(EE) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

What can I say? It doesn't fit above, put it here. Also the location of board rules/info.
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Re: (EE) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by eldin raigmore » 04 Dec 2017 23:45

shimobaatar wrote:
30 Nov 2017 21:52
Are you saying you're going to make one?
No; I was only looking for one.

shimobaatar wrote:
30 Nov 2017 21:52
eldin raigmore wrote:
30 Nov 2017 19:33
Also: We don't have a Hangeulization Thread. Wouldn't we like one?
We have this thread.
Thanks!

Creyeditor wrote:
01 Dec 2017 12:51
I would post random sound change ideas in the thread you called "Random Phoneme-Inventory Thread", because I understand its title more like "random phonology ideas".
Thanks!

----------

Where would be the best place to go, to learn about how sound-changes work, and which ones are most likely, and so on?

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Re: (EE) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by eldin raigmore » 08 Jan 2018 23:48

Questions about favorite words (or sayings) of children at various ages.
This will be asked in English, but I assume readers will know of some other natlang examples.

Before I was a father, I thought a two-year-old's favorite word was "NO!";
and a three-year-old's favorite word was "MINE!";
and a five-year-old's favorite word was "Why?" (Or "How come?" or "What for?" or other quasi-synonyms);
and a tween-ager's favorite utterance was "It's not fair!".

However, at a certain age -- single digits, but older than five, but I don't remember exactly when --
it seems my daughter's favorite assertion was "I don't need no help!".

(1) Anyone have an idea at what age a typical child says "I don't need no help" (or the equivalent) notably often?
(2) Are there parallel remarks that are the favorites of children speaking other languages?

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Re: (EE) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by shimobaatar » 09 Jan 2018 00:24

Is there any scientific evidence that those are children's "favorite words" at certain ages? To me, those just sound like stereotypes.

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Re: (EE) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by Axiem » 09 Jan 2018 02:22

My five-year-old doesn't actually ask "why" questions very often, but she does ask a lot of questions. Often repetitious. Often things she could answer for herself if she just shut up and listened to what was going on five seconds earlier. But not very often starting with "why". She also likes shouting "it's not fair!" when my spouse or I discipline her for (what we consider to be) very reasonable reasons.

Likewise, I don't recall a "mine" phase for either of my children who have been (/are) three, or a "no" phase for my children who have been two.

Meanwhile, my three-year old has since he was two frequently insisted on doing things "by self", however much longer it takes.

So I have no idea where those stereotypes even come from. It sounds like something said by someone who's never had kids.
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Re: (EE) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by Thrice Xandvii » 09 Jan 2018 08:58

I could be wrong, but it seems to me that Eldin isn't asserting that any of those phrases are always, or have to be, said by children at the listed (or any specific) ages per se, but is instead attempting to give some setting information for discussing some early repetitive phrasing of children based on anecdotal or "old-wive's tail"-type information.

As such, I don't really recall my brother having any catch phrases like those when he was in the single-digit and over age brackets. I mean, I remember things I said to him (I'm 12 years older than him) but I don't really remember any particular phases like are described above. I'd have to talk to my mother to get info on myself or my brother since I really don't recall.
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Re: (EE) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by eldin raigmore » 10 Jan 2018 00:42

shimobaatar wrote:
09 Jan 2018 00:24
Is there any scientific evidence that those are children's "favorite words" at certain ages?
I don't know of any.
shimobaatar wrote:
09 Jan 2018 00:24
To me, those just sound like stereotypes.
I'm sure the details are just stereotypes. But I think it may be that these are among the favorite phrases of many children at certain stages of development -- whatever the actual ages should be.
That said, my OP shows that, as far as my own experience with the two children I helped raise (my god-daughter and my daughter), I found other oft-used phrases a little more common than these "stereotypical" ones.

