variant began to penetrate Iberia C. 550, so Iberia and Southern Gaul are split between Trinitarians and an equivalent of Arianism (one might think of this as an early and more theologically charged equivalent to the IRL Catholic-Orthodox split). The Church was based out of Byzantium.
All very interesting! Have you worked out any of the Christian scriptures yet?
elemtilas wrote:How is Islam same or different *there*?
Islam was actually the starter of the equivalent of the Crusades, against the Simonists.[/quote]

So, not a lot different then! At least in that matter.
This was based on a Hadith that Early Muslims took to mean that Simonists weren't really "people of the Book" but were "pretenders". This may have been influenced by political reasons, and the fact that Simon taught the "Jesus the Son" was a wholly separate god from "The Father", and that Mary Magdalene was "The Daughter of God", "Sophia" and "The Holy Ghost" and was married to Jesus, and was to be worshiped in her own right. There is actually a reference in the Simonist Scriptures to Jesus and Mary Magdalene forcing them selves into the Holy of Holies, stripping down the veil, and having "divine intercourse before all the people, proclaiming that they turn away from the Creator of this world, who did corrupt them from the time of the wicked Daniel, while they finished the act". They also believed that angels were the children of Jesus and Mary Magdalene, and could be worshiped "as long they were subordinated to their parents". This provoked some Christians to call Simonism "The Magdalenian Heresy"
Simonism sounds pretty fringe!, all things considered. What are some theological / doctrinal differences between Islam *there* and *here*? If any!
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Re: The History of the Greater West

Post by quixoticxenoglot » 07 Dec 2016 17:29

This all is very cool! I'm really conceptually fond of Simonism, not only for its strangeness, but also because Mary Magdalene being an object of worship is far better than our world's Catholic Church casting her as a whore. I just wanted to mention that a political union between South Arabia and Carthage on the sole basis of shared religion seems a little unlikely, as does Carthage seemingly being the junior partner in that union. Also: what of Egypt? I'd assume it's Carthaginian, what with missionaries only having to cross the Red Sea to enter Carthaginian lands, but how did that come to pass? And are there any *Copts?

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Re: The History of the Greater West

Post by Shemtov » 08 Dec 2016 02:13

secondmoonofuranus wrote:. I just wanted to mention that a political union between South Arabia and Carthage on the sole basis of shared religion seems a little unlikely, as does Carthage seemingly being the junior partner in that union.
Now that I think about it, they aren't really one empire; they are more like two empires with a shared army, though The Caliph of The Arabian Caliphate does have a lot of political influence over the Carthaginian emperor given his religious status (though he is also known as the Amir of Arabia- sort of like how the IRL Pope of the Catholic Church is also the King of VC), and the Caliph, as Amir, has an advisor known as the Grand Sheikh, who is a go-between between him and the Carthaginian Emperor, and the Emperor has a similiar advisor known as the Mufti Shofeṭ. Certain members of the Amir's court are required to know Punic, and almost all Carthginians are bilingual Arabic speakers for religious reasons. The Emperor and the Amir often style themselves as "Co-Regents of The Arabs and Carthage" for military purposes, as they believe that such language makes them more intimidating to enemies.
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Re: The History of the Greater West

Post by Shemtov » 08 Dec 2016 03:07

elemtilas wrote:
It sounds like Paul is much more central in this tradition than even he is in Christianity *here*. Is this so, or am I misreading? What is his role *there*?
He is considered "The Apostle that recieved". There version of Acts, Matthias's replacement of Judas was only temporary, and after his vision Saul became the 12th Apostles, "but Matthias did prevent the other apostles from seeing the truth through his jealousy, and thus it is said: They replaced Judas with Judas." Officialy, he is considered to have been co-Pope with Peter, this situation only being allowed, in the words of one Pope "for Jesus did not wish to shame Peter by demoting him in Saul's vision." Later theologians claimed that this meant that if Peter was demoted, he would not have allowed Saul to be sole authority, and such a rebellion would have lost Peter his sainthood (other, more extreme theologians even say his entry into heaven!) which G-d and Jesus didn't want to happen.


elemtilas wrote:
Curious indeed! (But I guess also to be expected.) Is there some parallel feast akin to Sol Invictus / Nativity of Mithras on 25 December *there* that can help with the transition from Jewish tradition to Christian festival as there was *here*?

