(Conlangs) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

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Re: (Conlangs) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by Dormouse559 » 16 Dec 2018 20:15

Cẅènyon wrote:
16 Dec 2018 16:43
Hello. I would want to be aware of what do you conlangers think of a conlang which marks diacritically vowels in syllables not belonging to the lexeme of a word, or shorter: should every declension in my conlang contain a diacritic over its vowel, in my case, a circumflex?
That's a question only you can answer. Why do you currently mark every declension with a diacritic? Does it indicate something about pronunciation? Does it disambiguate forms that would otherwise be homographs? Something else? If the reason is satisfying for you, then I don't see why not to keep doing what you're doing. Though, if you want to reduce the amount of diacritics in your orthography, there may well be ways. You've said you mark every non-lexeme vowel with a circumflex. Since whatever those circumflexes indicate applies to every non-lexeme vowel, you can probably do away with the redundancy of marking all of them. Why not just mark the first vowel of the first declensional ending (i.e. Cùivëasyêsselvorcyen)?
Cẅènyon wrote:And another question: can labial-palatalisation /ᶣ/ make a conlang sound a bit like mandarin chinese or other sinitic languages (just to avoid it in that case)?
On its own? No, I don't think it would. A language's distinct sound comes from the combined effect of all its phonological features. But of course, the only way to know for sure is to pronounce your conlang and judge for yourself.

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Re: (Conlangs) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by sangi39 » 16 Dec 2018 21:16

Something like:

/p pʷ (p) pʲ (tɕ) t tʷ tp tʲ tθ k kʷ kp kʲ tɕ/
/b bʷ (b) bʲ (ʑ) d dʷ db dʲ ð g gʷ gb gʲ ʑ/
/m mʷ (m) mʲ (ndʑ) n nʷ nm ndʲ ndð ŋ ŋʷ ŋm ɲ ndʑ/
/h~x hʷ f (hʲ >)ç (ɕ >)s/
/ɦ~ɣ w v (ɦʲ >)j (ʑ >)z/

Phonemes in parentheses show mergers, explaining current gaps, or that those sounds became other sounds in the case of a following ">".

The initial consonant inventory would be /p t k b d g m n ŋ h ɦ/, which doesn't seem too unreasonable, at least as something off the top of my head (Nortaneous' source has /p t k b d g s h m n ŋ r/ for Nimboran, for a close natlang example).

The labial-velars, labial-coronals, and "new" instances of labials would result from some sort of "fortition" of labialised consonants (likely before some original /u/ which was lost or shifted, resulting in the distinction becoming phonemic), with the simple labialised consonants in the final inventory having a similar, but more recent origin after this fortition (so you'd have /t/ > /tʷ/ which then shifted to /tp/, with this final shift followed by a new instance of /t/ > /tʷ/).

Similarly, alveolo-palatals and dentals would come from "fortition" of palatalised consonants (likewise likely before some original /i/), with the simple palatalised consonants in the final inventory having a similar, but recent origin after that fortition (so /t/ > /tʲ/ eventually leading to /tθ/, with a later instance of /t/ > /tʲ/).

One thing I'm not sure how to handle is what happens to, say, /kp/ if it appears in the condition that shifts remaining instances of /k/ to /kʷ/? Do they just not take part in that labialisation process, or do they only labialise allophonically, and once the conditioning environment is lost return to not being labialised, or do they labialise and remain labialised? Same fore the "strong" palatalised consonants.
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Re: (Conlangs) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by wintiver » 19 Dec 2018 17:29

Are there natural languages, or perhaps your own conlangs, that have separate phonotactics for monosyllables versus any other n-numbered syllables?

I'm thinking of allowing for a less restricted coda for monosyllables but for any other words there are less consonants allowed to occur in coda position. I was curious if that was naturalistic and I tried searching for it online and after wording my question half a dozen ways I am left scratching my head.

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Re: (Conlangs) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by eldin raigmore » 19 Dec 2018 19:32

wintiver wrote:
19 Dec 2018 17:29
Are there natural languages, or perhaps your own conlangs, that have separate phonotactics for monosyllables versus any other n-numbered syllables?

