Tea or Coffee?

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Czwartek
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Tea or Coffee?

Post by Czwartek » 28 Mar 2011 20:40

:eng: Would you like tea or coffee? (where p1 assumes that p2 would like a hot drink, and the correct answer is either 'tea' or 'coffee')
:eng: Would you like (any) tea or coffee? (where p1 is asking p2 whether they would like a hot drink, and the correct answer is either 'yes' or 'no')
:eng: Do you have sons or daughters? (where p1 assumes that p2 has children, and the correct answer is either 'sons' or 'daughters')
:eng: Do you have (any) sons or daughters? (where p1 is asking whether p2 has children, and and correct answer is either 'yes' or 'no')

The bias in these English examples is towards the first type of question, where the assumption is made. In order to emphasize that p2 can refuse a drink, or deny having children without inferring that p1 made a false assumption, the word 'any' can be used ('any tea or coffee' or 'any sons or daughters'). The word 'any' has been used to imply that a 'yes' or 'no' response is expected. Please only translate this word if it's used in the same way in the target translation language.

How would this be handled in other languages?

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Omzinesý
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Re: Tea or Coffee?

Post by Omzinesý » 28 Mar 2011 20:48

:fin: Haluaisitko kahvia vai teetä?
:fin: Haluaisitko kahvia tai teetä?
:fin: Onko sinulla poikia vai tyttöjä?
:fin: Onko sinulla poikia tai tyttöjä?

tev
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Re: Tea or Coffee?

Post by tev » 28 Mar 2011 20:52

:deu: Willst du Tee oder Kaffee?
:deu: Willst du überhaupt Tee oder Kaffee?
:deu: Hast du ein Sohn oder eine Tochter?
:deu: Hast du überhaupt ein Sohn oder eine Tochter?
Sanareĥo hama ya sanoya.("live the moment")

native :deu:
maybe fluent :eng:
translateable :lat:
learning :fin:
my conlang: :con: Vanaya

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Re: Tea or Coffee?

Post by xinda » 29 Mar 2011 00:00

:roc: 你想喝茶還是咖啡? (還是 can also be 或 or 或者)
:roc: 你想喝些茶咖啡? (嗎 is used to form yes/no questions)
:roc: 你有兒子還是女兒?
:roc: 你有沒有兒子或女兒? (yes/no questions for the verb "to have")
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Chandith
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Re: Tea or Coffee?

Post by Chandith » 29 Mar 2011 11:07

tev wrote:
:deu: Willst du Tee oder Kaffee?
:deu: Willst du überhaupt Tee oder Kaffee?
:deu: Hast du ein Sohn oder eine Tochter?
:deu: Hast du überhaupt ein Sohn oder eine Tochter?
I find those problematic. "überhaupt" would imply, that the one asking th questions has presumed or was told earlier (probably by the one being asked), that the one being asked wants to have tea or coffee, and now is unsure if that is actually true. And it sound kinda rude.


:deu: Möchtest du Tee↗(?) oder Kaffee↘? / Möchten Sie Tee↗(?) oder Kaffee↘?
:deu: Möchtest du Tee oder Kaffee↗? / Möchten Sie Tee oder Kaffee↗?
:deu: Hast du einen Sohn↗(?) oder eine Tochter↘? / Haben Sie einen Sohn↗(?) oder eine Tochter↘?
:deu: Hast du nen Sohn oder ne Tochter↗? / Haben Sie einen Sohn oder eine Tochter↗?


German has no word that acts exactly like the English "any", we differentiate by using a different intonation.
Last edited by Chandith on 29 Mar 2011 23:37, edited 1 time in total.

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Ear of the Sphinx
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Re: Tea or Coffee?

Post by Ear of the Sphinx » 29 Mar 2011 14:47

:pol: Chciał(a)byś kawy czy herbaty?
:pol: Chciał(a)byś kawy lub herbaty?
:pol: Masz syna czy córkę?
:pol: Masz syna lub córkę?
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tev
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Re: Tea or Coffee?

Post by tev » 29 Mar 2011 18:02

Chandith wrote: :deu: Hast du einen Sohn oder Tochter↗? / Haben Sie einen Sohn oder Tochter↗?
For me and my sister (I asked her) sound this sentence very strange.

