Conworlders' religious influences on conworlds

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Re: Conworlders' religious influences on conworlds

Post by elemtilas » 23 Jul 2018 23:47

Shemtov wrote:
23 Jul 2018 15:44
I'm just going to revert to the NCNC rule and say there's a specific reason in my religion that makes this situation different, and hasn't influenced my conworlds, so IMO, falls out f this thread's purview, and leave it at that.
Fair enough! Though I'd still be quite interested in learning how your understanding of Truth via Judaism shapes your perspective and philosophy of geopoesy and informs how you go about it. If it does at all! It's clear that you are well versed and deeply thoughtful of religious matters, and it shows in the facts you've revealed about the World of Fuhe et al. (And I'd also like to know about your "parody" of Christianity!) But what about the inner workings?
Dormouse559 wrote:
23 Jul 2018 21:51
To be clear, the CBB does not have a No Cross, No Crown rule as such. The relevant part of our forum policy is Rule No. 3, "Tread lightly around sensitive subjects".
I see --- "unwritten custom", then!
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Re: Conworlders' religious influences on conworlds

Post by Khemehekis » 27 Jul 2018 04:17

elemtilas wrote:
22 Jul 2018 14:53
Natural philosophy in The World is much more like science was here in the primary world before the secularists took control.
So like Aristotle's idea of science?
[:)] I actually would like living in a smial. Of course, it would have to be a damn sight taller than even Bag End to be comfortable! Much more like a Daine house!

I can see some echoes of Quakerism in the lives of Daine. Of course, having no concept of gods makes formal temple style worship and rites a bit difficult. They do make shrines of various kinds for meditation, and when people gather there it must seem a lot like a Quaker meeting. The silence I mean.

That's also very Catholic, the awed silence being in the presence of God.
"As quiet as a cathedral", or "as quiet as a nun's prayer!"

At Recovery Innovations today, I did some meditation with the group. We had music playing, with none of the people there speaking nor moving, and it was Daineësquely quiet meditation.
But really, after I made my first post, I was just expecting silence and for the thread to peter out untimely. I could wish for more introspection and focus on inner workings rather than a surface survey along the lines of "I find Shinto interesting so decided to make a constructed religion based on Shinto". At least for me, that doesn't really tell me much about the person's own religious influences! I mean, I'm interested in Buddhism and Islam and Judaism and Satanism and Shamanistic religions and Atheism and Hinduism and Zoroastrianism and Bahai and Mormonism and so on and so forth, and shades and reflections of all of these and many more can be found in The World. But that doesn't help illuminate the influence of my own beliefs and understanding.
That would be nice. I'd like to expand on how being a deist rather than one of the dime-a-dozen atheists has shaped the Lehola Galaxy.

As I said before, there is less scientism and atheism than on Earth. This partly reflects my not-always-Bright-like beliefs on what is real and what is scientifically possible.

In the negative second millennium on Kankonia, which was when the telescope, microscope and periodic table were invented and the Fibonacci sequence and Mersenne primes identified, the Poparanian Hyamitl proposed the Tederian Onion (yeskal Tederik). This was a legendary onion from the ancient city of Teder. The outer surface of this onion accounted for 90% of it, the second layer 9%, the third layer 0.9%, etc., and symbolized the idea that the simplest explanation will be correct 90% of the time, the second simplest explanation 9% of the time, the third simplest explanation 0.9% of the time, and so on. With sightings of anthoi (legendary blonde marine people on Kankonia who, it turns out, really didn't exist) and blonde people (really early visitors from other planets), there were questions about whether life beyond Kankonia (then referred to as Pilakh, or "the ground"), some of it not even human, really existed. Hyamitl used the Tederian Onion to argue that it was safest to assume extrakankonial life did not exist.

"Yeskal" (onion) has come to mean "epistemological razor" in Kankonian. One principle in use by Leholan scientists today is Adrasan's razor (yeskal na Adrasan in Kankonian), the principle that if an explanation requires something to be a huge coincidence, said explanation is probably false.