I'm thinking of allowing for a less restricted coda for monosyllables but for any other words there are less consonants allowed to occur in coda position. I was curious if that was naturalistic and I tried searching for it online and after wording my question half a dozen ways I am left scratching my head.
I believe I have seen Polish’s syllable-skeletons described as follows.
Monosyllables: Maximally (C)(C)V(C)(C)
Initial syllables: Maximally (C)(C)V(C)
Final syllables: Maximally (C)V(C)(C)
Internal syllables: Maximally (C)V(C)

In other words:
First syllables and only syllables can have onset clusters of up to two consonants;
Last syllables and only syllables can have coda clusters of up to two consonants;
All other onsets and codas can have at most one consonant.

Is that kind of what you were looking for?

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Re: (Conlangs) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by Pabappa » 20 Dec 2018 02:00

Wouldn't that just be simpler to state without mentioning the monosyllables, though? I don't think that's what the OP meant.

Any such language would likely have initial stress and a recent sound change deleting vowels in the 2nd syllable but no others. Even so, I suspect there might be none.
Sorry guys, this one has the worst sting.

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Re: (Conlangs) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by LinguoFranco » 20 Dec 2018 06:04

I read up on balancing and deranking verbs, and I think I understand the concept, but I want to ask you guys here to make sure I am understanding it correctly.

I think a deranked verb can occur in a dependent clause but not in an independent or main clause. So, does this mean that there would be to different verbs for the same thing? Let's say two verbs for "to eat." One would be the main verb occurring in an independent clause while the other is deranked, and can only occur in a dependent clause.

I did read the Wikipedia article and the chapter on WALS.

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Re: (Conlangs) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by wintiver » 20 Dec 2018 19:52

eldin raigmore wrote:
19 Dec 2018 19:32
I believe I have seen Polish’s syllable-skeletons described as follows.
Monosyllables: Maximally (C)(C)V(C)(C)
Initial syllables: Maximally (C)(C)V(C)
Final syllables: Maximally (C)V(C)(C)
Internal syllables: Maximally (C)V(C)

In other words:
First syllables and only syllables can have onset clusters of up to two consonants;
Last syllables and only syllables can have coda clusters of up to two consonants;
All other onsets and codas can have at most one consonant.

Is that kind of what you were looking for?
That is precisely what I was looking for. I knew words have differing allowances for initial, medial and final syllables (which you still beautifully illustrated) but I wasn't sure if any language treated them differently. This is precisely what I was hoping for as well. You, eldin raigmore are killing it, as always. Thank you.

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Re: (Conlangs) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by Vlürch » 21 Dec 2018 02:40

sangi39 wrote:
29 Nov 2018 00:50
One thing you could do is go down the route of Turkmen. Start out with /s z sˡ zˡ x ɣ xˡ ɣˡ/ then shift them all forward resulting in /θ ð θˡ ðˡ ʃ ʒ ʃˡ ʒˡ/, with /ʃˡ ʒˡ/ shifting further to /ɬ ɮ/. That would give you /θ ð θˡ ðˡ ʃ ʒ ɬ ɮ/ to work with, and then original /h/ could appear variously as [h] or [x] depending on context.
I know this is a kind of old post, but I just saw it now and since I posted on another forum about lateral fricatives earlier today... Turkmen has lateral fricatives? [:O] Maybe I suck at googling but I couldn't find anything about that, and while I've only heard Turkmen in songs and some videos on Youtube, I can't recall hearing any lateral fricatives. Are you sure you're not thinking of Khorasani Turkic? I mean, in the Wikipedia article on Khorasani Turkic, the phonemic inventory included /ɮ/ instead of /ʒ/, which has since been changed to /ʒ/ and was probably just an accidental use of the wrong unicode character, so even then it likely isn't accurate?

...or are you just saying that Ahzoh could do the same lenition in the conlang as Turkmen did in real life? If so, sorry if the above was annoying... not trying to be offensive; just trying to make sure I'm not an idiot who doesn't know the first thing about Turkmen phonology? [:S]

~

I know phonemic R-coloured consonants are (almost certainly) unattested and probably the only languages that ever have them at all are American English and Mandarin Chinese, but let's say a conlang had them and they caused adjacent vowels and the following consonant in consonant clusters to become allophonically R-coloured.

Since phonemically R-coloured consonants cause R-colouring of adjacent vowels, would the allophonically R-coloured consonants in clusters be likely to have the same effect on the following vowel? So, should eg. /omʴta/ become [oʴmʴʈa] or [oʴmʴʈaʴ]? I know there's no objectively correct answer, but which is hypothetically more naturalistic?