But maybe do you think this one is ok:
:deu: Hast du irgendeinen Sohn oder irgendeine Tochter?
Sanareĥo hama ya sanoya.("live the moment")

native :deu:
maybe fluent :eng:
translateable :lat:
learning :fin:
my conlang: :con: Vanaya

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Omzinesý
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Re: Tea or Coffee?

Post by Omzinesý » 29 Mar 2011 19:49

There seems to be two different words for 'or' in Finnish and Polish. Germanic languages make it with particles and intonation.

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Ear of the Sphinx
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Re: Tea or Coffee?

Post by Ear of the Sphinx » 29 Mar 2011 21:11

The Polish phrase can be rewritten as:
:pol: Czy chcesz kawy, czy herbaty? (*)
:pol: Czy chcesz kawy lub herbaty?
"Czy" is an interrogative particle.
"Lub" is standard disjunction.

*) I use genitive~partitive here. Accusative can be used.
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Chandith
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Re: Tea or Coffee?

Post by Chandith » 29 Mar 2011 23:36

tev wrote:
Chandith wrote: :deu: Hast du einen Sohn oder Tochter↗? / Haben Sie einen Sohn oder Tochter↗?
For me and my sister (I asked her) sound this sentence very strange.
Well of course, I've forgotten the second indefinite article. Stupid copy and paste ...

And by the way, what precious German syntax in your English sentence :-P
tev wrote:
Chandith wrote: :deu: Hast du irgendeinen Sohn oder irgendeine Tochter?
No, that sounds like there are different kinds of sons and daughters ... one could use these with the coffee and tea though.

aereastra
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Re: Tea or Coffee?

Post by aereastra » 30 Mar 2011 13:18

:jpn: お茶 とか コーヒー  なさいますか? 「Lit: Tea and/or coffee, order?」
:jpn: お茶   コーヒー  なさいますか? 「Lit: Tea? Coffee? Order any?」
:jpn: 息子 とか 娘  ありますか?  「Lit: Son and/or Daughter, have?」
:jpn: 息子   娘  ありますか?  「Lit: Son? Daughter? Have any?」

ローマ字で:
O-cha toka kōhī ni nasaimasu ka?
O-cha ka kōhī ka nasaimasu ka?
Musuko toka musume ga arimasu ka?
Musuko ka musume ka arimasu ka?

違うと思う。ちがえれば、修正して下さい。
ありがとうございます。

「とか」(Toka) is more of a one or the other particle in Japanese, similar to either-or, whereas 「か」(ka) is more asking an option here.
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Re: Tea or Coffee?

Post by Khemehekis » 10 Apr 2011 20:38

Kankonian:
Czwartek wrote::eng: Would you like tea or coffee? (where p1 assumes that p2 would like a hot drink, and the correct answer is either 'tea' or 'coffee')
Ar fuiras tzin hing tzeimoa?
you want+PRESENT tea or? coffee
:eng: Would you like (any) tea or coffee? (where p1 is asking p2 whether they would like a hot drink, and the correct answer is either 'yes' or 'no')
Mahan ar fuiras tzin o tzeimoa?
do? you want+PRESENT tea or coffee
:eng: Do you have sons or daughters? (where p1 assumes that p2 has children, and the correct answer is either 'sons' or 'daughters')
Ar sinas yedes hing sharas?
you have+PRESENT son+PLURAL or? daughter+PLURAL
:eng: Do you have (any) sons or daughters? (where p1 is asking whether p2 has children, and and correct answer is either 'yes' or 'no')
Mahan ar sinas yedes o sharas?
do? you have+PRESENT son+PLURAL or daughter+PLURAL
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Pirka
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Re: Tea or Coffee?

Post by Pirka » 10 Apr 2011 22:23

aereastra wrote: :jpn: 息子 とか 娘  ありますか?  「Lit: Son and/or Daughter, have?」
:jpn: 息子   娘  ありますか?  「Lit: Son? Daughter? Have any?」
These should be います because sons and daughters are humans.

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Re: Tea or Coffee?

Post by LesserCure » 13 Apr 2011 16:51

:tur: Çay kahve mi istersiniz? (Çay/Kahve)
:tur: Çay veya kahve ister misiniz? (Yes/No)
:tur: Oğlunuz mu kızınız var? (Oğlum/Kızım)
:tur: Oğlunuz veya kızınız var ? (Yes/No)

Note: "mi"(mı/mi/mu/mü according to the vowel harmony) is the question word in Turkish and "veya" means "or".