Metaxas applies this principle when he writes: "For example, astrophysicists now know that the values of the four fundamental forces—gravity, the electromagnetic force, and the 'strong' and 'weak' nuclear forces—were determined less than one millionth of a second after the big bang. Alter any one value and the universe could not exist. For instance, if the ratio between the nuclear strong force and the electromagnetic force had been off by the tiniest fraction of the tiniest fraction—by even one part in 100,000,000,000,000,000—then no stars could have ever formed at all." Particle physics uses a form of Adrasan's razor in its five-sigma (1-in-3,500,000 chance) standard.

Adrasan's razor could be said to be an argument for evolution: if not for Darwin's theory of evolution being true, then how would one account for Eohippus fossils under Orohippus fossils under Epihippus fossils under Mesohippus fossils under Miohippus fossils under Kalobatippus fossils under Parahippus fossils under Merychippus fossils under Hipparion fossils under Pliohippus fossils under Dinohippus fossils under Plesippus fossils under Equus fossils? I have heard people tell me to my face that this entire fossil record is just one giant coincidence. One Christian teen girl with whom I was arguing online in the nineties told me it was just my "opinion" that the fossil record couldn't be a coincidence. (Of course, there are other creationists who argue that God deliberately planted the fossils of creatures that never existed to test humans' faith, and then there's this guy, who argues that Satan plants "demonsaur" fossils in the ground to deceive humans. At least these people offer an explanation for fossils, and so do not violate Adrasan's razor.)
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Re: Conworlders' religious influences on conworlds

Post by Khemehekis » 27 Jul 2018 04:29

Had to google these quotes -- I've put them here for other people who don't know them offhand:
Shemtov wrote:
23 Jul 2018 01:05
Matthew 6:21
For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.
1 Corinthians 15:26
The last enemy to be destroyed is death.
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Re: Conworlders' religious influences on conworlds

Post by Khemehekis » 27 Jul 2018 04:35

Shemtov wrote:
23 Jul 2018 01:20
Dr. Asperger . . . worked with the Nazis.
I checked out Wikipedia, and it turns out it's true!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hans_Aspe ... nvolvement
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Re: Conworlders' religious influences on conworlds

Post by eldin raigmore » 27 Jul 2018 04:35

Wow, Khemehekis, that was a great read!

—————

As for Dr. Asperger;

Even assholes can sometimes be right, and even saints can sometimes be wrong.
It is wrong-headed to unjustly deprive a jerk of credit he has justly earned. If you do too much of that, people will think all of your negative criticisms of him/her are motivated by, or at least blinded by, malice.

Also recall that in a one-party dictatorship, the party gets to decide who a citizen associates with — the citizen can’t decide, and sometimes won’t even be consulted. I know most Austrians supported some form of the Anschluss, but only the Nazis were completely on board with how it happened; and I’m not sure Asperger was one of them.

A system of ideas many of which are bad can still contain some good ones. Don’t throw out the baby with the bath water.
Edit: Just to be clear; the acts mentioned in that Wikipedia quote were truly reprehensible.
Last edited by eldin raigmore on 27 Jul 2018 04:51, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Conworlders' religious influences on conworlds

Post by Khemehekis » 27 Jul 2018 04:39

eldin raigmore wrote:
27 Jul 2018 04:35
Wow, Khemehekis, that was a great read!
You mean the Hans Asperger article?
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Re: Conworlders' religious influences on conworlds

Post by eldin raigmore » 27 Jul 2018 04:54

Khemehekis wrote:
27 Jul 2018 04:39
eldin raigmore wrote:
27 Jul 2018 04:35
Wow, Khemehekis, that was a great read!
You mean the Hans Asperger article?
No! I mean your recentish longish post, in which you discuss that onion!
All of it (not just the onion) is food for thought!

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Re: Conworlders' religious influences on conworlds

Post by Khemehekis » 27 Jul 2018 05:24

Oh! Thank you, eldin! And I see you made a play on the word "onion", and the phrase "food for thought".
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Re: Conworlders' religious influences on conworlds

Post by eldin raigmore » 27 Jul 2018 15:59

Khemehekis wrote:
27 Jul 2018 05:24
Oh! Thank you, eldin! And I see you made a play on the word "onion", and the phrase "food for thought".
Not on purpose! But I noticed it as I was posting it, and decided to let it stand.