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Re: (Conlangs) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by Birdlang » 23 Dec 2018 17:25

I’ve decided to make a phonology for a romlang
/m n ɲ ŋ/
/p b t d k g/
/kʷ gʷ/
/f v θ ð s z ʃ ʒ ħ h/
/ʦ ʣ ʧ ʤ/
/j w/
/r/
/l ʎ/

/i y u e ø o ə ɛ œ ɔ a/
It’s spoken in my alternate history’s version of France, Spain and Portugal by descendants of the Moors and Arabs. That’s where the pharyngeal comes from.
I need help romanizing it. Can anyone help me romanize it? I’m trying to use both diacritics and digraphs.
Ꭓꭓ Ʝʝ Ɬɬ Ɦɦ Ɡɡ Ɥɥ Ɫɫ Ɽɽ Ɑɑ Ɱɱ Ɐɐ Ɒɒ Ɓɓ Ɔɔ Ɖɖ Ɗɗ Əə Ɛɛ Ɠɠ Ɣɣ Ɯɯ Ɲɲ Ɵɵ Ʀʀ Ʃʃ Ʈʈ Ʊʊ Ʋʋ Ʒʒ Ꞵꞵ Ʉʉ Ʌʌ Ŋŋ Ɂɂ Ɪɪ Ææ Øø Ð𠌜 Ɜɜ Ǝɘ

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Re: (Conlangs) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by Ghoster » 23 Dec 2018 18:50

I wonder

Could any of you tell me what conlangs (especially other people's from this forum or otherwise) are your absolute favorites and why?
Native: :pol:; Advanced: :usa: :chn: :nld:; Intermediate: :esp:; Lower intermediate: :deu: :rus: :fra: :nor:; Beginner: :jpn: :kor: :hkg:
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Re: (Conlangs) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by shimobaatar » 23 Dec 2018 21:27

yangfiretiger121 wrote:
06 Dec 2018 05:53
shimobaatar wrote:
05 Dec 2018 19:55
yangfiretiger121 wrote:
05 Dec 2018 18:01
Thanks for the info, guys. However, I gave the wrong preferred word order, which I should have caught when I put in the Yoda analogy. Thus, my conlang's native speakers tend to communicate in O/XSV order, as opposed to the previously stated V/XSO order. Yet another consequence of being slightly tired while making that post.
Well, default OSV word order is extremely uncommon among natlangs, being the least common unmarked order of the 6 basic types named after subject, object, and verb order (although OVS is only slightly more common), so there likely isn't very much information out there about any proposed tendencies associated with it. My gut feeling, so to speak, though, is that "object"-initial word orders might fit well with syntactically ergative languages that have the "object"/absolutive argument fronted due to the prominence they might assign to that role. However, according to the Wikipedia article on Warao, "[t]he language's basic word order has been analyzed as object–subject–verb, a very rare word order among nominative–accusative languages such as [this]", so if you want your language to be nominative-accusative and have default OSV word order, and you're worried about having a natural precedent, I don't think that should be a problem.
yangfiretiger121 wrote:
05 Dec 2018 18:01
A prior form of the lang had all the general local cases (ablative/lative/locative). However, the current lang consolidated to a single general local case. Is ABL, LAT, or LOC the most likely to survive the consolidation?
I can't think of a relevant example from the histories of any natural languages, but my first thought was that locative would be the most likely to survive, with the meanings of the other two cases coming to be conveyed through the use of the locative paired with verbs of motion and/or prepositions akin to "to" and "from". I think you could probably make any solution to this problem work, though. I'd like to invite anyone who might be able to give a natlang example to chime in.
Thanks again. As I mentioned in an earlier post, I've added the vowel [ə̹] (*ω) to the lang. While I'd, originally, planned on it being a highly-restricted allophone of [ɑ̟], I like your idea so much that I'm considering expanding its use to a combined "to"/"from" particle with N ω V meaning "to a place" and N V ω meaning "from a place." If I do this, is N ώ N V or N N ώ V, with [ə̹] → [ə̹ː] in lieu of the second particle, the more natural construction when saying from A to B?
Sorry it's taken me so long to respond to this. With the board being down a few times, and with schoolwork piling up, I got distracted.

If I understand correctly, you're going to have N ω V mean "(verb) to (noun)" and N V ω mean "(verb) from (noun)", and you're wondering how to express "(verb) from (noun)A to (noun)B"?

