Kôren language

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Re: Kôrem language

Post by Omzinesý » 31 Dec 2018 20:18

Reyzadren wrote:
30 Dec 2018 01:01
Omzinesý wrote:
29 Dec 2018 23:24
Reyzadren wrote:
08 Aug 2018 22:25
[+1] Glad to see someone else also using voices/triggers, as well as re-using/enhancing them upon nouns like this too.
How have you used them?
In the most typical way possible [:D]
Note: If you want me to move this post to my own thread instead of yours, PM me.

:con: griuskant (the conscript is not shown here)

fuiroek zaefa zaesh ki omzinesy.
/'fuirɯk 'zˤefa 'zˤeʃ ki 'ɔmzˤinəsY/
child give-V gift to Omzinesý.
The children give a present to Omzinesy. //This is the reference sentence


These are 3 truncation sentences that have the same meaning: (Each sentence uses a different trigger on each verb; active, passive and circumstantial)

fuiroek zaefa. zaesh zaefan. omzinesy zaefand.
/'fuirɯk 'zˤefa. 'zˤeʃ 'zˤefan. 'ɔmzˤinəsY 'zˤefand/
child give-V. gift give-V-PASS. Omzinesý give-V-PASS-T3
The children give (something). The present is given. Somebody gives something to Omzinesý.


These are 3 sentences that show the "triggers/voices" re-used with a noun suffix.

fuiroek az zaefe. zaesh az zaefen. omzinesy az zaefend.
/'fuirɯk azˤ 'zˤefə. ''zˤeʃ azˤ 'zˤefən. 'ɔmzˤinəsY azˤ 'zˤefənd/
child is give-N. gift is give-N-PASS. Omzinesý is give-N-PASS-T3
The children are the givers. The present is the package. Omzinesý is the recipient.
Thanks. We will see how I will use them.

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Re: Kôren anguage

Post by Omzinesý » 31 Dec 2018 20:20

I realized the name of the language is not possible endonym in the language. I'll make the minimum change: Kôrem is now Kôren.

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Re: Kôren language

Post by Omzinesý » 09 Jan 2019 18:45

Tenses

Koren has two synthetic tenses: Non-Future and Future. Non-Future is zero-marked and Future has suffix -e.
Future is also used to express imperative. Stress does not change between Non-Future and Future tenses, and is thus on the penultimate in Non-Future forms and anti-penultimate in Future forms.
The two synthetic tenses can be combined with perfect particle rôk to form Perfect and Future-Perfect tenses.

vunat 'hunts, is hunting, hunted'
vunate 'will hunt, hunt!'

rôk vunat 'has hunted'
rôk vunate 'will have hunted'

Perfects aren't used very frequently in a discourse. They only appear in 'introductions' to a new discourse. The events are handled with Non-Future tense. Perfects aren't used in temporal subordinate clauses either. Conjunction rôku 'after' is used instead. rôk and rôku are though evidently related.


Negation

The negation particle is ôl. It's positioned before the word it's most related to to.

Nos ôl nasebe.
sg1 NEG sleep.FUT
'I will not sleep.'

Nos sebu ôl auto.
sg1 have NEG car
'I don't have a car.'

When imperatives are negated, the negation particle also gets the imperative -e.

ôl-e naseb-e!
NEG-IMP/FUT sleep-IMP/FUT
'Don't sleep!'
Last edited by Omzinesý on 25 Jan 2019 16:22, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: Kôren language

Post by Omzinesý » 09 Jan 2019 19:30

I'll think about these, from the thread: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=6798
chris_notts wrote:
19 Oct 2018 22:12
I'm (kindof) back after a long time away! I was re-reading "Intransitive Predication" by Stassen, and I thought it might make a good conlang quiz, one which I may or may not have done before. Without going into too many details, Stassen looks at patterns in the encoding of the following and how they compare with the typical verbal strategy in different languages:

1. Nominal predication

Examples of nominal predicates expressing identity and class membership, encoded on English with a copula verb:

Identity: he's the man I saw yesterday
Class membership: he's a man

Commonly encoded by a copula verb, copula particle (i.e. with distinct morphology/syntax compared to verbs), or by apposition of nouns. Some languages use the verbal strategy and apply person/TAM affixes/clitics to predicate nouns.