One church father notes "The fact that many pagans had a feast on that day, and preserved Adam's feast, is a sign from G-d pointing to the coming of the New Testament unto the Gentiles."
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Re: The History of the Greater West

Post by Shemtov » 08 Dec 2016 03:43

secondmoonofuranus wrote:This all is very cool! I'm really conceptually fond of Simonism, not only for its strangeness, but also because Mary Magdalene being an object of worship is far better than our world's Catholic Church casting her as a whore.
Her IRL whore status was actually an inspiration for her place in Simonism, as IRL Gnostics believed that the Son's mission was to find "Sophia" "The Daughter" and there was one IRL Gnostic "Messiah" who identified "Sophia" as being a whore in a brothel in Tyre. IRL Gnostics were even weirder then my Simonists. They believed the G-d of the Hebrew Scriptures was in fact Satan, and that The Son's father was The Jewish G-d's enemy (thus Simon of Gaza admitting that the Jews started to worship Satan from the time of Daniel). Because they saw the Satan of the Jewish Bible as being a good guy, they tried to imitate the eating of the tree of life- and IIRC there was one IRL sect that said that "eating of the tree of life" was code for "Eve fellating Adam and feeding him his semen" so their ceremonies had a lot of eating semen (though this may have been something the Church made up to defame Gnostics, plus the reference is kind of vague, so historians admit they may be reading it wrong)!
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Re: The History of the Greater West

Post by Shemtov » 26 Dec 2017 07:30

Neo-Zoroastrianism was founded in 948 by a man calling himself Nog Zardosht (The New Zoroaster), who had contact with Muslims in Persia, and was impressed with the declaration of "lā ʾilāha ʾillā llāh", claimed prophesy from Ahura Allah.He was also influenced by Christianity and Judaism. He claimed that exactly 4000 years ago, the world was created by Allah, who created Aadam and Yazatas, or angels. He ordered all the Yazatas to bow to Aadam, but one, named Iblis, refused and was sent into "the pit" and renamed Ahriman. Ahriman had supporters among the Yazatas, who lifted him out of the pit, and became known as Daivas. Aadam wept, and Allah declared that this was his plan all along, to test the descendants of Aadam, and let Ahriman Iblis introduce evil and death, and said so that Mankind would not be tempted to worship the false god Ahriman Iblis, he would be known as Ahura Allah, Lord Allah.

However, Mankind began to follow Ahriman Iblis, but one man, Ibrahim, recognized Ahura Allah, and was given Ahura Allah's Sacred Flame. He had two sons, each the only one of his two wives, (Hajar and Sara) Ishma'il and Is'hak. He took a third wife, Ketura, who had many sons. Fearing that Ketura's many sons would make people think that their were many gods, he exiled them to the east. One of them was named Zardosht, who received Ahura Allah's word as the Avesta. However, Zardosht's followers put to much emphasis on the role of Ahriman Iblis and corrupted the Avesta. Is'hak's descendants were exiled to Egypt (Esau and Jacob are missing), and were freed by one of his descendants, Musa, who gave the the Torat-Scriptures. However, the descendants of Is'hak didn't put enough emphasis on Ahriman Iblis and corrupted the Torat.

Some time later, a woman named Maryam was born to the descendants of Daawuud, the King of the Is'hakites. She spoke at birth, saying "I will be a virgin forever, yet I will conceive by a Prophet named Yahya." When she reached puberty, a man named Pandera, a Greek delegate to Idumea tried to rape her, but she was saved by Ahura Allah.Again, Ahriman Iblis possessed an otherwise righteous Is'hakite man, Yusuf Dorgar, Joseph the Carpenter, who tried to rape her, but he was killed by his brother, The Prophet Yahya. They heard Ahura Allah's voice "Sleep, you two in one room tonight." They did so, and were awakened by a wind. At that point Yahya's semen shot out of his penis, yet he felt no pleasure, and entered Maryam's virgin vagina. They thus had a son, Isa. Isa received the word of Ahura Allah as the Injil, and was appointed the Masih, the teacher of the non-Ibrahamites, and future teacher of Saoshyant, the Savior. Ahura Allah took him up to heaven, and the Greeks corrupted the Injil "In the same way as the followers of Zardosht, yet even worshiping Isa."