I could see the construction starting out as N ω N V ω, but you mentioned wanting to have the two instances of the ω particle combined as ώ, so the question becomes how that would be most likely to happen. I think that's hard for me to say, since it would likely depend on the syntax of the language in general. For example, would either N ώ N V or N N ώ V lead to potential ambiguities within larger sentences? Throughout the language, where are particles most commonly found in relation to nouns and verbs? I think questions like those should be kept in mind while you're deciding how to resolve this issue.

Vlürch wrote:
21 Dec 2018 02:40
I know phonemic R-coloured consonants are (almost certainly) unattested and probably the only languages that ever have them at all are American English and Mandarin Chinese, but let's say a conlang had them and they caused adjacent vowels and the following consonant in consonant clusters to become allophonically R-coloured.
What are the phonemic r-colored consonants in American English and Mandarin Chinese? Oh, do you mean the rhotics that can cause r-coloring on vowels?
Vlürch wrote:
21 Dec 2018 02:40
Since phonemically R-coloured consonants cause R-colouring of adjacent vowels, would the allophonically R-coloured consonants in clusters be likely to have the same effect on the following vowel? So, should eg. /omʴta/ become [oʴmʴʈa] or [oʴmʴʈaʴ]? I know there's no objectively correct answer, but which is hypothetically more naturalistic?
Based on the ways, for example, nasalization can spread, I think you could probably have it either way.

Birdlang wrote:
23 Dec 2018 17:25
I’ve decided to make a phonology for a romlang
[…]
It’s spoken in my alternate history’s version of France, Spain and Portugal by descendants of the Moors and Arabs. That’s where the pharyngeal comes from.
I need help romanizing it.
Without knowing more about the historical context and the development of the language from Vulgar Latin, it's hard to create an orthography that makes sense, in my opinion, but if you're just looking for suggestions for 1:1 phoneme to letter/digraph correspondences:

/m n ɲ ŋ/ <m n nh ng>
/p b t d k g/ <p b t d c g>
/kʷ gʷ/ <qu gu>
/f v θ ð s z ʃ ʒ ħ h/ <f v ṯ ḏ s z x j ḥ h>
/ʦ ʣ ʧ ʤ/ <ç dz ch dj>
/j w/ <y w>
/r/ <r>
/l ʎ/ <l lh>

/i y u e ø o ə ɛ œ ɔ a/ <i u ou é eu o e ai oe au a>

Ghoster wrote:
23 Dec 2018 18:50
I wonder

Could any of you tell me what conlangs (especially other people's from this forum or otherwise) are your absolute favorites and why?
Why do you ask?

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Re: (Conlangs) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by Reyzadren » 23 Dec 2018 22:32

Ghoster wrote:
23 Dec 2018 18:50
I wonder

Could any of you tell me what conlangs (especially other people's from this forum or otherwise) are your absolute favorites and why?
Some of my favourite conlangs from other people include Lortho (bbbourq) and Ayeri (Carsten Becker).

I like conlangs with extensive resources available, and also conlangs with non-abecedarian conscripts. More specifically, I like Lortho because it seems like an honest and down-to-earth language to me (it has just enough descriptions without being too linguistic). And, I like Ayeri because it incorporates some facets of trigger languages, of course.
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Re: (Conlangs) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by DesEsseintes » 24 Dec 2018 09:39

Ghoster wrote:
23 Dec 2018 18:50
I wonder

Could any of you tell me what conlangs (especially other people's from this forum or otherwise) are your absolute favorites and why?
Kiwikami’s Alál is my favourite conlang on this board. I love the aesthetic, it’s full of interesting ideas, and it is “gutsy” in that its creator has no fear of the unnatural (or the natural for that matter).

(By the way, wasn’t there a favourite conlangs thread somewhere?)

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Re: (Conlangs) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by LinguoFranco » 24 Dec 2018 17:14

Ghoster wrote:
23 Dec 2018 18:50
I wonder

Could any of you tell me what conlangs (especially other people's from this forum or otherwise) are your absolute favorites and why?
I don’t know if I have one, personally. I was kinda interested in Old Albic as it seemed very similar to what I was trying to do with an older conlanging project.