2. Locative predication

Expressions of location. Typically encoded by one or a small class of verbs together with a locative argument. Verbs may simultaenously encode posture or orientation of the figure. Sometimes expressed by just a noun and location with no verb present.

A separate but related class is existential clauses, which may be identical to locationals, differ in word order or pragmatic marking (compare English "A man is there" to "There is a man"), or use completely different supporting verbs.

3. Predicate adjectives

Typically marked either by the same strategy as predicate nouns (e.g. supported by a copula verb), or by the same strategy as verbs (taking verbal agreement and TAM marking). Stassen claims that in languages with inflectional tense marking on verbs predicate adjectives will tend to use the nominal strategy, othereise they'll tend to use the verbal strategy.

In a separate book, Stassen also looks at strategies for predicate possession, including:

Locational strategy = to/at Possessor there is/exists Possessee
With strategy = Possessor is with Possessee
Have strategy = Possessor has Possessee
Topic strategy = Possessor, Possessee exist (possibly with possessive marking on Possessee)

So, for your conlangs:

1. How is nominal predication expressed?
2. How is adjectival predication expressed?
3. How is locative predication expressed?
4. How are existentials expressed?
5. How is predicative possession expressed?
1. Nominal predication

Ao ru eló
sg3 COP man.INDEF
'He is a man.'

So, Korem uses the copular strategy. ru is a stative rather than a verb because it doesn't have diathesis markers. It though has Future/imperative form re 'be!/ will be'

I have to think about cleft clauses. Do they exist in Koren


3. How is locative predication expressed?

Koren has quite many locational statives 'be inside X', 'be on the surface of X' etc. (The same statives can be made motion verbs by adding diathesis markers and removing stative suffix -u.)

Elo pisku serpa.
man.DEF be.inside house.INDEF
'The man is in the house.'

(Elo pisok serpa.
man.DEF go.NFUT<PAT> house.INDEF
'The man went in the house.' )

2. How is adjectival predication expressed?

Koren doesn't have adjectives but statives, whose main difference is that adjectives can be predicates.

Ao tasku
sg3 be.beautiful
'She is beautiful.'

Ao re taski.
sg3 will.be beauty.INDEF
'She will be a beauty.'

4. How are existentials expressed?
The stucture is similar to English with a dummy location if no specific one is expressed. "There is a man." "In a house is a man".

5. How is predicative possession expressed?
Possession is also similar to location. The possessed one though has a possessed marker.

Elo sebu serpa-v.
man.DEF have house.INDEF-POSESSED
'The man has a house.'

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Re: Kôren language

Post by Omzinesý » 09 Jan 2019 20:56

My whole vocabulary is updated.
The translated examples here are though often "wrong" already.

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Re: Kôren language

Post by Omzinesý » 09 Jan 2019 21:11

Motion verbs

Motion verbs and location statives have the same roots.

(1) Stative
Y pisku X 'Y is inside X'.

(1) Verb having Agent diathesis
Y pisak Z X. 'Y put Z in X.'

(3) Verb having patient diathesis
Z pisok X (Y). 'Z goes into X (because of Y).'

(4) Verb having goal diathesis
X pisik Z (Y). 'X is gone into by Z (because of Y).'


Because the one causing something to move in coded as an Agent, it can also be coded as a Volitiona Agent.
(5) Verb having Agent diathesis
Y pisyk Z X. 'Y put Z in X.'

If the one going in is volitional, the clause must be reflexive.
(6)
Y pisyk tet X. 'Y went willingly in X.'
Literally: "Y put willingly oneself in X."


Manner of motion is coned in a satellite if needed.
(7)
Z sop X. 'Z goes to X.'

(8)
Z sop Segti X. 'Z walks to X.' i.e. "goes by foot"

The tool, can also be topical.
(9) Verb with instrument diathesis
Segti/auto sup Z X. 'It's by food/car, how Z goes to X.'