Axiem wrote:
09 Jan 2018 02:22
My five-year-old doesn't actually ask "why" questions very often, but she does ask a lot of questions. Often repetitious. Often things she could answer for herself if she just shut up and listened to what was going on five seconds earlier. But not very often starting with "why".
I've heard/read it theorized that kids' favorite follow-up question is likely to be the one that, in their experience, gets the longest response from the adult -- or from adults in general, maybe. This theory says that the kids are still learning speech, and want to elicit a lot of input.
Axiem wrote:
09 Jan 2018 02:22
She also likes shouting "it's not fair!" when my spouse or I discipline her for (what we consider to be) very reasonable reasons.
I'm pretty sure "Not fair!" doesn't have to wait until double-digits. It just seems that from second-hand accounts, it comes to the fore of some folks' offsprings' utterance corpus, around the ages of ten to fifteen, or something like that. I don't recall it happening with my own daughter, though.
Axiem wrote:
09 Jan 2018 02:22
Likewise, I don't recall a "mine" phase for either of my children who have been (/are) three,
My daughter was 17 when her mom died; it was then that she started (in effect) saying "mine" a lot.
Axiem wrote:
09 Jan 2018 02:22
or a "no" phase for my children who have been two.
When my goddaughter was about two, she became very insistent on getting things done her way, and very upset when adults didn't understand what she wanted. I think it was more about the frustration of failing to communicate than anything else.
Axiem wrote:
09 Jan 2018 02:22
Meanwhile, my three-year old has since he was two frequently insisted on doing things "by self", however much longer it takes.
Like my daughter! But a different age.
Axiem wrote:
09 Jan 2018 02:22
So I have no idea where those stereotypes even come from. It sounds like something said by someone who's never had kids.
I don't know where they come from, either. Also, I found my experience with child-raising varied from those stereotypes (if that's what they are) somewhat.

Thrice Xandvii wrote:
09 Jan 2018 08:58
I could be wrong, but it seems to me that Eldin isn't asserting that any of those phrases are always, or have to be, said by children at the listed (or any specific) ages per se, but is instead attempting to give some setting information for discussing some early repetitive phrasing of children based on anecdotal or "old-wive's tale"-type information.
That's right.
Thrice Xandvii wrote:
09 Jan 2018 08:58
As such, I don't really recall my brother having any catch phrases like those when he was in the single-digit and over age brackets. I mean, I remember things I said to him (I'm 12 years older than him) but I don't really remember any particular phases like are described above. I'd have to talk to my mother to get info on myself or my brother since I really don't recall.
Every child I've ever known well enough, has had several catchphrases, different ones at different ages.
(Except I don't remember me ever having any. But my siblings might remember some!)
Kids' catch-phrases don't usually make much sense, IME.
I think the old-wives'-tale sort of sums up favorites of many children. Any particular child's personal favorite might not be that.
I also think the ages given are probably stand-ins for something more accurate but less precise.


Anyway: Are there others? Has anyone else heard or read anything else? Are there near-equivalents in any other languages?

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Re: (EE) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by Lambuzhao » 21 Jan 2018 15:18

eldin raigmore wrote:
08 Jan 2018 23:48

However, at a certain age -- single digits, but older than five, but I don't remember exactly when --
it seems my daughter's favorite assertion was "I don't need no help!".

(1) Anyone have an idea at what age a typical child says "I don't need no help" (or the equivalent) notably often?
(2) Are there parallel remarks that are the favorites of children speaking other languages?
No clue what age exactly.

But you remind me of a common trope in Spanish language commercials I have seen both in :per: and :usa:,

in which there's a young child (maybe 4-5 yrs old) who is supposed to demonstrate the ease of use of the product in question.
They will say something assertive like

La próxima vez lo hago solit@
DEF.F.SG next.F time.SG 3SG.M.OBJ do<PRS.1SG> alone.DIM.M/F
Next time I do it by myself

Yo lo hago solit@
1SG.SUB 3SG.M.OBJ do<PRS.1SG> alone.DIM.M/F
I'll do it by myself


One phrase my son loved to use in his 'inquiry stage' (4~6 yrs)was "Let's do X and see what happens".
He was a real scientist. An aggressive researcher, if you will. Do the detriment of snails, pillbugs, millipedes, spiders, wasps, bees and other creepy crawlies around the yard.
Surprsingly, not too many dinged noggins nor scraped knees.

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Re: (EE) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by LinguistCat » 21 Jan 2018 21:23

When I was very very young (maybe even earlier than 2) if I fell, I'd say "Nothing!" before getting up. My mom speculated that she kept asking me if anything was wrong so I got it into my head to say "nothing!" before she could ask to save time. Not sure if that logic holds but it's as good a guess for what was going on as any I have myself. I remember doing it because I think I kept it up til I was about 5 and I have some pretty strong memories still from that time, I just fell a lot less as time went on.