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Re: (Conlangs) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by Ahzoh » 24 Dec 2018 20:31

If y'all could do me a favor and give me some ideas of verbs that I could derive the swadesh list verbs from, using these derivation affixes:
https://conworkshop.com/view_article.ph ... e9f8910299

e.g. "stretch" + inchoative aspect > "swell" or "stab" + chaotive aspect > "split"

The verbs from the Swadesh list:

Code: Select all

gàc-	92	to drink
ḏākùd-	93	to eat
am-	94	to bite
	95	to suck
	96	to spit
	97	to vomit
ícźix-	98	to blow (as wind)
ícźix-	99	to breathe
	100	to laugh
àź-	101	to see
	102	to hear
xēmḕr-	103	to know (a fact)
ǧan-	104	to think
	105	to smell (sense odor)
	106	to fear
zurū-	107	to sleep
tùm-	108	to live
néiṯ-	109	to die
ṯā̀b-	110	to kill
	111	to fight
	112	to hunt (transitive)
	113	to hit
	114	to cut
xudVp-	115	to split
xup-	116	to stab (or stick)
	117	to scratch (an itch)
pā̀v-	118	to dig
ā́ǧōt-	119	to swim
	120	to fly
maḥt-	121	to walk
	122	to come
wád-	123	to lie (as on one's side)
	124	to sit
	125	to stand
	126	to turn (change direction)
dòn-	127	to fall (as in drop)
pṓź-	128	to give
ṯān-	129	to hold (in one's hand)
pū̀y-	130	to squeeze
	131	to rub
sḗḥr-	132	to wash
	133	to wipe
fād-	134	to pull
	135	to push
	136	to throw
	137	to tie
	138	to sew
	139	to count
	140	to say
káur-	141	to sing
	142	to play
	143	to float
	144	to flow
	145	to freeze
ḏā́rVt-	146	to swell
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Re: (Conlangs) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by Imralu » 25 Dec 2018 20:21

LinguoFranco wrote:
20 Dec 2018 06:04
I read up on balancing and deranking verbs, and I think I understand the concept, but I want to ask you guys here to make sure I am understanding it correctly.

I think a deranked verb can occur in a dependent clause but not in an independent or main clause. So, does this mean that there would be to different verbs for the same thing? Let's say two verbs for "to eat." One would be the main verb occurring in an independent clause while the other is deranked, and can only occur in a dependent clause.

I did read the Wikipedia article and the chapter on WALS.
I suppose you could go down the lexical rout and come up with two verbs for each type. Slavic languages have lexical distinctions between perfective and imperfective aspects, after all. But deranked verbs are generally simply verb forms, i.e. conjugations of verbs.

Take Swahili, for example:

kula = to eat

There is a verb form with -ki- which is only used to form subordinate clauses. It can mean essentially "if" or "when" or be used as the equivalent of participle phrases in English. I gloss it as "SIT" for "situational" because it describes the background situation, the context in which the main clause happens, although it's sometimes called a conditional or simultaneous verb form. It can't be used in a main clause because it inherently describes a background condition.

Ukila chakula changu, nitakukasirikia.
If you eat my food, I'll get angry with you.

Code: Select all

u- ki- l(a) chakula  ch-angu | ni-ta- ku-kasirik(a)-i(a)
2S-SIT-eat  CL7.food CL7-my  | 1S-FUT-2S-get.angry -APPL
Alitembea barabarani akila maandazi.
S/he walked along the street eating food.

Code: Select all

a- li- tembe(a) barabaran-i   a- ki- l(a) maandazi
3S-PST-walk     street   -LOC 3S-SIT-eat  doughnuts
Nilifika nikiwa nimeshakula.
I arrived having already eaten.

Code: Select all

ni-li- fik(a) ni-ki- w(a) ni-me- sha-    ku- l(a).
1S-PST-arrive 1S-SIT-be   1S-PRF-already-EXT-eat
Note: The auxiliary used to form compound cases is always -wa "be" in Swahili. Ordinarily, you can just use the -me- perfect on verbs without needing a compound form, but because -ki- and -me- fill the same slot in a verb (the TAM-marking slot), that necessitates the compound form here. The -ku- morpheme glossed as EXT appears in some verb forms with verbs with very short stems such as -l- and doesn't add any meaning.

I could also have given examples of the subjunctive, but, as in most languages with a subjunctive, it's not quite as clean-cut an example because it can also be used in main clauses with an optative/desiderative meaning.
Glossing Abbreviations: COMP = comparative, C = complementiser, ACS / ICS = accessible / inaccessible, GDV = gerundive, SPEC / NSPC = specific / non-specific, AG = agent, E = entity (person, animal, thing)
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Re: (Conlangs) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by Imralu » 25 Dec 2018 22:38

Ahzoh wrote:
24 Dec 2018 20:31
If y'all could do me a favor and give me some ideas of verbs that I could derive the swadesh list verbs from, using these derivation affixes
A few I've thought of:

come = zomaḥt- (to walk here) (Just realised that's already purùm- but you haven't added it to your Swadesh list)

fly = tādòn- (to not fall)

scratch = pā̀vēn (to dig a little bit)

When you have a word for flow you could add tā- and -Vt to it to mean "freeze" (begin not to flow)?