My mind, I think, works in puns. Even my serious ideas are pun-like.

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Re: Conworlders' religious influences on conworlds

Post by elemtilas » 27 Jul 2018 17:42

Khemehekis wrote:
27 Jul 2018 04:17
elemtilas wrote:
22 Jul 2018 14:53
Natural philosophy in The World is much more like science was here in the primary world before the secularists took control.
So like Aristotle's idea of science?
In part, yes. Though as much like Mendel and Mercalli and Lemaitre.
I can see some echoes of Quakerism in the lives of Daine. Of course, having no concept of gods makes formal temple style worship and rites a bit difficult. They do make shrines of various kinds for meditation, and when people gather there it must seem a lot like a Quaker meeting. The silence I mean.

That's also very Catholic, the awed silence being in the presence of God.
"As quiet as a cathedral", or "as quiet as a nun's prayer!"

At Recovery Innovations today, I did some meditation with the group. We had music playing, with none of the people there speaking nor moving, and it was Daineësquely quiet meditation.
Nice!
I'd like to expand on how being a deist rather than one of the dime-a-dozen atheists has shaped the Lehola Galaxy.

As I said before, there is less scientism and atheism than on Earth. This partly reflects my not-always-Bright-like beliefs on what is real and what is scientifically possible.

In the negative second millennium on Kankonia, which was when the telescope, microscope and periodic table were invented and the Fibonacci sequence and Mersenne primes identified, the Poparanian Hyamitl proposed the Tederian Onion (yeskal Tederik). This was a legendary onion from the ancient city of Teder. The outer surface of this onion accounted for 90% of it, the second layer 9%, the third layer 0.9%, etc., and symbolized the idea that the simplest explanation will be correct 90% of the time, the second simplest explanation 9% of the time, the third simplest explanation 0.9% of the time, and so on. With sightings of anthoi (legendary blonde marine people on Kankonia who, it turns out, really didn't exist) and blonde people (really early visitors from other planets), there were questions about whether life beyond Kankonia (then referred to as Pilakh, or "the ground"), some of it not even human, really existed. Hyamitl used the Tederian Onion to argue that it was safest to assume extrakankonial life did not exist.
Ah! I love that: Tederian Onion! Kind of like Occham's Razon, only much more delicious!
"Yeskal" (onion) has come to mean "epistemological razor" in Kankonian. One principle in use by Leholan scientists today is Adrasan's razor (yeskal na Adrasan in Kankonian), the principle that if an explanation requires something to be a huge coincidence, said explanation is probably false.
In Gea, natural philosophers would find the Onion on the one hand entirely intuitive and suitable to the task, but on the other, entirely incompatible with reality. The 90~9~0.9 metaphor is all well and good they say, but, delving deeper, the ninth simplest explanation accounts for the final 99% and, against all odds and sensibility is probably righter that the other explanations put together.

That's science in a nutshell: 90+9+0.9+...+99=100. [>_<] [O.O]
Metaxas applies this principle when he writes: "For example, astrophysicists now know that the values of the four fundamental forces—gravity, the electromagnetic force, and the 'strong' and 'weak' nuclear forces—were determined less than one millionth of a second after the big bang. Alter any one value and the universe could not exist. For instance, if the ratio between the nuclear strong force and the electromagnetic force had been off by the tiniest fraction of the tiniest fraction—by even one part in 100,000,000,000,000,000—then no stars could have ever formed at all." Particle physics uses a form of Adrasan's razor in its five-sigma (1-in-3,500,000 chance) standard.
In Gea, natural philosophers are aware of four basic forces: Love, Dwimmery (i.e. "deeper magics"), Affinity & Balance; and the againforces of each (not a force in opposition or lack, but an equal force understood from a different perspective, like darkness so deep you can begin to see your way around).


Love is the force of Creation and is more or less the glue that holds everything together (not just particles, but existence itself).

Dwimmery is the interaction of physical matter with streams and currents of thaumic particles. It affects other forces and physical entities and can even affect changes upon their natures.