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Re: (EE) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by eldin raigmore » 25 Jan 2018 00:35

Lambuzhao wrote:
21 Jan 2018 15:18
One phrase my son loved to use in his 'inquiry stage' (4~6 yrs)was "Let's do X and see what happens".
He was a real scientist. An aggressive researcher, if you will. Do the detriment of snails, pillbugs, millipedes, spiders, wasps, bees and other creepy crawlies around the yard.
Surprsingly, not too many dinged noggins nor scraped knees.
[:)] [B)] [+1] [tick] Good for him!

My father used to say "All children are poets and philosophers and scientists.".
(I think it was Pinker? Could have been someone else.) who said: "All children are anthropologists, and the society they're studying is their family."?

Also; Thanks, LinguistCat!

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Re: (EE) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by eldin raigmore » 28 Mar 2018 20:09

Which is the correct English noun : —— “Tremendosity” Or “tremendousness”?
And why?

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Re: (EE) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by Dezinaa » 29 Mar 2018 01:44

eldin raigmore wrote:
28 Mar 2018 20:09
Which is the correct English noun : —— “Tremendosity” Or “tremendousness”?
And why?
New Oxford American Dictionary says "tremendousness."

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Re: (EE) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by eldin raigmore » 01 Apr 2018 00:08

Dezinaa wrote:
29 Mar 2018 01:44
eldin raigmore wrote:
28 Mar 2018 20:09
Which is the correct English noun : —— “Tremendosity” Or “tremendousness”?
And why?
New Oxford American Dictionary says "tremendousness."
Thanks!
Any idea why tremendosity is not a well formed word?

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Re: (EE) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by Xonen » 01 Apr 2018 01:26

eldin raigmore wrote:
01 Apr 2018 00:08
Dezinaa wrote:
29 Mar 2018 01:44
eldin raigmore wrote:
28 Mar 2018 20:09
Which is the correct English noun : —— “Tremendosity” Or “tremendousness”?
And why?
New Oxford American Dictionary says "tremendousness."
Thanks!
Any idea why tremendosity is not a well formed word?
There seems to be some discussion in the other thread where you asked the same question... As a rule, it might help if you only ask a question in a single thread; makes following the resulting discussion a bit easier for everyone.

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Re: (EE) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by eldin raigmore » 03 Apr 2018 19:27

Xonen wrote:
01 Apr 2018 01:26
There seems to be some discussion in the other thread where you asked the same question... As a rule, it might help if you only ask a question in a single thread; makes following the resulting discussion a bit easier for everyone.
Huh!😧 I didn’t even remember asking it twice!

(BTW your link took me to the right thread but the wrong post; 324 pages ago! But I found the correct post easily enough!)

Sorry, people!

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Re: (EE) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by eldin raigmore » 18 Apr 2018 07:33

What’s a better idea; rereduplication or reduplicationation?

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Re: (EE) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by shimobaatar » 18 Apr 2018 14:54

A better idea for what?

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Re: (EE) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by eldin raigmore » 18 Apr 2018 18:57

shimobaatar wrote:
18 Apr 2018 14:54
A better idea for what?
For conlanging.
For coming up with a con-linguistic phenomenon that is rare or unnamed in, or missing from, RL natlangs or RL linguistics.

Or for a name for a RL linguistic “thing” that doesn’t already have as catchy a label.

Or for fun.

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Re: (EE) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by shimobaatar » 18 Apr 2018 19:00

I'm not sure what it would describe, but "rereduplication" sounds better to me, personally.

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Re: (EE) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by eldin raigmore » 18 Apr 2018 19:09

shimobaatar wrote:
18 Apr 2018 19:00
I'm not sure what it would describe, but "rereduplication" sounds better to me, personally.
Me too.
If one applies reduplication to something that is already the result of reduplication, that might get called rereduplication.
It does happen IRL, and there is a legitimate question about it;
Does it result in something being said 3 times? Or 4 times?
In some natural languages the result is 3 consecutive instances of whatever; in other natlangs the result is 4 instances.
Then the next question is “Why?”.

OTOH for sheer fun “reduplicationation” sounds like something from a children’s educational TV show.

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Re: (EE) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by shimobaatar » 18 Apr 2018 19:36

For whatever it's worth, I've seen the term "triplication".

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