Iyionaku
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Re: Tea or Coffee?

Post by Iyionaku » 08 Dec 2017 11:15

:con: Yélian

Like many other languages, Yélian distinguishes two types of "or" for that. ù is used as an exclusive or and ùpa as inclusive or.

Barcai ditolvainu reselan ù garesif?
[ˈbaɾkɛɪ̯ dɨˈtɔ̈lvaɪ̯nu ɾəˈseːlɐn ʉ xɐˈɾeːsɨ]
ask-1SG COND=gift-COND.INV.2SG tea XOR coffee
Would you like tea or coffee?

Barcai ditolvainu reselan ùpa garesif?
[ˈbaɾkɛɪ̯ dɨˈtɔ̈lvaɪ̯nu ɾəˈseːlɐn ˈʉpɐ xɐˈɾeːsɨ]
ask-1SG COND=gift-COND.INV.2SG tea or coffee
Would you like (any) tea or coffee?

Barcai bei naporan ù nepian?
[ˈbaɾkaɪ̯ bɛɪ̯ ˈnaːpɔ̈ɾɐn ʉ ˈneːpɪ̯ɐn]
ask-1SG have-2SG son-PL XOR daughter-PL
Do you have sons or daughters?

Barcai bei naporan ùpa nepian?
[ˈbaɾkaɪ̯ bɛɪ̯ ˈnaːpɔ̈ɾɐn ˈʉpɐ ˈneːpɪ̯ɐn]
ask-1SG have-2SG son-PL or daughter-PL
Do you have (any) sons or daughters?
Wipe the glass. This is the usual way to start, even in the days, day and night, only a happy one.

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Re: Tea or Coffee?

Post by Iyionaku » 08 Dec 2017 11:42

:con: Caelian

Caelian uses three constructions for "or" (actually there are even more, but only two matter for this challenge): inclusive or between nouns is expressed with the particle ubye (cognate to Yélian ùpa), while XOR between nouns is expressed with the equative case at the second noun, followed by suffixaufnahme of the first noun's case. "to drink tea" and "to drink coffee" are independent verbs in Caelian (although they are formed from the same roots as simply "tea" (*g-ts-j) and "coffee" (*g-rr-s)). Verbal phrases are either connected with ubye, just like nouns, or with the particle ür for XOR. The particle "tag" marks polar questions and cannot be used for other questions, as "barcai" in Yélian is.

I only noted now that you don't have to use "ubye" in the last sentence, it's clear from context.

Zanëz gitsajbeil ür girrasbeil?
[tʰag zaˈnəs gitʒajˈbɛɪ̯l yɾ girasˈbɛɪ̯l]
POT 2SG.VOC drink_tea.2SG-VOL XOR drink_coffee.2SG-VOL
Would you like tea or coffee?

Tag Zanëz gitsajbeil ubye girrasbeil?
[tʰag zaˈnəs gitʒajˈbɛɪ̯l uˈbʲɛ girasˈbɛɪ̯l]
POT 2SG.VOC drink_tea.2SG-VOL or drink_coffee.2SG-VOL
Would you like (any) tea or coffee?

Zan nopamurih napamorejur berye?
[zan nɔpʰamuˈrih napʰamɔreˈjuɾ beɾˈjɛ]
2SG.NOM son.PL.COM daughter.PL.EQU-COM COP.2SG>3PLINDEF
Do you have sons or daughters?

Zan nopamurih napamuri berye?
[zan nɔpʰamuˈrih napʰamuˈri beɾˈjɛ]
2SG.NOM son.PL.COM daughter.PL.COM COP.2SG>3PLDEF
Do you have sons or daughters?
Wipe the glass. This is the usual way to start, even in the days, day and night, only a happy one.

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Re: Tea or Coffee?

Post by Iyionaku » 08 Dec 2017 14:41

:con: Ular

你得择茶择咖啡饮抓忈?
Má tā ngā tă ngā kápháj khūr?
2SG TOP XOR tea XOR coffee would_like
Would you like tea or coffee?

你得茶咖啡饮抓忈你?
Má tā tă kápháj khūr má?
2SG TOP tea coffee would_like 2SG
Would you like (any) tea or coffee?

你得择子仆择儿女仆园?
Má tā ngā lhà táng ngā rhánjón táng ù?
2SG TOP XOR son PL XOR daughter PL have
Do you have sons or daughters?

