Dictionary

If you're new to these arts, this is the place to ask "stupid" questions and get directions!
Post Reply
User avatar
Omzinesý
runic
runic
Posts: 2639
Joined: 27 Aug 2010 07:17
Location: nowhere [naʊhɪɚ]

Dictionary

Post by Omzinesý » 07 Nov 2011 11:50

I have found that Exel isn't the best program to make a dictionary with words that contain several meaning and have no one-to-one correspondence to their native counterparts.
What program would be better?

Yes, the topic has already been discussed somewhere.

User avatar
Sankon
sinic
sinic
Posts: 395
Joined: 12 Aug 2010 01:06
Location: At the computer

Re: Dictionary

Post by Sankon » 07 Nov 2011 14:29

Lexique Pro seems to be a somewhat popular choice.

User avatar
masako
mayan
mayan
Posts: 2009
Joined: 12 Aug 2010 15:42
Location: 가매
Contact:

Re: Dictionary

Post by masako » 07 Nov 2011 20:35

What is it exactly that doesn't suit your needs in Excel? I have found it to be indispensable with regards to sorting and keeping track of changes. As for "words that contain several meaning" and "have no one-to-one correspondence to their native counterparts" I would ask for an example or four, because I have no issue with entries like:

tsaya - n; u - used to express anger, irritation, disappointment, annoyance, contempt (damn)

And unless I am misreading your post, that's exactly the type of entry you describe.

And as neat as Lexique Pro is, it can also be a bit unwieldy as well as not ideal for beginners.

User avatar
masako
mayan
mayan
Posts: 2009
Joined: 12 Aug 2010 15:42
Location: 가매
Contact:

Re: Dictionary

Post by masako » 07 Nov 2011 20:47

Image

This is just a sample of my excel file for Kala. If you like, I can do a work up for you and show you how to maintain it so that your data not only stays accurate and helpful, but that you can sort you lexicon in multiple ways.

User avatar
Maximillian
greek
greek
Posts: 667
Joined: 12 Aug 2010 19:33
Location: Israel
Contact:

Re: Dictionary

Post by Maximillian » 07 Nov 2011 21:08

sano wrote:This is just a sample of my excel file for Kala. If you like, I can do a work up for you and show you how to maintain it so that your data not only stays accurate and helpful, but that you can sort you lexicon in multiple ways.
Please do! I have had a lot of difficulties with any computer-based dictionaries, until I decided to do all my lexicons in a notebook. :roll:
UNUS•ET•UNICUS

User avatar
Xing
MVP
MVP
Posts: 5311
Joined: 22 Aug 2010 17:46

Re: Dictionary

Post by Xing » 07 Nov 2011 22:49

Omzinesý wrote:I have found that Exel isn't the best program to make a dictionary with words that contain several meaning and have no one-to-one correspondence to their native counterparts.
What program would be better?

Yes, the topic has already been discussed somewhere.
Are you thinking about many-to-many correspondence?

User avatar
Jádyndár
rupestrian
rupestrian
Posts: 18
Joined: 22 Oct 2011 05:09
Location: In the aviary, studying trees

Re: Dictionary

Post by Jádyndár » 07 Nov 2011 23:02

sano wrote:As for "words that contain several meaning" and "have no one-to-one correspondence to their native counterparts" I would ask for an example or four
Unless I've misunderstood, I think the OP means words more along the lines of the ones in your own dictionary that have multiple meanings separated by semicolons (the same convention I use in my Gomain dictionary, incidentally) - entries like the one for tsala. I think the OP is looking for a way to put those different meanings into different cells, which IMO would make searching easier (I'd like to do that for my own dictionary, as well). In other words, instead of having a single column for all the possible meanings of a word, there might be multiple columns, each containing a single meaning, or something like that.

As an aside, I'm fascinated by your Kala dictionary. I can figure out what some of the columns are for, but I'd be interested to learn about all of them.
Native: :usa:
Proficient: :ita:
Limited knowledge: :ell: (Ancient) :jpn: :deu: :esp: :fra: :heb: :lat: :ara: :cab:
Creator of: :con: Gomain
Resident of: :cali:

User avatar
masako
mayan
mayan
Posts: 2009
Joined: 12 Aug 2010 15:42
Location: 가매
Contact:

Re: Dictionary

Post by masako » 08 Nov 2011 00:47

Maximillian wrote:Please do!
OK. Please, bear with me.
Jádyndár wrote:I think the OP is looking for a way to put those different meanings into different cells
Well...simply put, in the H column of my sample, he [the OP] puts each desired meaning in whatever cell - of that row - then sorts them by using a column to the left or right with the same lexical entry, ie:

Image

You'll note that column E is a root word. This helps to keep roots sorted and makes dictionaries sortable by meaning, lexeme or root.