And some that aren't on the Swadesh list that I've thought of for the verbs you've got already. Not exactly what you've asked for, but it'll give you some hopefully fun ideas for vocabulary. No idea if I'm getting the forms right and, of course, these are just ideas for you; feel free to pick and choose or ignore. Also, damn, combining diacritics are handled differently everywhere, and I've just realised you're using a combining hacek instead of ğ ... alright:
  • ēdòn- "to take off" (to fall up, i.e. to begin flying)

    tādònVt "to take off" (i.e. to begin not falling)

    zodòn- "to be drawn towards", "to be attracted to" / "to come to one by fate" (fall towards)

    dòğVn- "to trip" "stumble" (fall incorrectly ??)

    dòdVn- "to collapse" (fall chaotically)

    kadòn- "to rain" (fall repeatedly)

    fādVd- "to pull apart", "to rip asunder" (pull chaotically)

    ṯā̀bēn "to injure" (kill a little bit)

    ṯā̀bās "to slaughter" / "slay" / "kill violently" (kill intensely)

    ṯā̀mōb- "to torture to death" (kill for a while)

    tāṯā̀b- "to abstain from killing" / "practice ahimsa" (not kill)

    taṯā̀b- "to hunt" (kill frequently)

    ṯā̀ğVb- "to commit manslaughter" / "kill accidentally" (kill incorrectly)

    ṯādVb`- "to kill for fun" (kill chaotically)

    ṯāṯā̀b- "to wipe out" / "to slaughter" / "to commit genocide" (kill excessively)

    ēṯā̀b- "to assassinate" (to kill up ... societally up)

    bāṯā̀b- "to execute" (to kill down ... societally down)

    zoṯā̀b- "to hunt" / "to kill for food" / "to bag" (kill towards)

    puṯā̀b- "to exterminate" / "to wipe out" / "drive to extinction" (kill away)

    néiṯēn "to be injured/sick" (die a little bit)

    néiğVṯ- "to die in an accident" (die incorrectly)

    tānéiṯ- "to survive" / "to be immortal" (not die)

    tùmās "to be healthy" / "to live life to the fullest" (live intensely)

    tùmVt "to be born" / "to be conceived" (begin living)

    tùmVk "to die" (possibly euphemistic, cease living)

    tātùm- "to be inanimate" (not live)

    tùğVm- "to be degenerate" (live incorrectly)

    tùdVm- "to be a chaotic mess of a person" / "have a convoluted life" (live chaotically)

    tutùm- "to be over the top / excessive" (of a person) / "to be rampant" (of a weed, societal problem etc.)

    putùm- "fuck off" (especially in imperative forms, i.e. kind of like "if you must live, do it away from me!")

    ǧanās "to ponder" / "to mull over" / "to meditate on" (think intensely)

    ǧamōn- "to ponder" / "to ruminate" / "to mull over" (think for a long time)

    tāǧan- "to be thoughtless" / "to be at peace" / "to meditate" (not think)

    kaǧan- "to miss" (to frequently think ... use whatever strategy you use for "about")

    ǧağVn- "to err" / "to be mistaken" (think incorrectly)

    ǧadVn- "to be insane" / "to have disordered thoughts" / "be psychotic" (think chaotically)

    ǧaǧan- "to think too much" / "to get caught up in thoughts" / "to worry"

    ēǧan- "to meditate" / "concern oneself with spiritual matters" / "take the high road" / "give someone the benefit of the doubt" (think up)

    bāǧan- "to think the worst (of someone)" / "to underestimate"

    zoǧan- "to remember" (think towards, i.e. to call into the memory)

    puǧan- "to forget deliberately" / "to cast out of one's mind (to think away)

    pupṓź- "to give out" / "to emit" / "to secrete" / "to donate" (give away)

    zopṓź- "to contribute" (to give towards)

    wádVd- "to have a seizure" (lie chaotically)

    maǧVḥt- "to limp" (walk incorrectly)

    ṯāmōn- "to keep" / "to store" (hold for a while)

    ṯānVt "to seize" / "to grasp" (begin holding) (If you use ṯān also for wearing clothes, this would also be "put on")