你得子儿女仆园你?
Má tā lhà rhánjón táng ù má?
2SG TOP son daughter PL have
Do you have sons or daughters?
Wipe the glass. This is the usual way to start, even in the days, day and night, only a happy one.

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Re: Tea or Coffee?

Post by Reyzadren » 10 Dec 2017 00:57

:con: griuskant (without the conscript)

skuya kae ur sevk?
/'skuja 'ke ur 'səvk/
want-V tea or coffee
Want some tea or coffee?

skuya erdask urva?
/'skuja 'ərdask urva/
want-V water Q
Want some water?
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Re: Tea or Coffee?

Post by Iyionaku » 11 Dec 2017 09:05

:chn: Mandarin

I don't really have a clue how to translate the second and fourth sentence. My guess is X 还是 Y 吗, because my understanding is that 吗 turns everything before it into a polar question, but I'm not sure about it. Another option which sounds more evident to me would be Verb 不 Verb X 还是 Y. I'm looking forward to corrections.

您想茶还是咖啡?
Nín xiǎng chá háishì kāfēi?
[nin˧˥ ɕi̯aŋ˨˩ ͡tʂʰa˧˥ xaɪ̯˧˥ʂɹ̩˥˩ kʰa˥feɪ̯˥]
2SG.HON want tea or coffee
Would you like tea or coffee?

您想不想茶还是咖啡?
Nín xiǎng bù xiǎng chá háishì kāfēi?
[nin˧˥ ɕi̯aŋ˨˩ pu˥ ɕi̯aŋ˨˩ ͡tʂʰa˧˥ xaɪ̯˧˥ʂɹ̩˥˩ kʰa˥feɪ̯˥]
2SG.HON want NEG want tea or coffee
Would you like (any) tea or coffee or not?

你有一些儿子还是女儿?
Nǐ yǒu érzǐ háishì nǚ'ér?
[ni˧˦ jɔʊ̯˨˩ aɚ̯˧˥ t͡sɹ̩˨˩ xaɪ̯˧˥ʂɹ̩˥˩ ny˨˩aɚ̯˧˥]
2SG have son or daughter
Do you have sons or daughters?

你有没有儿子还是一些女儿?
Nǐ yǒu méiyǒu érzǐ háishì nǚ'ér?
[ni˧˦ jɔʊ̯˨˩ meɪ̯˧˥jɔʊ̯˨˩ aɚ̯˧˥ t͡sɹ̩˨˩ xaɪ̯˧˥ʂɹ̩˥˩ ny˨˩aɚ̯˧˥]
2SG have NEG have son or daughter
Do you have (any) sons or daughters?
Wipe the glass. This is the usual way to start, even in the days, day and night, only a happy one.

Iyionaku
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Re: Tea or Coffee?

Post by Iyionaku » 11 Dec 2017 09:13

:con: Bath'aso

As always, Orkish uses assumptions instead of morphological questions. The difference is done that in the first case, not the word for "or", grt, is used, but instead the negative aspect for the second option. You basically say "You surely want tea, not coffee." and in the other case "You surely want tea or coffee."

Shels ishtikz tsha zar kapi.
[ʂɛls ˈiʂtikz̥ ͡tʂɑ zɑɾ ˈkapi]
POT want=2SG.ERG tea.ABS NEG coffee.ABS
Do you want tea or coffee?

Shels ishtikz tsha grt kapi.
[ʂɛls ˈiʂtikz̥ ͡tʂɑ ͡gɣ̩t ˈkapi]
POT want=2SG.ERG tea.ABS or coffee.ABS
Do you want tea or coffee?

Shels kralsokz tħommktu zar iptti.
[ʂɛls ˈkrɑlsɔkz̥ ˈtˤʌmːktɯ zɑɾ ˈiptːi]
POT have=2SG.ERG son-PL-ABS NEG daughter-PL-ABS
Do you have sons or daughters?

Shels kralsokz tħommktu grt iptti.
[ʂɛls ˈkrɑlsɔkz̥ ˈtˤʌmːktɯ ͡gɣ̩t ˈiptːi]
POT have=2SG.ERG son-PL-ABS or daughter-PL-ABS
Do you have (any) sons or daughters?
Wipe the glass. This is the usual way to start, even in the days, day and night, only a happy one.

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