Affinity is a polar force of attraction (gravity, e.g.) and repulsion (magnets): yin/yang or hanan/hurin.

Balance is the Ideal of Existence, where all the polar forces of affinity, disaffinity, love and magic are "in their appropriate states". The universe, at such times, is said to be at Rest.

They don't have numbers or "physical constants" to attach to these concepts. Some things are measurable, though. Going back to Chorography we read: Poseidon, the Rumeliard mathematician and astrologer who refined the optical device called telespeculon, thus allowing astrologers to better examine the surfaces of the planets, seeing them greatly enhanced, has measured the orbits of the Moons and also of Gea: the greater Moon orbits Gea at a distance of 83·498 1/3 leuyves and the lesser Moon at a distance of 181·042 leuyves; while Gea orbits the Sun at a distance of 1·586·468 2/3 leuyves. He has also measured the height at which the clouds move above the surface of the world, ranging between 52 and 104 stadia.

An interesting side note: it is a well known fact of natural philosophy that Selanna is the "greater Moon" of Gea (Wesara being the "lesser Moon"); but in reality this is incorrect, as Gea and Selanna are indeed twins (as the poets say, who've got the 99% of the onion nailed), as together they form a double planet. Natural philosophy also poo-poos the idea of a third Moon (na-Zolab), even though there are people who can, at times, see it quite clearly as it rises in the north and sets in the south.

Adrasan's razor could be said to be an argument for evolution: if not for Darwin's theory of evolution being true, then how would one account for Eohippus fossils under Orohippus fossils under Epihippus fossils under Mesohippus fossils under Miohippus fossils under Kalobatippus fossils under Parahippus fossils under Merychippus fossils under Hipparion fossils under Pliohippus fossils under Dinohippus fossils under Plesippus fossils under Equus fossils?
Gealogy is one natural philosophy that has received a lot of attention over the millennia. Although the animals are different, the basic idea is well understood:

Yeola (also known as Gea) is a planet with a complex geology. Rather than (semi)rigid plates floating upon (semi)liquid mantle, there are (semi)rigid plates upheld by vast stony Beings whose Purpose is to uphold and balance the plates of earth and keep the oceans from sloshing around too much.

For some, their function is to push up mountains. Kind of like a very slow vulcanism. Or perhaps a very fast tectonic process. A mountain range can thus arise and uplift within a few myriades of years. Likewise, should these Beings rest from their uplifting labours, those same mountains may subside again, though a curiously scarred landscape will be left behind.


These powerfuil Beings can also be ticked off:

Quite recently, a powerful mage in the Uttermost West of Hespera, one Jason Zionicus by name, sought to fulfill the desire of the Reman Pharaoh and open up a passage from the Outer Oceans to the rapidly evaporating Midworld Sea. You see, some years previously, one of those impish Beings had caused the western volcano called The Great Dragon to erupt and this filled the Pillars of Herklen with new wasteland. The result of Pharaoh's plan being put into action was that the great subsonic oliphants significantly irritated the Beings down below. In pain, some of them began to shake violently while other fell headlong. Up above, this spawned great earthquakes and a huge rift formed all along the valley from the Decapoleis all the way down into the Empire of the Axiomatics. Pharaoh got her wish of a "canal", but at the cost of great destruction and threats of war from every neighbouring empire.

Gealogers are also very aware of the layering of stones and of the "bones of mighty dragons and behemoths" as well as "liches of lesser more familiar beasts", as these layers are often exposed, either along river cuttings or due to the works of ancient craft. You can often find diligent philosophers out there scaling the rock faces, shiny bronze hammers and Turghun hair brushes in hand, tapping away at some interesting bit of rock.