    ṯānVk "to let go of" / "to release" (cease holding) (If you use ṯān also for wearing clothes, this would also be "take off")

    ṯādVn- "to manhandle" / "to choke" [tr.] (hold chaotically)

    ṯānās "to grip" / "to cling onto" (hold intensely)

    ṯāğVn- "to use incorrectly" / "to be clumsy" (hold incorrectly)

    ēṯān- "to hold up", "pick up", "lift"

    pū̀yēn "to pinch" (squeeze slightly)

    pū̀mōy- "to clamp" (squeeze for a while) (sorry, I'm fucking up your combining characters)

    pūdVy- "to crush" (squeeze chaotically) (somehow lost your combining grave)

    pupū̀y- "to crush" (squeeze excessively)

    bāpū̀y- "to trample down" / "tread underfoot" (squeeze down)

    pupū̀y- "to shoot" (a bullet, to squeeze away)

    gàdVc- "to drown" / "get drunk" (drink chaotically)

    gàğVc- "to drown" / "to choke on water" (drink incorrectly)

    ḏākùğVd- "to choke on food" (eat incorrectly)

    ḏākùdVd- "to devour" / "to corrode" (eat chaotically)

    ḏākùdēn "to peck at" (of a person, eat only a little)

    tāḏākùd- "to fast" (not eat)

    ḏaḏākùd- "to overeat" / "to stuff oneself full"

    bāḏākùd- "to eat up" (eat down)

    puḏākùd- "to corrode" / "eat up" (eat away)

    ā́ǧōǧVt- "to drown" / "to flounder" (swim incorrectly)

    ā́ǧōdVt- "to splash around" (swim chaotically)

    ā́ǧōtēn "to bathe" (swim a bit)

    tāā́ǧōt-"to sink" (not swim)

    bāā́ǧōt- "to dive down deep" (swim down)

    zuzurū- "to be in a coma" (sleep too much)

    zumōrū- "to hibernate" (sleep for a while)

    zurūVt "to fall asleep" (begin sleeping, obviously!)

    zurūVk "to wake up" (stop sleeping", obviously)

    tāzurū- "to have insomnia" (not sleep)

    tāícźix- "to suffocate" / "to be anaerobic" (not breathe)

    ícźixVk "to die" (euphemism) / "to suffocate" (stop breathing)

    zoícźix- "to inhale" (breathe in)

    puícźix- "to exhale" (breathe out)

    ícźidVx- "to be a tornado" (blow chaotically)

    tāàź- "to be blind" (not see)

    puàź- "to be long-sighted" (metaphorically and/or literally, see far)

    zoàź- "to be short-sighted" (metaphorically and/or literally, see near)

    ēàź- "to turn a blind-eye to" (see up)

    bāàź- "to focus on what is directly in front of one" (see down)

    àmōź- "to watch" (see for a while)

    àźās "to look at" (see intensely)

    àźēn "to barely make out" / "to glimpse" (see a little bit)

    àźVt "to catch sight of" (begin to see)

    kaàź- "to be observant" / "to keep an eye out for" (see frequently)

    àdVź- "to hallucinate" (see chaotically)

    źaàź- / àźàź- ?? "to not be able to unsee" / "to have ... burned into one's eyes/brain"

    kaamēn "to nibble" (bite a little bit repeatedly)

    adVm- "to have rabies" / "to go on a biting spree" / "to gnash one's teeth" (bite chaotically)

    xēmḕrVt "to learn" (begin to know)

    xēmḕrās "to be sure" (know intensely)

    xēmḕrēn "to suspect" (know a little bit)

    xēmḕrVk "to be at one's wit's end" / "to be lost" / "to be out of hope" / "not know what to do" (stop knowing)

    tāxēmḕr- "to be ignorant" / "be unknowing" (not know)

    kaxēmḕr- "to be a know-it-all" / "to be knowledgeable" (know frequently)

    xēmḕr- "to be mistaken" / "to err" (to know wrong)

    xēmḕdVr- "to intuit" / "to know something for reasons unknown" / "to learn of something psychically" / "to have a premonition" / "to be knowledgeable in obscure areas yet lack knowledge of basic things" (to know chaotically)

    kaxupēn "to tattoo" (stab a little bit repeatedly)

    sḗḥrēn "to rinse" (to wash a little bit)

    sḗğVḥr- "to damage with water" (to wash incorrectly)

    sḗdVḥr- "to wash away" (of a flood, etc., to wash chaotically)