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Re: Kôren language

Post by Omzinesý » 12 Jan 2019 00:40

In tread viewtopic.php?f=9&t=2139 , one has to translate sentence 'Do you want to go home?' In Kôren it is:

Pe ere s<y>p-e Osa?
Q sg2 go<AG.VOL>-FUT home.DEF

Future with the Volitional diathesis expresses the modal meaning of "wanting" and it's not sure if the action will ever happen.
Last edited by Omzinesý on 25 Jan 2019 16:21, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Kôren language

Post by gestaltist » 12 Jan 2019 20:28

Omzinesý wrote:
09 Jan 2019 18:45
Koren has two synthetic tenses: Non-Future and Future. Non-Future is zero-marked and Future has suffix -e.
Future is also used to express imperative.
Wouldn't that then be more of a realis-irrealis distinction rather than tense?

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Re: Kôren language

Post by Omzinesý » 13 Jan 2019 15:48

gestaltist wrote:
12 Jan 2019 20:28
Omzinesý wrote:
09 Jan 2019 18:45
Koren has two synthetic tenses: Non-Future and Future. Non-Future is zero-marked and Future has suffix -e.
Future is also used to express imperative.
Wouldn't that then be more of a realis-irrealis distinction rather than tense?
As far as I know, it's still debated if the future tense always entails irrealis/non-factuality. If yes, Irrealis could be a label generic enough to cover 1) the future, 2) imperative, and 3) desiderative as a derivation if the volitional.
But the main point against calling it Irrealis is that all irrealis clauses do not have suffix -e.

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Re: Kôren language

Post by Omzinesý » 14 Jan 2019 14:01

On proper nouns

I have had a problem for many months. Proper nouns have a suffix -o.

Definite nouns are stressed on the penultimate syllable.
<serpa> [ sɛɹ'pa] 'a house'
<Serpa> ['seɹpɛ] 'the house'

Because proper nouns are definite, they shoul also be stressed on the penultimate syllable. But then the suffix -o is unstressed, [o] cannot appear in an ustressed syllable. I cannot make the proper-noun suffix be say [ɔ] because it is preserved for general noun.

The solution
The suffix -o is added to a stem ending in a vowel.
<Viseo> [βɪ'seɔ] for example is person name.

Two rounded back-vowels are however contracted and pronounced ['o].
<Siruo> for example is another person name. Its pronunciation is [sɪ'ɹuɔ] but in modern Kôren it is pronunced [sɪ'ɹo].
So "underlyingly" all proper nouns are stressed on the penultimate syllable, but in practice only names ending in a front-vowel + -o do that.

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Re: Kôrem language

Post by Omzinesý » 14 Jan 2019 14:29

The message on proper nouns above also solves my eternal problem of vowel orthography :)
Omzinesý wrote:
14 Jul 2017 10:09
Vowels

Stressed syllables can have seven vowel sounds: [a, e, i, ɒ, o, u, ai].
Unstressed syllables can have seven vowel sounds: [ɛ, ɪ, ɔ, ʊ, ɛɪ].

When not stressed /a, i, ɒ, u, ai/ are pronounced: [ɛ, ɪ, ɔ, ʊ, ɛɪ], respectively.
They are always written <e, i, o, u, y>, respectively.

Stressed [e] can be either [ɛ] or [ɪ] when unstressed and stressed [o] can be either [ɔ] or [ʊ] when unstressed.
I don't know a better analyses than to analyse them as two different phonemes, both: /e - ɛ/, /e - ɪ/, and /o - ɔ/, /o - ʊ/. In the earlier language varieties they have apparently been pronounced distinctively.
When stressed, they are written <ê>, <î>, and <ô>, <û>, respectively. When not stressed they are written <e>, <i>, and <o>, <u>, respectively.

Diphthongs
There is one phonemic diphthong /ai/ that behaves phonotactically as any vowel phoneme, i.e. has one stress.

All other lines of vowels belong to different syllables and some kind of a hiatus appears between them.
e.g. ao '(s)he' /'a.o/
If none of the sounds in line is stressed, they are though pronounced very shortly and phonetically could be called a diphthong.
So the stressed vowels [a, e, i, ɒ, u, ai] are written <a, e, i, o, u, y>, respectively.
Stressed sound [o] is historically a contraction of /u/ and /o/ or two /o/s. So it can be written either [ou], [oo], or [uo].