They've been able to piece together many lineages in stone, and coupled with the lore of folk more ancient than Men, whose recollections have seen evolution in action, have come up with something not unlike our own understanding of changes in form over the long walk of generations. But, that 99% comes to play as well: it's not all smooth sailing on the placid Darwinian sea! Every now and then, and more frequently than a scientist from *here* would like, I'm sure, the rogue waves of Lamarck rise up and tip the boat. Even though things like genetic codes exist and interact with one another, there are external forces that may have their say. Sometimes it might be the vagaries of having sex in the vicinity of a thaumically active node or during a more intense wave blowing off from the deepest parts of Gea. Sometimes the results are pretty tame: a small population of purple eyed children arise among folks known for being grey eyed, for example. Sometimes a whole new species might arise: it's thought that this might account for the separation of wargs from their wolfish ancestors, back in the deeps of time.
I have heard people tell me to my face that this entire fossil record is just one giant coincidence. One Christian teen girl with whom I was arguing online in the nineties told me it was just my "opinion" that the fossil record couldn't be a coincidence. (Of course, there are other creationists who argue that God deliberately planted the fossils of creatures that never existed to test humans' faith, and then there's this guy, who argues that Satan plants "demonsaur" fossils in the ground to deceive humans. At least these people offer an explanation for fossils, and so do not violate Adrasan's razor.)
Yeah, well, not all Christians get along with science. I've had some wild conversations with Creationists as well. I'm of the opinion that (scientifically) what we see is what we get: fossils are there in the Earth, so there must be a reason. To go with the Onion: the 90% answer is "those were living animals from a long time ago whose bodies became fossilised (whether in rock or in amber)". The 9% answer in that, "yeah, it could be a random coincidence of the formation of rock deep within the Earth". The 0.9% answer is that God is a capricious ass who laced the Earth with random fossilised bones to trick people.

For me, the 99% answer is that fossils are just a manifestation of the wonder of Creation, tiny jewels & treasures that mutely reveal the nature of God's work from before there ever was an Earth or a universe for it to be in. All of these unexplained things are but calling cards, saying "use the brains I gave you and come find me!" It's all part of the great mystery of material existence and the great plan underlying it.

In The World, natural philosophers have chosen not the self-defeating road of scientism, which can never see more than it can see and never explain more than it can explain, but the road of I guess what you might call a theological science. When every aspect of existence points to its own fundamental nature as the work of the Creator, the 99% approach is to take the blinders off and look at the whole picture.
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Re: Conworlders' religious influences on conworlds

Post by elemtilas » 27 Jul 2018 17:59

Khemehekis wrote:
27 Jul 2018 04:35
Shemtov wrote:
23 Jul 2018 01:20
Dr. Asperger . . . worked with the Nazis.
I checked out Wikipedia, and it turns out it's true!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hans_Aspe ... nvolvement
Yep. I didn't want to make a bigger deal of it in my earlier reply regarding the "boycott of the 20th century", but if you dig deep enough you'll find that very many people, companies and government agencies either "worked with" the Nazis or "benefited from" the Nazis or "funded the work of Nazis" in some way. Whether it's NASA --- our space programs benefited greatly from Nazi work on rocketry because of Werner von Braum (and a shipload of other Nazi scientists); or Coca Cola --- because of Fanta; or the Carnegie Institute --- who funds not only Sesame Street & PBS, but also funded both American and German eugenics programs. It's a crazy world we live in!
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Re: Conworlders' religious influences on conworlds

Post by k1234567890y » 27 Jul 2018 19:01

People who have really had contributions can have dark sides.

Back to the topic. while in my conworlds there are people with biological immortality(e.g. free from aging) and some marginally scientific things like interstellar travelling through wormholes, I tend to do a more realistic approach in my conworlds, and I don't touch spiritual things like the existence of deities in my conworlds and the afterlife of my conpeoples, and only beliefs about deities and afterlife among my conpeoples may exist, therefore, if we can't meet a deity ourselves, conpeoples in my conworlds won't be able to, either. Although people who have reached biological immortality in my conworlds can sometimes be seen by others in the worlds as deities or demigods, that does not imply that they are.
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Re: Conworlders' religious influences on conworlds

Post by Shemtov » 28 Jul 2018 00:31

eldin raigmore wrote:
27 Jul 2018 04:35
Wow, Khemehekis, that was a great read!

—————

As for Dr. Asperger;

Even assholes can sometimes be right, and even saints can sometimes be wrong.
It is wrong-headed to unjustly deprive a jerk of credit he has justly earned. If you do too much of that, people will think all of your negative criticisms of him/her are motivated by, or at least blinded by, malice.