Later, a Prophet arose among the Isma'ilites, named Mohammad, who received the Ko'ran. However, this too was corrupted "In the same way as the Torat".

Nog Zardosht, a patrimonial descendant of Zaedosht received the Mazda-e Namak, "The Book of Wisdom".

Neo-Zoroasterians believed that a Final Prophet, Saoshyant, will be born. Isa will descend and teach him much. His preaching will lead to a united humanity casting off Ahriman Iblis, whom Ahura Allah will destroy.
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Re: The History of the Greater West

Post by eldin raigmore » 26 Dec 2017 20:56

Huh! Interesting!

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Re: The History of the Greater West

Post by Shemtov » 27 Dec 2017 05:33

The structure of the Mazda-e Namak:

Like the Qu'ran, the Mazda-e Namak is divided into Surats (Nog Zardosht seemed to misrender "Surah" into Persian), of which there are 49.

The first one is Aghaaze Surat, which corresponds to the Qu'ran's Fatiha. It is short:
Praise be to Ahura Allah, creator of all things. May he distance us from the Temptation, Ahriman. We know and proclaim that there is no G-d but Ahura Allah, and he is one and not of parts, and Iblis Ahriman is still under his control, and must not be worshiped, neither he or his Daivas and that Ahura Allahchose the seed of Ibrahim, and sent his word through Zardosht, Musa, Isa, and Mohamed, but their message was corrupted, and the True Word is that of Nog Zardosht.
That last long sentence (from "We know...." until the end) is the Neo-Zoroastrian equivalent of the Muslim Shahada, and variants of it appear throughout the Mazda-e Namak. Like the Shahada, saying it three times in front of two male adult Neo-Zoroastrians means one is a member of the community of Neo-Zoroastrians.

The next five Surats are known as the "Foundation Surats", which are the first five revelations of Nog Zardosht. They are:
1. Ahura Allah: Discuses the creation, the "fall" of Iblis, Ibrahim, the lives of the "first four prophets" (note that in Isa's life, his birth, and all mention of Maryam are left out, beginning with "As for Isa: His father Yahya bathed him when Isa was 30.")and how their texts were corrupted.
2. The Believer: Discusses ritual worship
3. Brotherhood: Discusses human interaction; differentiates between those "Of the Community" the "People of the Corrupted Books" and "Infidels".
4. The Soul: Discusses reward and punishment; Expounds on the nature of Ahriman Iblis ; Discusses the afterlife. (This Surat is read by the father of a newborn child on the first public Jamiya- Friday- service after his wife gave birth, and at funerals.)
5. Masihad Saoshyant: Discusses the Nativity of Isa, his "Fake Death", the coming of Saoshyant, and Isa's teaching of him.

Then comes the "Death Surat" which was Nog Zardosht's final revelation. It is placed here because it comes to confirm the Truth of every Surat of the Mada-e Namak, and its order.

After the "Death Surat" are the "42 Occasional Surats", which were revelations granted to Nog Zardosht between the giving of "Masihad Saoshyant" and the "Death Surat", which were directed to specific problems of "The Community". They are arranged in order of length, though each begins with the date it was received.
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Re: The History of the Greater West

Post by spanick » 29 Dec 2017 18:21

This is all quite interesting. How does Judaism differ in this world than it does now? Has the Second Temple been destroyed? Without the destruction of the temple and the subsequent disappearance of the Sadducees, does Rabbinical Judaism as we know it still exist?

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Re: The History of the Greater West

Post by Shemtov » 29 Dec 2017 18:57

spanick wrote:
29 Dec 2017 18:21
This is all quite interesting. How does Judaism differ in this world than it does now? Has the Second Temple been destroyed? Without the destruction of the temple and the subsequent disappearance of the Sadducees, does Rabbinical Judaism as we know it still exist?
I refer you to the OP:
69 CE, the Idumeans destroyed Herod's Temple after a Jewish Insurrection. The Jerusalem Church was also crushed.
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Re: The History of the Greater West

Post by spanick » 29 Dec 2017 19:02

Shemtov wrote:
29 Dec 2017 18:57
spanick wrote:
29 Dec 2017 18:21
This is all quite interesting. How does Judaism differ in this world than it does now? Has the Second Temple been destroyed? Without the destruction of the temple and the subsequent disappearance of the Sadducees, does Rabbinical Judaism as we know it still exist?
I refer you to the OP:
69 CE, the Idumeans destroyed Herod's Temple after a Jewish Insurrection. The Jerusalem Church was also crushed.
My bad, I must've skipped over that.