When unstressed /a, e, i, ɒ, u, ai/ are pronounced [ɛ, ɛ-ɪ, ɪ, ɔ, ʊ, ɛɪ]. Unstressed /e/ is usually [ɛ] and rarely [ɪ]. The distinction is actually phonemic. All of them, exluding /e/ pronounced [ɪ] which is also written <i>, are written like the stressed allophones.

/o/ deriving from *ɒ:, written <oo> is pronounced [ɔ] when unstressed, /o/s deriving from *uo and *ou, and also written that way, are pronounced [ʊ] when unstressed.

How hard describing this phonology can be!

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Re: Kôren language

Post by Omzinesý » 14 Jan 2019 14:38

Trying to describe the phonology more accurately and synchronically.

Koren has 9 vowel phonemes: /i, e1, e2, a,, u, o1, o2, ɒ,, ai/.

When stressed, they are pronounced: [i, e, e, a,, u, o, o, ɒ,, ai], respectively.
When unstressed, they are pronounced: [ɪ, ɪ, ɛ, ɛ,, ʊ, ʊ, ɔ, ɔ,, ɛɪ], respectively.

When stressed, they are written: <i, e, e, a,, u, ou/uo, oo, o,, y>, respectively.
When unstressed, they are written: <i, i, e, a,, u, u, o, o,, y>, respectively.

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Re: Kôren language

Post by Omzinesý » 22 Jan 2019 20:13

From the translation thread: viewtopic.php?f=9&t=1700

Ao tel: "Pesa sep ene sinema."
3 say<AG> pl1 go<AG> now cinema
They said: "We are going to the cinema."

Ao tel gi tet sep ene sinema.
3 say<AG> NOMZR REFL go<AG> now cinema
They said that they were going to the cinema.

Factuality is not compulsorily marked.

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Re: Kôren language

Post by Omzinesý » 25 Jan 2019 15:47

Verbs


Diathesis

Diathesis mean more or less the same as voice, trigger or orientation. Voice being a bit different a thing, trigger being so much related to Autronesian languages, and orientation usually used of participles and nominalizations, I prefer the general term diathesis, which can mean all kinds of coding of semantic roles and the roles of information structure.

Diathesis marker is an infix left to the last consonant of the stem. Most verb roots are: CVC<>C. Some of the most frequent are just C<>C. Polysyllabic verbs always have the stress on the first syllable.
Its function is the code the semantic role of the topic of the sentence. Of course there are rules more specific than the semantic roles listed below governing with which infix the arguments are actually coded.

The diatheis markers are:
Agent topic: e
Agent topic + volitionality: y [ai]
Patient topic: o
Goal/recipient/beneficient topic/experiencer: i
Location/instrument topic: u

(1)
munta pelek nosa.
'A hunter killed an elk.'

(2)
nosa pelok
'An elk died.'

(3)
nosa pelok munta
'An elk got killed by a hunter.'

(4)
tevni peluk munta nosa
'In a forest, a hunter killed an elk.'

The topic of the sentence appears left to the verb, and can be dropped and understood anaphorically as the same as the topic of the preceding sentence. All the other arguments appear right to the verb without prepositions. If they are dropped, they are also dropped from the argument structure, see the difference between (2) and (3).


Tense

Koren has two synthetic tenses: Non-Future and Future. Non-Future is zero-marked and Future has suffix -e.
Future is also used to express imperative. Stress does not change between Non-Future and Future tenses, and is thus on the penultimate in Non-Future forms and anti-penultimate in Future forms.
The two synthetic tenses can be combined with perfect particle rôk to form Perfect and Future-Perfect tenses.

(5) vunet 'hunts, is hunting, hunted'
(6) vunete 'will hunt, hunt!'

(7) rôk vunet 'has hunted'
(8) rôk vunete 'will have hunted'

Perfects aren't used very frequently in a discourse. They only appear in 'introductions' to a new discourse. The events are handled with Non-Future tense. Perfects aren't used in temporal subordinate clauses either. Conjunction rôku 'after' is used instead. rôk and rôku are though evidently related.


Volitionality

If the topic is the agent in the clause, its willingness to execute the action can be coded by using <y> as the diathesis marker instead of <e>. It should be emphasized that <e> does not code the referent of the topic be unwilling, wolitionality just is not taken an account on.