Also recall that in a one-party dictatorship, the party gets to decide who a citizen associates with — the citizen can’t decide, and sometimes won’t even be consulted. I know most Austrians supported some form of the Anschluss, but only the Nazis were completely on board with how it happened; and I’m not sure Asperger was one of them.

A system of ideas many of which are bad can still contain some good ones. Don’t throw out the baby with the bath water.
Edit: Just to be clear; the acts mentioned in that Wikipedia quote were truly reprehensible.
As I said, there is a specific religious objection to using the name of someone like him. I think we can leave this topic alone; I don't think there's anything else to say; this thread is already walking a fine line- any more discussion of this will risk the Mods closing it, IMO. I should not have brought up my objection; I should have considered that people might have different views, and that it is too politicized and religicized. I apologize.
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Re: Conworlders' religious influences on conworlds

Post by elemtilas » 28 Jul 2018 01:00

Shemtov wrote:
28 Jul 2018 00:31
I think we can leave this topic alone; I don't think there's anything else to say; this thread is already walking a fine line- any more discussion of this will risk the Mods closing it, IMO.
Hear hear! No need to apologise, but you're right: this part of the thread is really beyond the topic and should be ended!
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Re: Conworlders' religious influences on conworlds

Post by k1234567890y » 29 Jul 2018 15:46

Back to the topic:

I am now thinking to have a diversity of religions in my conworlds...including Abrahamic monotheistic ones(sorry if this offends some people here)
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Re: Conworlders' religious influences on conworlds

Post by KaiTheHomoSapien » 29 Jul 2018 17:48

elemtilas wrote:
27 Jul 2018 17:42
For me, the 99% answer is that fossils are just a manifestation of the wonder of Creation, tiny jewels & treasures that mutely reveal the nature of God's work from before there ever was an Earth or a universe for it to be in. All of these unexplained things are but calling cards, saying "use the brains I gave you and come find me!" It's all part of the great mystery of material existence and the great plan underlying it.
That sounds more like the Mantian perspective. Not that science has advanced very far in my conworld, but they wouldn't consider scientific discoveries a threat to their beliefs the way some people seem to; they would say that nothing will ever disprove the existence of the gods, that science is only a means of discovering the inner workings of the wondrous created world.

It's not as if religious beliefs never adapt either; in the Middle Ages, the Church position was that the sun revolved around the earth and to say otherwise was heresy that contradicted the Bible. No one seems to claim that anymore. Sometimes things undergo a bit of "reanalysis".
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Re: Conworlders' religious influences on conworlds

Post by Shemtov » 29 Jul 2018 21:52

elemtilas wrote:
23 Jul 2018 23:47
. (And I'd also like to know about your "parody" of Christianity!)
First you have to understand the "self-parody" of Judaism, Mikhonism:
So, basically it takes place in an altworld whose history is basically that of traditional Jewish history; ie. the Bible is a true account of events, which I do believe. A group of Greek Colonists get blown by a storm and are forced to winter in Ancient Israel around the time of the end of the Book of Judges and the beginning of the Book of Samuel. There they pick up Monotheism. They settle the Crimea. However, it becomes a state religion about 200 years later, when Photopuros leads a Revolution against his uncle, who worshiped the local deities. Photopuros revises history, so the first king of the empire and his ancestor, Mikhon, had a covenant with G-d (Theos) that his empire is "the chosen from the unchosen", that is, whoever participates in the covenant as a subject of the "House of Mikhon" has a mission to spread monotheism to the world, and that the "House of Mikhon" will serve as an "Intermediary" between "Yisaryel" (A corruption of Yisrael, the Hebrew name of Israel) and the "Rest of the unchosen" and that the non-royal participants will be "the Model" for the "Rest of the unchosen" when the Goilon (Messiah) comes. He also claimed his uncle was a rebel, who outlawed Mikhonism. He claimed to have discovered the Haigoghafos, the Mikohnic Scriptures, from exiled priests. The Haigoghafos consists of the "Five Mikhonic Books" in addition to later prophecies, as the Mikhonic Book of Laws said that any king of Minkhon's line may receive instructions to add a prophecy, or a historical tale, or a religious work by a layman to The Haigoghafos. It also gave sacrificial laws to the empire; but unlike Judaism, there are many Temples, one for each "Parish" (Yes, I borrowed the English term from the RC church, but the native term translates to "Ecclesiastical District"), with a central Temple, the only difference being that only certain rituals may be done there, by the Mikhonic King, who is a Priest; all other priests are his "representatives".