Jádyndár wrote:I can figure out what some of the columns are for, but I'd be interested to learn about all of them.
Column A: the vowels of the word, to include the ya ye yo as well as ua and ue diphthongs.

Column B: this is a code that replaces consonants with others not used in Kala and vowels with numerals and allows me to sort by the Kala "alphabetic order" [collating sequence] rather than English ABC's

Column C: this is the semantic role or thematic category of the main lexical entry [not necessarily the root]

Column D: this column exists solely to aid in the coding I need to make the formula for easy entry to my wiki, a sample of the code:

Code: Select all

="* "&"'''[["&D1&"/"&E1&"|"&F1&"]]'''"&" - "&"''"&G1&"''"&" - "&H1&" - "&"''"&I1&"''"
Column E: as mentioned, this is the root of the lexical entry [most entries are their own roots]

Column F: this is the lexical entry

Column G: this is the "part of speech" | p = particle / n = noun / u = verb; most words fall into 2 or all three categories

Column H: this is the English meaning

Column I: this is the language borrowed from [xxx = a priori]

Being able to sort from any one of these columns makes word construction and tracking a breeze and I have not found or seen any other program that works as well for conlanging.

Any questions?

User avatar
Hakaku
MVP
MVP
Posts: 302
Joined: 14 Aug 2010 23:36
Location: 常世

Re: Dictionary

Post by Hakaku » 08 Nov 2011 17:35

Quick question: If column A includes only the vowels of the word, how come "ekam" only features "a"? And how come in your first example you include apostrophes (presumably glottal stops?), but in the second, the vowels of "ha'i" are marked "ai" rather than "a'i"?

User avatar
masako
mayan
mayan
Posts: 2009
Joined: 12 Aug 2010 15:42
Location: 가매
Contact:

Re: Dictionary

Post by masako » 08 Nov 2011 23:15

Hakaku wrote:Quick question: If column A includes only the vowels of the word, how come "ekam" only features "a"? And how come in your first example you include apostrophes (presumably glottal stops?), but in the second, the vowels of "ha'i" are marked "ai" rather than "a'i"?
Well, you've caught me in the proverbial tight spot...those - simply put - are mistakes. Overlooked as I have made updates in the last few weeks.

*runs off to make corrections*

Thanks Hakaku.

User avatar
masako
mayan
mayan
Posts: 2009
Joined: 12 Aug 2010 15:42
Location: 가매
Contact:

Re: Dictionary

Post by masako » 08 Nov 2011 23:42

Here is a larger sample [corrections made].

Image

User avatar
Maximillian
greek
greek
Posts: 667
Joined: 12 Aug 2010 19:33
Location: Israel
Contact:

Re: Dictionary

Post by Maximillian » 09 Nov 2011 15:56

Thank you. I'll try to apply it to my conlangs as well.
UNUS•ET•UNICUS

User avatar
Ilaeriu
sinic
sinic
Posts: 313
Joined: 12 Aug 2010 01:42
Location: Canada, eh?

Re: Dictionary

Post by Ilaeriu » 20 Nov 2011 16:34

I was deeply in love with Lexique Pro. We were ready to move in with each other and everything.

Then one day it decided to stop working on me; I couldn't edit any entry without the program crashing. I was lucky enough to export the raw data of the database before it stopped working totally, and then I manually transferred the whole thing into a GoogleDocs spreadsheet. I really liked the interface and the fact that it was designed for creating dictionaries, so there were numerous ways to organize the information. It's just the trauma of nearly losing several dictionaries (I had one for each of my conlangs) that turned me off; if it's more stable now, I'd really like to try it again.
Image

(in order of proficiency from greatest to least)
Native :eng: | Fluent :tgl: | Learning :esp: · :kor: · :zho: · :qbc: | Want to learn :lat: · :jpn: · :ara:

Post Reply