(9)
Munta pelyk.
'The hunder willinly hunts.'


Future with the Volitional diathesis expresses the modal meaning of "wanting", i.e. desirative, and it's not sure if the action will ever happen.
(10)
Pe ere s<y>p-e Osa?
Q sg2 go<AG.VOL>-FUT home.DEF
'Do you want to go home?'


Nominalizations

Suffix -i derives lexical nominalizations. The same triggers than in the finite forms are used to mark the orientation of the nominalization in question. The derivation process is productive but the nominalizations that are really used are quite lexicalized. Those are the only lexical nominalizatios/infinite verb forms that Kôrem has. There is no infinite or action nominal.

pelek 'he kills'
->
peleki 'killer'

pelok 'he gets killed'
->
peloki 'a killed one'

pelik 'he is killed for'
->
peliki 'one killed for'

peluk 'It is used for killing'
->
peluki 'a killing weapon'


Word used in the examples:
pel<>k 'kill'
munta 'hunter'
nosa 'elk'
tevni 'forest'

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Re: Kôren language

Post by Omzinesý » 26 Jan 2019 11:10

Nouns

Noun pattern
Noun stems are usually of the pattern CVCV or CVCCV.
The last vowel is usually -a, -i, and -ô/o can be used for "normal nouns" without any own special meaning. -u rarely derives nouns because it's the stative suffix

Diminutive -i
Replacing the last vowel with -i, the word often becomes a diminutive.
(1) Elo - elô 'man'
(2) Eli - eli 'boy'

Indefinite plural/ material word -e
Replacing the last vowel with -e, which is always stressed, a countable word becomes an indefinite plural.
(3) elo 'a man'
(4) ele 'some men'

Another meaning of -e is partitive/material
(5) nerô 'a banana'
(6) nere 'some banana'

Both of the meanings can quite nicely be translated into English with some.

Proper nouns
Kôrem has a proper noun suffix -o that all nouns considered belonging to the descriptive category of proper nouns have. Names are usually derived from common nouns or statives with that suffix. If the common noun ends in a front vowel, the front vowel is replaced with -o.
(7) Bisa ['βisɛ] 'the wave'
(8) Biso ['βisɔ] 'Wave (person's name)'
If the last vowel is back, -o is added after it. However, /'ɑ.ɔ/ and /'u.ɔ/ are both pronounced ['o]. This brings the stress on the last syllable, although proper nouns are definite by definition.
(9) ronbu ['ɹombʊ] 'stands'
(10) Ronbuo [ɹɔm'bo] 'Standing One (person's name)'

Definiteness
Kôrem nouns have two forms of definite Indefinite and Definite. They are marked by stress. Definite nouns have their stress on the penultimate syllable while Indefinite nouns have their stress on the ultimate syllable. Definite nouns are always written with capitalized first letter while Indefinite ones never are. Letters <a> and <ô> also only appear in stressed syllables and are replaced by <e> and <o> respectively, in unstressed ones.
(11) serpa [ sɛɹ'pa] 'a house'
(12) Serpa ['seɹpɛ] 'the house'

Generic nouns, names of categories, are always Indefinite and singular in Kôrem. In example (13) both 'cat' and 'tail' are generic.
(13) neva sebu ronsa. [nɛ'βæ 'seβʊ ɹɔm'sæ] 'The cat has a long tail. ~ Cats have long tails.'

Possession

In the nominal possession construction Kôrem, a head-marking language, marks the possessed one not a genitive. The posessor follows the posessed. There are three possessed markers: possession, meronymic and metonymic.

Purely possessive relation, marker -b
This is the "Western possession" based on juridic rights.
(14) Serpab Elo [ seɹpɛβ 'elɔ] 'The man's house'

Meronymic or material relation, marker -g
'X is a part of the group of Ys' or 'X is made of Y' (window of the house, Y's hand, female author) or (wooden table)
(15)
noruag soga '
table.INDEF wood.INDEF-POSS
'A wooden table'

Metonymic relation -r
'X is near to Y' (Gin Tonic, Y's house [where Y lives])
(16) Serpab Elo ['seɹpɛɣ 'elɔ] 'The man's house'

If the possessor is the topic of the sentence, it doesn't need to be repeated but only the possessed marker is used.
(17)
Elo lebel Serpag.
man.DEF burn<AG> house-POSS
'The man burned his house.'