Around six hundred years later, a King named Timotheos sealed the Haigoghafos, saying that no more books may be added beyond his own three.

Two hundred years later, a priest named Yisaryel collaborated with his Parish Priest, Menalaos, to make it look that Yisaryel could do Miracles, and that there was no nation called "Yisaryel"; the references in the Haigoghafos was a metaphor for "the Chosen Soul", whom he is. He was come as the Goilon to convert the world to Monothesism, and in addition, free man of the ability to sin. He will live Immortal in his temple on Mt. Sion, which he claims is a mountain in the northern Caucasus, to where the empire extends. He and his followers march to the Capital, to correct the King of his "error" of a "Chosen Nation", and to declare Mt. Sion his personal Kingdom, until the "Last War", where he will fufill the mission of the Goilon. He picks up an abused slave, whom he buys, frees, and "miraculously educates" named Kuon, who is favorite disciple.He then gives "The Preaching of the Field" which I structured to parallel Matthew's Sermon on the Mount.

The King hears of him, and believes he is demanding the kingdom. Seeing this, Yisaryel flees with his followers to a mountain he claims is "Mt. Sion" where he builds his Temple. He and his followers hide there for five years. Then, one night, he tells Kuon and Menalaos that he will enter his Temple, which will be sealed and gaurded by them, to meditate that night. When he comes out, people see the King and his followers on the March, trying to retrieve the "rebel". When they arrive, the King listens to his defense, and says he and his followers will be brought back to the Capital for a Trial. However, they will begin to return the next day. Some advisors of the King, convinced of Yisaryel's guilt, convince the king to bind the fugitive to his temple's altar overnight. He gets permission to have Kuon to sit by his side, whom he tells "all will be right, no matter what happens". One of his guards from the King stabs his heart. When Kuon's screams awaken everybody, the King says that he sees no threat now that Yisaryel is dead, and leaves. His confused congregation Buries him beneath his altar.

Five days later,one of his followers who stayed based on what he told Kuon who is still on Mt. Sion. Arkheopsos, "finds" a some papers from Yisaryel in the Temple. He says he death was a good thing, as if the Mikhonic King cannot accept him, the world is not ready; furthoremore, the rejection means that Theos should have canceled the Mikhonic Covenant, but that his dying on the Altar served as "Sin sacrifice" for the Mikhonic covenant, that it will stay as long as some participants in said covenant belive in his sacrifice. He instructs his followers to, within five years, after a certain sign occurs to canonize "the Yisaryelan part of the Haigoghafos" which will consists of five books. He promises to return once a King "believes in Him". His followers are assesed by the King as being "Mikhonics who believe in a wrong interpretation of the Haigoghafos", which subjects them to extra Taxes, and possible lashes, if they don't pay up.
Many children make up, or begin to make up, imaginary languages. I have been at it since I could write.
-JRR Tolkien

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Re: Conworlders' religious influences on conworlds

Post by elemtilas » 30 Jul 2018 22:56

k1234567890y wrote:
29 Jul 2018 15:46
I am now thinking to have a diversity of religions in my conworlds...including Abrahamic monotheistic ones(sorry if this offends some people here)
I'm honestly not sure why you'd apologise or think having a diversity of religions in an invented world be the cause of offense!