    wádVt "to lie down" (i.e. commence lying down ... stupid that English doesn't distinguish this without context)
Glossing Abbreviations: COMP = comparative, C = complementiser, ACS / ICS = accessible / inaccessible, GDV = gerundive, SPEC / NSPC = specific / non-specific, AG = agent, E = entity (person, animal, thing)
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Vlürch
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Re: (Conlangs) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by Vlürch » 28 Dec 2018 12:29

shimobaatar wrote:
23 Dec 2018 21:27
What are the phonemic r-colored consonants in American English and Mandarin Chinese? Oh, do you mean the rhotics that can cause r-coloring on vowels?
Nah, by "at all" I meant the allophonic R-colouration on consonants adjacent to rhotics that sometimes happens. Like an exaggerated American or Beijing accent where entire words can sound like they're pronounced with the tongue curled back. You know, like, an extra-stereotypical redneck pronouncing "pretty" as [pʴʰɻ̩ʷˤːɖi] or even [pʴʰɻ̩ʷˤːɽiʴ] or whatever.
shimobaatar wrote:
23 Dec 2018 21:27
Based on the ways, for example, nasalization can spread, I think you could probably have it either way.
Well, I'd prefer vowels not being R-coloured after allophonically R-coloured consonants because if they were, the consonants following them would become R-coloured as well, and then the vowels following them, on and on and on, eventually leading to rhotic harmony, which... eh, I think that'd be limiting and not even fun anymore. On the other hand, I do like word-final [ɚ], but having it as a separate phoneme would be a bit too much. Would it be realistic enough for /ə/ to be the only vowel that gets R-coloured word-finally after R-coloured consonants? I think it'd be justifiable in that it's the schwa and could be treated differently in other ways as well, right?

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Re: (Conlangs) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by shimobaatar » 28 Dec 2018 13:57

Vlürch wrote:
28 Dec 2018 12:29
shimobaatar wrote:
23 Dec 2018 21:27
What are the phonemic r-colored consonants in American English and Mandarin Chinese? Oh, do you mean the rhotics that can cause r-coloring on vowels?
Nah, by "at all" I meant the allophonic R-colouration on consonants adjacent to rhotics that sometimes happens. Like an exaggerated American or Beijing accent where entire words can sound like they're pronounced with the tongue curled back. You know, like, an extra-stereotypical redneck pronouncing "pretty" as [pʴʰɻ̩ʷˤːɖi] or even [pʴʰɻ̩ʷˤːɽiʴ] or whatever.
Ohh, got it. My mistake. When you said "I know phonemic R-coloured consonants are (almost certainly) unattested and probably the only languages that ever have them at all are American English and Mandarin Chinese" (emphasis mine), I interpreted "them" as referring back to "phonemic R-coloured consonants", not just "R-coloured consonants". I know exactly what you mean now.

Ah, yes, "purdy". [:P]
Vlürch wrote:
28 Dec 2018 12:29
shimobaatar wrote:
23 Dec 2018 21:27
Based on the ways, for example, nasalization can spread, I think you could probably have it either way.
Well, I'd prefer vowels not being R-coloured after allophonically R-coloured consonants because if they were, the consonants following them would become R-coloured as well, and then the vowels following them, on and on and on, eventually leading to rhotic harmony, which... eh, I think that'd be limiting and not even fun anymore. On the other hand, I do like word-final [ɚ], but having it as a separate phoneme would be a bit too much. Would it be realistic enough for /ə/ to be the only vowel that gets R-coloured word-finally after R-coloured consonants? I think it'd be justifiable in that it's the schwa and could be treated differently in other ways as well, right?
I don't think you'd absolutely have to have r-coloring spread to the consonants beyond the vowels adjacent to the originally r-colored consonants, but I also don't think it's a problem if you want to have r-coloring only spread regressively/leftward. And yeah, you should be fine making the schwa an exception if you don't want /ɚ/. I don't know what you have in mind for the phonotactics of this language, but if you weren't planning on allowing final r-colored consonants, maybe you could have something like /Cʴ/ > [Cʴɚ] / _#?

Nloki
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Re: (Conlangs) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by Nloki » 28 Dec 2018 17:21

Hello, does someone know what is the apostrophe in Quenya used for? Like in "...lumenn' omentielvo." instead of lúmenna or in "...úcaremmar sív' emme apsenet..."? I think it could be used to replace vowels at the end of a word if the next word starts with a vowel, but I'm not quite sure on that.

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