Jäzik Panúski

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Tristan Radicz
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Re: Jezik Panoski

Post by Tristan Radicz » 25 Sep 2018 20:10

A small note about positional palatalisation: in South Slavic it correlates with the distinction of yers' reflexes - in Bulgarian (sans part of the Western dialects) and Macedonian, the two reflexes are different (front and back respectively) and there is palatalisation in position before front vowels (lost in Macedonian), while Western South Slavic merged the two yer vowels and bears no traces of such palatalisation.

Ælfwine
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Re: Jezik Panoski

Post by Ælfwine » 01 Nov 2018 07:52

Tristan Radicz wrote:
25 Sep 2018 20:10
A small note about positional palatalisation: in South Slavic it correlates with the distinction of yers' reflexes - in Bulgarian (sans part of the Western dialects) and Macedonian, the two reflexes are different (front and back respectively) and there is palatalisation in position before front vowels (lost in Macedonian), while Western South Slavic merged the two yer vowels and bears no traces of such palatalisation.
Good to know. Thanks!

Below I am slowly adding to a huge list of features that my Pannonian language will share. This list will be expanded upon periodically.

Phonology:
  • t and d are lost before l as in most South Slavic, including Central Slovak.
  • The desinence of the Slavic nasal front vowel is "broad" (likely [æ] or [ɛ]). It will likely merge with /a/ before a palatal consonant, otherwise it becomes /e~ie/.
  • The desinence of the Slavic nasal back vowel is "narrow." It's highly likely based on the evidence from Slavic loanwords into Hungarian that the Pannonian value was [ũ] (sorry, Slovenes!)
  • The non-palatalized syllabic l becomes /u/, merging with the outcome of the nasal back vowel.
  • The palatalized syllabic ʎ, as with ʎ in general, depalatalizes fully to l.
  • The mid-high vowels and have diphthongized to ie and uo respectively.
  • The pronunciation of /v/ varies from [v] to [ʋ] to [w]
Stress/Accent changes:
  • Stress is retracted from a final short vowel. Slovak and Czech have fixed stress on the initial syllable, and so to does some northern Stokavian dialects near the Hungarian border. I have decided to follow this route. Uniquely, length is preserved despite tone being lost in its place.
Morphosyntax:
  • The desinence of the instrumental singular -a stems is simply -u, from earlier -ǫ
  • The neuter ending is long
  • A productive diminutive suffix is -ek. This is likely due to Hungarian influence, which coincidentally has the same suffix.
  • Instead of a morphological passive, the third person reflexive is used in its place.
  • Pannonian's negative past tense deviates syntactically from standard WSS: "sem ne" is heard over "nisam."
Last edited by Ælfwine on 10 Nov 2018 02:20, edited 3 times in total.
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Zekoslav
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Re: Jezik Panoski

Post by Zekoslav » 01 Nov 2018 15:35

I like these new Ideas of yours! One thing I have to say is that no Štokavian dialect actually has fixed stress on the first syllable - it's just that some of them have had a sound change which moved them in that direction, due to Hungarian influence (stress moved from the word-final mora to the word-initial mora, but all non-final stresses, including word-final long falling vowels, remained in their place). This development could inspire a chronology of accent retractions in Pannonian, leading to fixed word-initial stress, but leaving possibly complex traces in the preservation of vowel length.
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Ælfwine
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Re: Jäzik Panúskí

Post by Ælfwine » 15 Nov 2018 22:35

I've changed the native name of the language (and also the thread title) with the accordance of some new sound changes.

I've started going past sound changes and toying with some of the noun declensions in Pannonian. Here's an example:

Code: Select all

NOM: -∅
ACC: -∅
GEN: -a
DAT: -ü
LOC: -ü
INS: -em
An example of a word using this declension is "hrád" [ˈɦraːd] meaning "town" or "small city." In Proto-Slavic, this word was a hard -o stem, and belonged to accent paradigm "C." Here is what the word looks like when declined:

(Small orthography note: acute accents mark long vowels and diareses mark the fronted versions of back vowels.)

Code: Select all

NOM: hrád
ACC: hrád
GEN: hrada
DAT: hradü
LOC: hrádü
INS: hradem
The plural forms are still being decided upon, however I reckon they'd look somewhat like this:

Code: Select all

NOM: hradi
ACC: hradi
GEN: hrád
DAT: hradem
LOC: hradiéh (uncertain)
INS: hradi
or like this:

Code: Select all

NOM: hradövi
ACC: hradöve
GEN: hradöva
DAT: hradövem
LOC: hradöviéh (uncertain)
INS: hradövi
The reason for this difference is due to the nature of Proto-Slavic having two different stems, "short stems" and "long stems." For example, the nominative singular had a short -i ending and a longe -ove ending, which was reanalyzed as -ovi in analogy with the short stem. In Slovene (and Štokavian Croatian), the long -ov ending was reanalyzed agglutinatively as a generic plural marker. Given the agglutinative nature of Hungarian, I am leaning towards the Slovene/Štokavian system of marking plurals agglutinatively with -ov. Perhaps this ending can even be analyzed as the plural ending for other classes of declensions. What do you guys think?
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Re: Jäzik Panúski

Post by Ælfwine » 16 Jan 2019 05:34

I think I am at the point where Pannonian is really starting to come together. I have a fairly good idea now on what Pannonian would look like as most of the distinctive isoglosses have been decided upon. However, I've not really developed sound changes that would happen post-Magyar. So, here's a few:

Shortening of auslaut vowels. Posterior to the retraction of final stress and the fall of the yers is a general shortening of auslaut vowels, similar to the processes in Czech and Hungarian. This happened around the latter half of the 13th century.

Merger of /x/ and /ɦ/: A sound change that occurred around the 15th century is the merger of /x/ and /ɦ/ (from /g/) into the phoneme /h/. This sound change follows Hungarian around the 14th century which changed /x/ to /h/. Then, /ɦ/ de-voiced to /h/.

Lateral chain shift: First, non-geminate /l/ (which was probably [ɫ]), becomes /u/ before consonants (including in between two other consonants.) This causes a chain shift, depalatalizing /ʎ/ to /l/. This means Pannonian lacks /ʎ/ as a phoneme, similarly to Hungarian.

The velar consonants /k/ and /g/ become /c/ and /ɟ/ before /ɲ/. Therefore, the word for "book" is [ˈcɲihɑ]. Likewise, /s/ and /z/ become close to postalveolar [ʃ] and [ʒ]. Apparently this sounds quite "redneck," which means I've succeeded. :p

Finally, a note on orthography: I'm going to employ two (technically three) orthographies: the first is a gaglolitic orthography in use mainly by the clergy. The second orthography is a Croatian inspired one, except /c/ and /ɟ/ are represented by <cj> and <gj> respectively. The third orthography is something of a mix between Hungarian and Old Czech, whereas <s> is /s/, <sz> is /ʃ/, <zs> is /ʒ/, <ny> is /ɲ/, and so on. In both orthographies, long vowels are represented by acutes, front rounded vowels by diaereses, and long front rounded vowels by double acutes (the so called "hungarumlaut.)" Ill try my hand at translating the "Hej, Sloveni" first, and see which orthography works the best.
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Re: Jezik Panoski

Post by Ælfwine » 24 Jan 2019 17:15

Porphyrogenitos wrote:
25 Aug 2018 03:30
If you ever get to this part, what would the stress/tone system look like?
I'm somewhat confident I can answer this now. The stress system of Pannonian is characteristically South Slavic. Like the language of the Kiev leaflets and dialects of Slavonian Croatian, Pannonian had retracted stress from a final syllable to the initial syllable, but left intermediate syllables alone. This is evident in the language's autonym, Panúski [pɐˈnuː.ski], where stress remains on the second syllable. Nonetheless, northern dialects of Pannonian (i.e. OTL Sopron/Ödenburg) have indeed fixed stress to the initial syllable, much like their German and Slovak neighbors.

Unlike its South Slavic neighbors to the west and south, Pannonian had lost almost all traces of tone. Some remnants of the previous tonal system can be found in words with long vowels, however this is no longer opaque due to additional sound changes that altered vowel length and analogy. (For example, the long vowel in Panúski is from compensatory lengthening from the lost nasal consonant in Proto-Slavic *Panǫnski.) I'll reserve another post for Pannonian length when the analogy is wrought. Zekoslav had gratefully obliged to help me code some of the tougher Pannonian accent changes. Once that is done, I will manually go through each declension and apply analogy where needed. This is especially necessary due to the unpredictable alternations in vowel length that my changes have caused.
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Zythros Jubi
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Re: Jäzik Panúski

Post by Zythros Jubi » 25 Jan 2019 18:05

May I ask what does the northwestern border of Hungary look like in this timeline, i.e. north of the Danube? I suppose OTL Slovakia is split into two, perhaps with the western half in Holy Roman Empire, even Croatia and Slavonia can be part of the Empire, the eastern half of Slovakia being part of Hungary.

Ælfwine
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Re: Jäzik Panúski

Post by Ælfwine » 27 Jan 2019 17:15

I've assumed no difference here. The border with Slovakia is the same as in OTL. In medieval times I believe the northern border would be the Rába river, whilst the southern border is the Drava.
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Zythros Jubi
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Re: Jäzik Panúski

Post by Zythros Jubi » 29 Jan 2019 17:52

That is to say, Pannonian is spoken to the north of Raba River?

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