What I am more curious about, though, is what influence do your own belief system(s) have on how you approach making a world or a culture!
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Re: Conworlders' religious influences on conworlds

Post by elemtilas » 30 Jul 2018 23:07

KaiTheHomoSapien wrote:
29 Jul 2018 17:48
elemtilas wrote:
27 Jul 2018 17:42
For me, the 99% answer is that fossils are just a manifestation of the wonder of Creation, tiny jewels & treasures that mutely reveal the nature of God's work from before there ever was an Earth or a universe for it to be in. All of these unexplained things are but calling cards, saying "use the brains I gave you and come find me!" It's all part of the great mystery of material existence and the great plan underlying it.
That sounds more like the Mantian perspective. Not that science has advanced very far in my conworld, but they wouldn't consider scientific discoveries a threat to their beliefs the way some people seem to; they would say that nothing will ever disprove the existence of the gods, that science is only a means of discovering the inner workings of the wondrous created world.
Exactly.
It's not as if religious beliefs never adapt either; in the Middle Ages, the Church position was that the sun revolved around the earth and to say otherwise was heresy that contradicted the Bible. No one seems to claim that anymore. Sometimes things undergo a bit of "reanalysis".
Sure. There's no denying it takes the Church a good long time to deliberate and chew over these kinds of things! The long and short of it, at least as far as the position of the Church in modern times vis a vis science and in light of our experiences with Creationism, as I understand it, is that what science can teach us is exactly what you say: the the working of the created world. They've long supported and funded scientific research and the history of science is replete with key figures who are not only scientists of the highest calibre but also monks, priests and theologians to boot.
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Re: Conworlders' religious influences on conworlds

Post by Shemtov » 31 Jul 2018 07:13

KaiTheHomoSapien wrote:
29 Jul 2018 17:48

It's not as if religious beliefs never adapt either; in the Middle Ages, the Church position was that the sun revolved around the earth and to say otherwise was heresy that contradicted the Bible. No one seems to claim that anymore. Sometimes things undergo a bit of "reanalysis".
Exactly. I'm using this to introduce a religious influence on the World of Fuhe. First off. Judaism never had an issue with Heliocentrism based on Joshua. This is based on the idea that "the Bible talks in the language of men" and is not a science book. Therefore "sun stops in the sky"= "it appeared to, and G-d didn't want Joshua to write down the Heliocentric model because that's not the point of his book". Some Kabbalists had issues, as the Zohar and The Sefer Yetzirah uses the Ptolemic model as a base for astronomy, but this was swiftly silenced by the fact that "Kabbalah is mysticism, so while Copernicus may be right on a physical level, that does not preclude Ptolemy being right on a spiritual one". Similiar accounts in the Talmud may be explained the same way, given that Kabbalah says that the Redactors hid Kabbalah in metaphor, so the unworthy will not understand, as the Talmud is not a Kabbalistic text.
Now, as for Creationism vs. Evolution/Big-Bang. There are two schools of thought. One patterns with Conservative Protestants, and calls Evolution and the Big-Bang "Heresy". There is a growing subschool that says evolution is real, but speciation isn't, and that species as defined by Judaism =/= species as defined by science, as a species defined by Judaism is "any group of organisms that can be traced to the Deluge in either 2105 or 2107 BCE, so all corvids are one species, as the Torah mentions "The ʕRB with its type" and the ʕRB has been identified as different kinds of corvids by different commentators, so "with its type" means that it had diversified to many scientific species by the time Moses wrote it down c. 1320 BCE.
The second school points to the Talmudic idea that "G-d created worlds and destroyed them" and that some of those universes contained humans. Many Kabbalists have offered models of how this process worked, however based on the Talmud, we must stay agnostic to which one is real, as that is hubris. However, one model works with science, saying the first universe was created around the time of the Big Bang, and that the universe before this one was created around the time of what Geologists and Paleontologists call the GOE. Therefore, to discuss these scientific concepts as real is permitted, as long as one thinks "if this model is the true one."
The first camp may be excused, as they don't learn Kabbalah until age 40, and then it is not a focus. In addition, they take the whole "Agnostic to which model is the real one" idea in an extremely radical fashion (not helped that when Dinosaurs were discovered, a Kabbalist went around ignoring that dictate, and trumpeting that Dinos "prove"
the model that works with science is real).
The World of Fuhe is based on the concept that a model that does not require humans on the current continents is real, and thus the WoF is speculation (though I know it to be untrue, even if such a model is the real one) of what that was.
Many children make up, or begin to make up, imaginary languages. I have been at it since I could write.
-JRR Tolkien

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