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Re: The History of the Greater West

Post by Thrice Xandvii » 30 Dec 2017 09:10

@Shemtov: Dumb question... why do you not spell out God when you write it?
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Re: The History of the Greater West

Post by Shemtov » 31 Dec 2017 02:34

Thrice Xandvii wrote:
30 Dec 2017 09:10
@Shemtov: Dumb question... why do you not spell out God when you write it?
Religious reasons. The name of the Abrahamic G-d in any language is sacred (meaning I probably should write "Allah" as "Al-lah", but there's no precedent, looks weirder and thus less understandable, and some people might take it as a slight at Islam) and should not be put in the trash. It started out for non-sacred printed and handwritten materials, but spread to the net as a. practice, so we don't forget when writing or printing out stuff we've written and. b. in the unlikely case someone thinks its a good idea to print out this thread and throw the name in the trash. The omission of the <o> was probably inspired by the fact that Hebrew is an abjad, and has nothing to do with "the vowels of the Tetragrammaton [sp?] being unknown" and thus being "an overextension [sic]" to apply in English, as some have suggested (which I've been to PM a mod about that user, to explain it to him, but this post explains it, I guess.)
Many children make up, or begin to make up, imaginary languages. I have been at it since I could write.
-JRR Tolkien

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Shemtov
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Re: The History of the Greater West

Post by Shemtov » 21 Feb 2018 20:15

Differences between the NT "There" and IRL:
Acts is obviously different. The end of Chapter 15 mentions that Barnabas wished to preach to the Carthagians, as Cyprus was split between the Idumeans, the Hellenics, and the Carthaginians. Between IRL 16:5 and 16:6, Saul goes to Byzantium, the capital, where he is imprisoned. There, he receives the vision to go to Macedonia, which he does, after "an angel in the form of an Archon from Antioch of the Hellens came to the King and said 'I have heard from the Jews in my place that there is no wrong in this man; he speaks only peace.'"
Saul's imprisonment in Beterodos (Ceaseria) is obviously different. He is given a paper by an angel saying he is friends with the Hellenic King, that the said King is a Crypto-Christian and that to kill him would risk war with the Hellens. "Ye, though this a lie, Jesus has permitted it to you; You must return to Byzantium; This is not your time". He is kept in Beterodos for three years, given Idumean bureaucracy. When he is released to Byzantium, he is put under house arrest, paralleling the IRL Roman House Arrest.
There is of course, no Epistle to the Romans, instead there is I and II Byzantines, which contain much of the content of IRL Romans. There is also an Epistle To the Athenians, and one to the Alexandrians, converted by Barnabas where "Saul" gives them two choices: Be martyrs or go to the Hellens, as "The heart of the Gentiles is the Hellens; Christ has told me that it is not time for his name to be mentioned in Carthage; soon it will be lost from Idumea." However, this is not a real "Sauline" Epistle, written later by an anonymous author, after the Massacre of the Alexandrian Christians, and the Dissolution of the Jerusalem Church, to increase morale among the then-persecuted Hellenic Churches.
There are three Revelations in "Their" NT: The Revelation to St. John the Divine, which is missing the first three chapters, the "Number of the Beast" and has a very different view of the "Whore of Babylon", The Revelation to the Apostle Saul, which records what he supposedly saw and heard at the "Vision at the Border Town", and The Revelation and Confession of Judas the Accursed, where Jesus appears to Saul during his House Imprisonment, and Shows him the soul of Judas in Hell, who confesses his sin, but to no avail, and then points out places in Hell, to which Saul is guided by Jesus; It may be seen as a Canonical version of Dante's Inferno.
Many children make up, or begin to make up, imaginary languages. I have been at it since I could write.
-JRR Tolkien

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