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Re: Kôren language

Post by Omzinesý » 26 Jan 2019 12:29

Pronouns

Asu or nos 'I' (asu and not are dialectal variants)
Ere 'you'
Ao 'he/she/it/they' not present or visible'
Sao 'he/she/it/they' present or visible'

Pronouns do not have plurals. Compound pronouns can be formed.
(1) Asu-Ere-Sao-Ao 'We (including you, them present and not present)'
(2) Ere-Sao 'you (but im speaking to one of you'

Ao and sao can well refer to animate or inanimate objects.


When used adjectively, the pronouns demand a possessed suffix to their head.
(3) Elor Asu/nos 'This man (near to me)'
(4) Elor Ere 'That man (near to you)'
(5) Elog Sao 'That man (present or visible)'
(6) Elog Ao 'That man (not present or visible)'

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Re: Kôren language

Post by Omzinesý » 30 Jan 2019 11:24

I'm considering argument-focus structures. Some possibilities:

1 (Pseudo-cleft) clauses - I have used them in too many langs, though the nominalizations are nice
The writer of the book was A. A. Milne

2 Some particle appearing in the beginning of the clause - Simple solution. The same slot where Polar Question marker appears.
FOC A. A. Milne wrote the book.

3. Some morpheme in the verb - I'm trying to avoid too much morphology.
A. A. Milne wrote-FOC the book.

4 Focus stressing - Too simple to be interesting

5. A morpheme in the focused word - Still trying to avoid too much morphology
A. A. Milne-FOC wrote the book.

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Re: Kôren language

Post by Omzinesý » 05 Feb 2019 14:22

Copular clauses

Nominal predicates can be formed either perifrastically, with copular stative ru.
(1) Nos ru eli. 'I am a boy'.

A denominal stative can also be formed from any noun.
(2) Nos eliu. 'I am a boy.'

Perifrastic predicates appear more likely in matrix clauses and synthetic predicates in subordinate clauses, often corresponding to English as an X, like an X, being an X.

Adjuncts are usually statives. Sometimes the synthetic nominal predicates resemble some kind of a semantically bleached oblique case.
(3) Nos sites erpô serpau. 'I read a book in a house.'

Usually, a local stative is used as a preposition.
(4)
Nos sites erpô pisku serpa.
sg1 read<AG> book.INDEF be.in house.INDEF
'I read a book [being] in a house.'

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Re: Kôren language

Post by Omzinesý » 27 Jun 2019 20:28

I'm trying to return to Kôren and remember how it works.

This is a part of Shahname


Feraidun’s bothers saw the holy man’s behavior and how the prince’s good fortune flourished, and they decide to destroy him. Feraidun was sleeping sweetly at the foot of a mountain, and late that night the two brothers slipped away from the army and climbed to where a huge rock overhung the prince. They sent it tumbling down the mountainside to kill their sleeping brother, but by God’s command the noise of the rock’s fall woke Feraidun, and he stopped it at its descent by means of a magic spell; the rock halted and never moved again. Then Feraidun rose and prepared to continue on his journey, saying nothing to his brothers about what had happened.



Feraidun’s bothers saw the holy man’s behavior and how the prince’s good fortune flourished

Toga feraidunob nagit risy Elo puksu sitap asri sibko ogu Pota
Toga feraidun-o-b nag<i>t ri-sy Elo puksu sit<a>p as-ri sibk-o ogu Pota
sibling.DEF F-PROPNOUN-MERON.POSS see<RECIPIENT> COMPL-how man.DEF holy behave<AG> and-COMPL fortune-PROPNOUN be.benefidial prince

as Ao kigan ri petyk Ao
as ao kig<a>n ri pet<y>k ao
and 3 decide<AG> COMPL destoy<AG.VOL> 3
and they decide to destroy him.

TO BE CONTINUED

Feraidun was sleeping sweetly at the foot of a mountain,

and late that night the two brothers slipped away from the army

and climbed to where a huge rock overhung the prince.

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